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Schoolboy hacker Omar Khan who upped his grades faces 38 years in jail

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posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by A curious cat
 


Ooooooooooo... So GLAD you asked!

You see, people started off with two types of murderers. On purpose, and OOPS!

Well, then people started having all sorts of differing types of murders, some of which were nasty, and others which were in the grey area between On purpose, and OOPS!

Add things like sane or not sane, temporarily insane, blacked out, hired out, really drunk, not drunk enough, really angry, really sad, planned it out, didn't plan squat, used a deadly weapon, used a deadlier weapon, made your body the weapon, made parts of their bodies into weapons, ate part of their bodies, lost all of their body, hid it, admitted it, lied about it in court or in the street, was the person black asian or gay, and whether or not you really meant to do it at all.

Once the distinction was made between murder, and killing someone, and everything I wrote up there ^, there began to be a different value of punishment. This made not only the question of murder for a jury to decide, but also to what the state of mind was for both victim and accused.

This is not even taking into account the worry that most on the jury carry of wrongfully imprisoning someone. that is definitely exploited by the defense. See my point? Murderers don't go to jail for as long as hackers, because hacking is so cut and dry. this doesn't mean that they belong in the same prison though.

But my views on prison reform are for another time and thread.




posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by deadline527
 




Seriously? Did you not read the poster who pointed out the affect this has on other kids in that school? It is an elite school, Ivy leagues will take note.


Ok, so he ruined his reputation.



And why do you all sit here and defend something you know is wrong?


Its wrong, but not 40 years in jail wrong. You probably are one of them people who thinks music downloaders should go to jail as well and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines, because thats the same as going into a store and stealing the CDs at gun point, right?



So you can hack my #, so what?
Is that meant to be a threat?


Where did I ever say I can hack your stuff? I stated how easy it is to get into some servers using zero day code. I never once threatened or directed it towards anyone.



What if I broke into your house? Burned your passport, all your ID's, took ALL your money and then ruined your credit while buying electronics with your future earnings? And then fried your PC to boot.


Then I would expect you to be in jail, and I agree, I would be quite pissed. But, did this kid do ANY of that? Not one of the activities you named did this person do. If he was involved in identity theft then that totally changes his motives, same as if he did it to purposely destroy the computers - neither of which he did.



You say this kid hurt no one? What about the kids that are all MESSED UP in these schools, because they want to make something of their lives, and they spend all 4 years of high school, studying their butts off, (you cannot place a value on that time) Only to have this punk STEAl the same grades they earned. And when he is caught, ALL of YOUR HARD WORK is now thrown into question!


How in the hell did this kids actions mess up all the other kids in the school? People cheat, some get caught and some dont. Its been happening since schools have been in service and never has it once messed up the whole school. I think this kid should be charged the same as anyone else who has went into a teachers grade book and changed his grades.



Are you with the same group that thinks high school bullies build character, and parents shouldn't swat their kids?


Where did that come from? That has nothing to do with the discussion.



He will never, ever get the time sentenced.
But I will bring up this point. How many kids did the Record companies have to go after to stop most casual illegal downloads?


They will never stop it, because in order to stop illegal downloading, you would have to stop the legal downloading as well. I do not condone illegal downloading or piracy either, and while I do agree they should be punished, the courts are ruining peoples lives over downloading a CD. The crime does not fit the punishment by far.



How many kids will learn from this selfish idiot?


None. Kids are quite creative and if they want to do something they are going to do it no matter what. It will only teach them to be more careful, or to be more destructive. If this kid would have changed EVERY students information instead of only a few then he would have never been caught. Now they will just either delete ALL the grades to hide within the chaos it causes.



Stop making excuses for the losers that populate this country. What he did was selfish, and wrong, and he knew it. His history shows his level of respect for authority.


Agreed, although I am making no excuses. I am merely stating that a child should not get such a punishment for that crime. He made mistake, and should be punished - which I am quite sure he already has ruined his reputation, record, and chances at college - but what they were asking for was much too excessive for changing some grades.



