Oetzi: was an asteroid responsible for his death?

Just when you think you've heard it all...

Oetzi: a sacrifice to the gods?

It's not an altogether silly thought, of course.
And we'll hear what the researchers have to say about it soon enough, anyway.


P.S. Sorry, didn't notice this was the "Mythical Beasts and Cryptozoology" forum.
(I just placed the post in the same thread with the earlier ones.)
Please, move it somewhere else for me.






[edit on 20-6-2008 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas



OK, does anyone here - perhaps a historic astronomy buff? - know more about the asteroid in question?

No, I a reasonably sure that the arrow in his back had something to do with his demise.

No, I am reasonably sure that the arrow in his back had something to do with his demise.

My old friend, Frozen Fritz (yes he sat behind me in 3rd grade ) isn't exactly a crypto or a mythical beast, so I think he'll get what he deserves in Ancient & Lost Civilizations. Moving.

reply to post by Gemwolf



In Fritz's name, I thank you.

(Not that he minds waiting that much... )

reply to post by punkinworks


Well, yes... but as I understand it, it is possible that it was used as a means to sacrifice him.

Not that I have much belief in the entire asteroid story, mind you.
I'd just like to know which asteroid that was - if people here know anything about it (or about the Mesopotamian tablet that is mentioned in the article) - so I can "research" it on my own, when I have nothing better to do.







[edit on 23-6-2008 by Vanitas]

reply to post by punkinworks


yeah, he was definitely murdered, but the reason behind his murder may have been the asteroid. Sort of like in many popular scfi stories where the populace panics and singles out a person for sacrifice.
So, if there was impact, it's not terribly unlikely. Maybe he was a loner, particularly skilled, or something the group figured as maliciouse or something.

reply to post by RuneSpider



One of the things I remember reading about him is that the musculature of his legs and feet was supposedly better developed than in his peers, suggesting that he spent more time (and, presumably, effort) than others walking the slopes of the mountains.

IF that is so (it's a big "if"), then he might have been something of an "outcast".

reply to post by Vanitas


I googled a bit (not much), and I see there was supposedly an asteroid impact on Gamskogel mountain and/or Koefels (Austria).

See Cuneiform tablets

and

A Sumerian Observation of the Koefels Impact?
(The latter - summarised by the author as "bull#" - also includes a link to a press release.)












[edit on 23-6-2008 by Vanitas]

It's unlikely.

You don't shoot at a sacrifice and let it run away. You take the victim to the place of the god and tie them up (or drug them to insensibility) and then kill them very efficiently. The gods hate it when their sacrifice runs away (Roman religion said that all animals who went to sacrifice must go willingly. If an animal struggled or escaped, the omens were evil and the sacrifice was halted and the animal freed.)

They also put objects with the sacrifice or place the body in a ritual position. In addition, there isn't just one sacrifice at a sacred spot, there are many.

reply to post by Byrd



I remember seeing a photo of an "altar".
(It was identified as such.)
But I think it was in the valley.

Anyway, I think it's unlikely, too.
Still, I'd love to hear the explanation that the author of the theory proposes.

reply to post by Byrd


I agree with you, Byrd, definately. Not knowing the circumstances, though, it's still possible that his death and murder was tied to the impact for some reason. Think of how irrational folks act today when they loose a loved one. Or maybe for some reason he was associated with it, or maybe he was a jerk and said the wrong thing. Dunno.
What was bugging me was his items. They were all left on him. The arrow, minus the head, was taken however. This wasn't a time when things were in excess, so it leaves two main reasons the items weren't taken, since the apparent blow to the head came after death. Meaning the obvious eanswer, the fellow or gal didn't want to show up with extra stuff, or they thought taking his stuff was against a code of some kind. Dunno.

Maybe he was running to avoid that fate?

But asteriods? None known to have hit in that time period AFAIK.

Based on my knowledge of human warfare I'd guess it would have been either a revenge killing, a reaction to a "zipper" problem or clan vs clan action.

Maybe he was running to avoid that fate?

