Phoenix finds water!

Bright Chunks At Phoenix Lander's Mars Site Must Have Been Ice

June 19, 2008 -- Dice-size crumbs of bright material have vanished from inside a trench where they were photographed by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander four days ago, convincing scientists that the material was frozen water that vaporized after digging exposed it.

"It must be ice," said Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson. "These little clumps completely disappearing over the course of a few days, that is perfect evidence that it's ice. There had been some question whether the bright material was salt. Salt can't do that."

The chunks were left at the bottom of a trench informally called "Dodo-Goldilocks" when Phoenix's Robotic Arm enlarged that trench on June 15, during the 20th Martian day, or sol, since landing. Several were gone when Phoenix looked at the trench early today, on Sol 24.

This is huge, huge news. Congrats to the Phoenix team!

Really? I thought there is ice on Mars.
Well congrats for the team then.

Awesome heads up for those of us too busy to read all the Phoenix updates nataylor! Star and flag for you

I figured they would find water/ice as we all did, I am just surprised they are admitting it openly, wow, that's spectacular! What a day, that warms my heart

I think most of us (including NASA) suspected this. It's nice to see it's semi-official now

Great news. Now what?

Great post! I am so glad people are keeping up with the Mars stories as they break. Thank you for posting this thread. ATS people rock! I remember my excitement in reading headlines the other day,"Ice or Salt" on Yahoo. Now this on ATS...excellent! I can't wait to hear what comes next.

Go Phoenix!

How do they know it's H20 ice and not CO2 ice? I thought that's what they were trying to determine....

Edit: Ah on reading the article there is no mention of water at all, only ice. I really hate thread titles that that don't match teh article quoted.

[edit on 19-6-2008 by Shere Khaan]

reply to post by Shere Khaan


Um... the first sentence of the first paragraph:

convincing scientists that the material was frozen water that vaporized after digging exposed it.

[edit on 19-6-2008 by nataylor]

reply to post by Shere Khaan


You have a good point...... did the substance subliminate into a gas, or did it evaporate?


To the OP, thanks much for this exciting news! I mean, I think many of us have and continue to believe that water -- in one form or another -- is present on Mars. I believe there is liquid water there, possibly more than imagined in the aquifer. I'd personally like to see some vadose zone drilling/testing -- nothing horrificly invasive, just a 1/4" probe, see what's down a dozen feet or so.

Really great to see this formally acknowledged by NASA. Perhaps the start of more? We can hope.

With the low atmospheric pressure and the low temperatures, even water ice (which is what this is, as the story says), would sublimate, not melt and then evaporate.

How can they be sure that aliens are not Fing with their heads?


It is presumptuous to claim the cubes have evaporated.
I thought they were going to test the water for signs of organics?

It amazes me that they did not make the microscope capable of looking for microbes. Or supply a simple culture tray to try and grow some local spores or something scientific. Instead they send back really fuzzy pictures. Can't NASA figure out how to focus a camera? How about AutoFocus? If they sent up my freakin cellphone they would have better pictures! They say they have a better camera, I wonder what they are waiting for?

Originally posted by nataylor
reply to post by Shere Khaan

 

Um... the first sentence of the first paragraph:

convincing scientists that the material was frozen water that vaporized after digging exposed it.

[edit on 19-6-2008 by nataylor]

I will grant you that. On further research it seems that teh air temperature where the lander is varies from -30 oC to -80 oC. Since the freezing point of CO2 on earth is about -78 oC and presumably lower on Mars given the thinner atmosphere; I guess only water ice should be present.

Still they offer no reasons why they are convinced it's water ice other than they dug it up and it appears to have evaporated.

[edit on 19-6-2008 by Shere Khaan]

I am firmly convinced that future, more comprehensive investigations will find clear signs of past advanced life on Mars. Possibly even current microbial life at greater depths within the soil.

Furthermore, I would not be surprised at all if artifacts of ancient civilizations were discovered.

Thoughts on these issues?

Originally posted by darkbluesky

Furthermore, I would not be surprised at all if artifacts of ancient civilizations were discovered.

Thoughts on these issues?

I am absolutely certain that artifacts of ancient civilizations already have been found, photograped and brought back from the moon, and that such artifacts also have been photographed on Mars.

Dear old NASA just forgot to tell us about it.

reply to post by Shere Khaan


There is more circumstantial evidence for there being water (ice) at that location. The Mars Global Surveyor orbiter discovered that hydrogen is abundant in that part of Mars, and scientists believe much of that hydrogen is in the form of H2O.

That is why the Phoenix landed where it did -- because NASA scientists EXPECTED to find water there. That was the major reason for choosing that landing site -- because NASA believes water ice DOES exist there. In fact I think that if they do NOT find water (ice) there, the scientists would be very disappointed.

As to more proof that there IS actually water there, besides the circumstantial evidence -- I think they will get that proof when they bake the soil in their ovens. According to lead researcher Peter Smith, Phoenix has exactly the right instruments to discern if water exists in the soil.


[edit on 6/20/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

Furthermore, I would not be surprised at all if artifacts of ancient civilizations were discovered.

i would be extremely surprised. Mars is a failed earth the best i think it could have done was microbial life. Its been in its current state for 4 billion years.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by yeti101]

Those of us older guys remember a time when there wasn't even any question as to whether there was water on Mars or not. Too bad not too many people remember this. Dig up some old science books that talk about Mars. They knew there was water on Mars, it wasn't even in dispute.

Originally posted by Cyberbian
Or supply a simple culture tray to try and grow some local spores or something scientific.

What should they put in the culture to feed the unknown martian microbes? How are we to know what a martian microbe would feed on and need for growth? How are we to know the optimum temperature for said growth? Culturing a completely unknown (and possibly non-existent or dead) microbe is a very tall order.

Instead they send back really fuzzy pictures. Can't NASA figure out how to focus a camera? How about AutoFocus?

They don't look fuzzy or out of focus to me...

If they sent up my freakin cellphone they would have better pictures!

A) I highly doubt that. B) I also doubt your phone's camera is hardened against the long-term radiation it would be exposed to on mars.

Liquid water is very different from frozen. To totally different states of being.

One Liquid... One Solid.

The Chemical properties need to studied before we start screaming "water" or "Carbon Dioxide" or "Gaseous Mercury"

Until a chemical analysis is taken of the ices found... there's no grounds for speculation to the positive or negative...

reply to post by coven


It's too warm there to be frozen carbon dioxide. It must be water ice.



[edit on 20-6-2008 by nataylor]

Yup I thought they knew there was ice?

ICE CAP


CLOSE UP

This kind of statement from NASA amazes me