You cheer him, when he has shown you that when he is older, he could do far, far worse.


I cheer him? How so? I was only stating that when people do things on the internet, they do not think of the consequences like someone else committing a typical crime would. Someone running a program to gain access to a computer is not going to think of the same penalty as someone who goes out at night to kick down a door, walk around a house checking things out, only to leave without touching anything.


[edit on 20-6-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


You actually proved my point. Kids will get more creative. And if you don't think that changing grades is a big deal, or breaking into school admin, then just realize one thing; All of this sentencing is going to run consecutively, meaning all his total prison adds up to the 40 years. But he will serve 2-3 years, which is fair.

Please don't defend music down loaders. Just because your generation( I am assuming there, my apologies) figured out a better way to steal, and peer pressured people into it, doesn't make it any more rational. Change the laws if you don't want me mad at the criminals.

And in case I'm sounding angry, I'm not. Cheers!



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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The reaction to this story is just another example to me as to how the general public has been trained to be ignorant.
I am not calling anyone here ignorant, I am just using the word to illustrate my point.

With in the title of the OP, there is the word "faces". Nowhere does it say "tried", "convicted" or "sentenced to".

Upon following the link and reading the article, I have learned that he is facing 69 charges. I would assume if you tag all of the maximum time each count carries and add them up consecutively on would com eup with a nice number like 38 years.

The media will never have a follow up story in the same standard of the original stating what the out come was. We, the ignorant general public are left with the impression that this guy has gotten 38 years for changing his grades.

Some of us will shudder in fear, thinking what a horrible thing this hacking is and he must have gotten what he deserved. Others, will be out raged at how things are going to the toilet yada yada yada.

Things like this, simple little stories, there only purpose is too leave us all dazed and confused.

I hope some one sees the bigger picture I'm painting here...



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by mantic
 


I'm with you.

I agree that he will get a much shorter sentence.

Sensationalism sells, especially here on ATS!



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by deadline527
 


You actually proved my point. Kids will get more creative. And if you don't think that changing grades is a big deal, or breaking into school admin, then just realize one thing; All of this sentencing is going to run consecutively, meaning all his total prison adds up to the 40 years. But he will serve 2-3 years, which is fair.

Please don't defend music down loaders. Just because your generation( I am assuming there, my apologies) figured out a better way to steal, and peer pressured people into it, doesn't make it any more rational. Change the laws if you don't want me mad at the criminals.

And in case I'm sounding angry, I'm not. Cheers!


You are correct about the generation, twenty four years of age to be exact. And while I do not support illegal downloading, some of the people younger then me barely know what its like to even go to the store and buy a CD. I still enjoy buying the actual disc, because I love the little booklet that comes with the it, as well as having the real copy of such music means you are supporting the bands you enjoy. I do think they should offer more music for download at a reasonable price, and people wouldn't be so inclined to go to such great lengths to find ways to obtain it without paying. When gas is so expensive though, who has money to buy CD's any more though?


And no, you do not seem mad - actually you come across as rational. You believe the laws were put there for a reason and you defend them. There is nothing wrong with that at all. On the other hand, I believe that while MOST laws are there for a reason, some are strictly to increase revenue, create criminals, and keep the American public as limited as possible. I have a feeling when my generation comes of age to run as senate, representatives, and congress leaders - we will see quite a few laws changed due to the lifestyle we have been raised according to. Does this make it wrong? No. It just means that times change, and certain things should be changed to accommodate such.

You do bring up very good points, but I also respectfully disagree with some as well, nothing wrong with that.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


And I am also with you!

My walls are covered in LPs right now, and I have so many early 90's albums on disc that rock. Seriously, Pearl Jams early albums?

And I wish I could buy a digital song once, and use it on all my stuff. But the changes will come!

And I hope that your generation DOES change the laws to fit your views. Just hopefully they are well thought out laws. But thats what our system is supposed to be about!