But asteriods? None known to have hit in that time period AFAIK.

The thought - that he may have escaped - crossed my mind, too.
(Although it's still unlikely.)

As to the asteroid, I take it you don't buy the Gamskogel and/or Koefels "impact" theory (see above)?






[edit on 24-6-2008 by Vanitas]

What was bugging me was his items. They were all left on him. The arrow, minus the head, was taken however.

Yes, I find it somewhat puzzling, too.

There seems to be no doubt that he was not alone at the time surrounding his death (he couldn't have pulled the arrow out of his shoulder blade by himself).

I remember reading a possible explanation for the missing arrow (minus the head): that it might have been marked in a special way (tribe marks?), and the one who shot him didn't want it to be identified.

It reads a bit too much like a Sherlock Holmes story.
But then... what do I know?

As to the asteroid, I take it you don't buy the Gamskogel and/or Koefels "impact" theory (see above)?

oops my error, I meant to say I didn't think those impacts would have had any influence on Ozti, or didn't happen in his lifetime not that those events didn't occur.

Although only one body was found, I suspect their may have been a larger number of people involved. O may have been retreating/been in a rout from a earlier encounter.

The possibilities are open-ended.

The evidence is pretty clear that Otzi died of wounds recieved in combat,
He had wounds other than the arrow in the back.
The angle of the wound indicates that the arrow was fired from below and behind, just as if someone was being chased up hill and shot at.
He had the blood of 3-4 indivuals on his clothes, the blood of one individual, was in a pattern that indicated that the individual was carried by Otzi.
I believe that the arrow head that was imbeded in Otzi's lung was not of a pattern common to his people.

He was born north of the Alps in Austria, yet lived south of the Alps in Italy most of his life,
He died just shy of the crest, he was trying to make it "home".

My personal theory is that, Otzi was of the ruling class of a tribe or group of tribes. These people were Austrian in descent, but found a nice home at lower elevations in Italy.
I think that when they arrived they drove off the earlier inhabitants with their superior weapons, Yew wood long bows. Weapons that would not see an equal till the Welsh bowmen of the middle ages.
It is klnown that he lived most of his life in a place that has been inhabited for 17,000 years.
The knoll where his village was, is a ledge on a mountainside 500' above the valley floor. from this place you can see many miles down the valley, making it easy to defend.
I think that there are two possibilities, 1) that Otzi and his people had subjugated the earlier peoples and they revolted and drove the austrians back to the north.
OR
the more likely
2)That the austrians had found this place by chance while it was uninhabited and moved in.
Then the mediterranian peoples started to move in from the south and drove them out.
The tribes of the italian penninsula would then proceed to chase the celtic peoples of austria, all the way to the british Isles

Great speculation P, somewhere there is a forum dedicated to people who discuss the Otzi questions. Are you part of that?

reply to post by punkinworks



Please, tell me you're joking...
Austria? Italy?
Austrians? Italians...?

First of all, Europe can only be divided - more or less accurately, that is - into regions, not countries.
(The political boundaries are, and have been throughout history, FAR too arbitrary to really mean anything.)
And that's exactly what contemporary European policies are geared towards, with a very good reason.

The people who live in the region called Tyrol - in very recent times divided into Tirol (Austria) and the Alto Adige (Italy) - can only be called Tyroleans. Ethnically, the population is very mixed (except for a few valleys), but the predominant family language is German, with the according cultural self-identification.
(It's the truth, as anyone who is familiar with the reality "on the ground" - I am - could attest. I am certainly not going to discuss this any further - it's off-topic, thank God. )

But at the time, not even the term "Tyrolean" could apply, except as a joke.
We're talking about the Europe of thousands of years ago, when even the continent didn't have its present name!

Anyway, his DNA seems to indicate a Ladino origin, according to this study, which has the added bonus of confirming the plausibility of the "outcast" theory.

To anyone interested in this subject I would recommend Mallory's book In Search of the Indo-Europeans.











[edit on 26-6-2008 by Vanitas]