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by deadline527
 


And I am also with you!

My walls are covered in LPs right now, and I have so many early 90's albums on disc that rock. Seriously, Pearl Jams early albums?

And I wish I could buy a digital song once, and use it on all my stuff. But the changes will come!

And I hope that your generation DOES change the laws to fit your views. Just hopefully they are well thought out laws. But thats what our system is supposed to be about!



Perl Jam concert was yesterday actually, I diddnt go but a few friends did.

Anyway, in relation to hacking and the topic, the reason I see this sentence as too long is that while growing up throughout my "internet life", I knew many people who were put in jail for cracking military and government computers, and they diddnt even receive anywhere near 40 years. Granted this was about ten to twelve years ago, some of them were released within a year or two, while the others were sentenced to being barred from internet activity for quite some time.

Case in point, there is a lot of punishments that could be put on the offender other then ruining his life because of something he did on the internet. Again, many people do not think of it as being so serious when it actually is because its on a computer. Now, if they do it a second time... throw the book at them, but they should try to help non-violent offenders instead of punishments that basically ruin their futures.

He was wrong. Nothing will argue that fact, and while you are correct that nowhere does it say sentenced or convicted, it still seems a bit steep. But then again, you are correct when you said the media thrives on sensationalism.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by mantic
 



Very good point, and you are right, 'wind 'em up and watch 'em go!

I will have be more careful in future and not take the bait so quickly. It is though one of the subjects that gets me really fired up.

JASONJNELSON

I would think you are one of the 'line 'em up and shoot 'em' all brigade? So glad you made no mistakes in your life



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:38 PM
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Hmm interesting story.

Maybe the kid got F's because he ditched school to learn on his own. After all, kids waste their entire day in classrooms just to get homework, then go home and teach themselves.

Teachers don't teach anymore, they just hand out paper work that you use to teach yourself at home. Smarter people see the skills they need to survive, and they learn those skills instead. It's called survival of the fittest. You aren't teaching people to fly, you are teaching them how to eat.

But ask yourself, did he hack the school, or did he hack his mind?


[edit on 20-6-2008 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by A curious cat

JASONJNELSON

I would think you are one of the 'line 'em up and shoot 'em' all brigade? So glad you made no mistakes in your life


You know, I have never seen my name in such bold print before! I like it!

Hmmmm... Well, I have written a well thought out essay on prison and Justice reforms, and it is included in a series of ten essays that I want to unleash on the world through this site. I wouldn't want to butcher it by quoting from it now, but suffice to say, if I am ever on good terms with Springer again, I will show you what I believe to be an appropriate level of punishment and rehabilitation.

Until that time, I can say this;
I am not perfect. I have messed up in my life, and gotten away with it at times.

I am also the victim of all the worst crimes there are. Most deeds against me went unpunished.

But to allow either to permeate my idea of what is fair justice would be unfair.

So all I am left with is to hope that in order for our system to be reformed, one must first make it work as it is.

I am sorry if you took that as bait. I thought that my reply to you was actually clever and amusing. But not as amusing as writing my name REAL BIG.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by jasonjnelson]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 12:06 AM
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Yeah, this whole thing is absurd. Maybe they should send this kid to the judge that gave this chick 16 years for murder of an innocent person claiming she was the devil....

blogs.ocweekly.com...

Then maybe he'd get less time....or maybe he should claim he's the devil, i think that's the lesson here, according to the US Judicial system.


[edit on 6/21/2008 by Mad_Hatter]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 12:31 AM
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I think the Prosecutor is using the media to exaggerate the story. 38 years is the maximum possible if convicted in court and all run consecutively.

The punk will be offered a plea bargain that will probably be more appropriate, but the guy is going to do a few years and he should for his crimes.


Think about it he's being charged with breaking the law at least 69 different ways. He is no genius, he broke into the school building and stole enough information to access the network with administrative passwords - no different than someone breaking in to a bankers home to steal the key to the vault or the password to the bank network.

Hundreds of peoples jobs & students futures were on that network - he is no Ferris Bueller. He did damage & by slapping his hand others will attempt to do more damage if they see that they can get away with it. He did not just change a few grades he stole exams & it sounds like he sold or traded computer access or exam access for money or favors.

38 years is over the top, but any less than a few years would only encourage further attempts.

Since he didn't learn how to follow the rules in school, now he will be schooled in prison where he belongs.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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Since he didn't learn how to follow the rules in school, now he will be schooled in prison where he belongs.


And we all know how well they teach anatomy in prison



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:08 AM
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Ok the kid did something very stupid and very wrong. However lets look at the situation.

The kid was smart but lazy, that's a common thing amongst very intelligent teenagers. He was under a lot of pressure, caved in and used his skills for something that should not have been done. He deserves punishment, and he will get it, he doesn't however deserve a prison sentence that is longer than that given to some murderers. Rapists, paedophiles and murderers, all of these people are worse than this kid and yet lots of them get shorter sentences.

Does a kid who changed his grade deserve a longer sentence than a paedophile or a predatory rapist? Ask yourself that seriously. He should be given a few years, hell even Kevin Mitnick got a shorter sentence than this! Take a look at what Mitnick did, just study his crimes and then look at his sentence. He got far less time than this kid is going to get.

Come on, for all those out there baying for this kids blood, you don't understand hacking, you don't understand the people who do it and when you hear hacker you immediately jump on the government pulled bandwagon.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 06:55 AM
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The least you can expect bout' a kiddie that knows how to use an exploit is to realise F's to A's will sound strange to his teachers... second is DELETE THE F'CKING LOGS Einstein...



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson


JASONJNELSON




You know, I have never seen my name in such bold print before! I like it!

Hmmmm... Well, I have written a well thought out essay on prison and Justice reforms, and it is included in a series of ten essays that I want to unleash on the world through this site. I wouldn't want to butcher it by quoting from it now, but suffice to say, if I am ever on good terms with Springer again, I will show you what I believe to be an appropriate level of punishment and rehabilitation.



Glad you are not really perfect

Strangely enough I was going ask if you would be starting a thread on prison reforms, I hope you do as I would be genuinely interested.

My previous comment was a little tongue in cheek, but the big letters were from the heart



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by Grafilthy
Here is a thread I think is relevant....
Guy hacks NASA...

In both cases I feel they are going overboard. If rapists and murderers are looking at less than 20 years....

Why are they treating hackers worse than the "real" criminals?
Are they more scared of intellectuals than monsters?

'Filthy,
They? Who is "they?" Would you have this same frame of mind if this hacker stole your identity, hacked into YOUR bank, stole the nest egg you prepared for your children AND your retirement income?
This kid had a taste of "success." The kind of damage this "intellectual" can do is limitless.
Tolerance has its limits.


Wilson.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 09:57 AM
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38 years is ridiculously silly. He should be punished of course but the punishment should fit the crime. A fine, community service, probation.. any or all of the above. Jail time for changing high school grades is a bit ridiculous.

What would this kid get out of bumping up his high school grades a bit? Not much, it'd just get him out of high school. And what is a high school diploma worth these days? Nothing.

I doubt this kid is an idiot who can't pass his classes, but rather someone who's unmotivated. I must admit that I can relate a little. Of course I'd never try to change my grades or anything like. I'm not much of a risk taker.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 02:51 PM
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i've done this on the RM NETWORKs lol, back in 1996 i believe or later, sure was easy to get in. double buffer problems, system login dely alot of things like this slow networking made it all possible to get in. by the way i've probably discovered the first hack for the RM network in history


RM networks are used all over the schooling systems back in the day. now they probably are still used but with super duper SSL lol

38 years for this, only in usa, i got only 2 years term, so i couldnt use the computers nearly 1.6months i was back on



you will always get caught, its just how the system is built, if its not the system that gets you caught then its your big mouth on irc


laters, don't hack, but do share on thepiratebay



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