NASA Explination of the "Mars Crab"

Never heard of the Coriolis force?? It is a force created by the rotation of a planet. Mars atmosphere might be thin but there are gases and particles in it anyway so, the rotation of mars will create movements in those gases and particles which will create wind and storms. Just like here on earth...

Umm, if this is the case, then the "winds" would be at a near constant rate.

to refer to Kano, the global jet stream cause the airflow over the deserts, because Earth is 70-90% covered in water and the bodies of water evaporate in a cycle that forms clouds and rainfall/snow/ice etc. Variable temperatures added to the orbit cycle of the planet cause the shifts in the airstream that cause weather changes and patterns

Since Mars has no precipitation that they tell us and the planet is very arrid and desolate (so they tell us) then there would be no cycles in the weather pattern, unless some noticeably disturbance on the ground or otherwise affected the airstream. Thus the "wind" should always be blowing at a measured rate and have definable periods of "heavy" and "light" wind patterns. As far as my understanding Mars "wind storms" have no predictable pattern and scientists have no idea what causes them.

The evaporation of water does not cause wind.

The coriolis effect doesn't cause wind either really, it does bend it though. Wind is caused by air flowing from high pressure areas to low pressure areas. As simple as that.

For more information.
www.weatherquestions.com...

There's life on mars. Period. Nothing more and nothing less. Get ready, we will meet them soon.

Look closely, I could be making it all up in my mind.

Doesn't it seem as if there is a "pebble" near the ear shadow that doesn't move while the ear itself moves. The ear moves from right to left and in an upward direction. So does the pebble. The shadow does not. The pebble and the ear moving in the same direction support the wind theory while the shadow not moving hurts it. Could the pebble have been added to help the wind theory and could this addition have altered the true image of the shadow?

Look further to the right of the pics and you'll be able to find a couple distinct "pebbles" that move from left to right in an upward direction. The general "feel" for motion in the right of the pics seems to be that of little objects being moved in the opposite direction of the wind that's moving the ear and pebble near the ear.

Heck, that little hose like "nose" in the front of the object looks fake and maybe even added on. I have no idea why that would be done. That part of the object must be really there cause I don't think NASA would want it to be seen either way. Why add an object that looks strange and why wouldn't it be deleted if the picture was altered. Something isn't right with that hose because it's there and then it can't be accounted for. It shrinks inside the mass of the object.

I keep looking at it and I see two different wind directions from the dirt/pebbles. Can anyone else see this or am I nuts? Nevermind, I already know I'm nuts but do you see it?

I am probably just looking way to hard. My guess is it's debri but something still doesn't seem right. Maybe NASA is just messing with the picture to see what we post and laugh at us

that picture is so pixelated and unclear what kind of technology is nasa useing outdated computers from 1995?

from what I can see it looks like the rover did what all rovers naturally do when they get let out to run on the sand

Since Mars has no precipitation that they tell us and the planet is very arrid and desolate (so they tell us) then there would be no cycles in the weather pattern, unless some noticeably disturbance on the ground or otherwise affected the airstream. Thus the "wind" should always be blowing at a measured rate and have definable periods of "heavy" and "light" wind patterns. As far as my understanding Mars "wind storms" have no predictable pattern and scientists have no idea what causes them.

It was by my understanding that Mars had poles on which there are white deposites furthermore known as snow or ice.
It is told that this snow ice consists of CO2 and water, is it not?
Does this deposite at the poles sublimate or does it accumulate via precipitation?
If there is so much dust in the air how is it possible for this deposit not to be 'dirty' or tainted 'red'?
In my humble opinion Mars does have climate cycles, for why would the polar deposites be shrinking and growing?

The evaporation of water does not cause wind. The coriolis effect doesn't cause wind either really, it does bend it though. Wind is caused by air flowing from high pressure areas to low pressure areas. As simple as that.

This seems quite true. But low and high pressure areas arise because of temperature changes. We know Mars' temperature to sometimes rise above zero degree C so it seems possible for water to play a role in the wind dynamics. But true it does not cause it.
The most general wind on Mars in my opinion comes from the interaction between the sunlit half and the dark half of the planet.
The giant storms maybe have more to do with interaction of polair air with equatorial air.

Wind can also be thought of one way that the atmosphere moves excess heat around.

as stated on the site Kano provided.

Okay, but it still is inconclusive as to what is generating these massive storms. While periods like now show hardly any wind activity.

The planet rotates at a fixed rate and has an orbit period that we know down to the minute. But try and find information that specifically says Mars has a predicitable weather pattern of "storms".

So the poles have a massive layer of frozen C02 and during portions of Mars orbit around the sun it will heat up above zero C and this they think will cause some CO2 to turn into the gaseous state thereby generating a high pressure pocket but doubtfull that this alone could cause enough air/mass movement to cause a global wide "storm".

High/ Low pressure differentails are caused directly by temperature changes. Since Mars has pretty much a global wide temperature it is hard to say that minor variations could cause such dramatic effects.

Originally posted by robertfenix
High/ Low pressure differentails are caused directly by temperature changes. Since Mars has pretty much a global wide temperature it is hard to say that minor variations could cause such dramatic effects.

What? No it doesn't. The temperature fluctuates a great deal. Where on Earth (or Mars) did you get that impression from?

Please provide a link or real data that refutes what I posted about the global temperature on Mars.

Then you can discredit me.

I think you do a good enough job of that yourself mate

You are claiming the temperature on Mars is the same during the day and night and at all latitudes?

Martian weather conditions are controlled by several factors that do not change much from year to year: seasonal heating from the sun, recession of the seasonal polar frost, and topographic relief. It is therefore possible to use MGS MOC observations made in two consecutive years to generally forecast weather conditions at any given location for an interval not larger than about a week or so.

The temperature on Mars is much colder than the temperature on the Earth. During summers on Mars the temperature reaches about 20 degrees Fahrenheit (-6 degrees Celsius). The warmest temperature ever recorded on Mars was 63 degrees Farenheit. During the winter temperatures fall to about -200 degrees Fahrenheit (-129 degrees Celsius).

www.adlerplanetarium.org...

The average atmospheric pressure and temperature on Mars is small compared to Earth�s (6 millibars versus 1013 millibars and �60 degrees Celsius versus 15 degrees) Because the atmospheric pressure is low and the temperature at the surface is generally below the freezing point of water, water can only exist as ice or vapor. At certain locations and times on Mars, when the air pressure is high enough and the temperature is above freezing, liquid water is theoretically possible, but it would rapidly evaporate. Computer simulations show that the average surface temperature at a particular location increases gradually with the approach of summer in such a way that by the time the melting point is reached any surface ice would have turned to vapor. Therefore, liquid water on the surface is possible only as a temporary phenomenon in times and places of immediate and unexpected heating, like sudden near-surface geothermal activity.

calspace.ucsd.edu...

At a point termed the "melting isotherm depth", the temperature exceeds the melting point and liquid water can exist. Taking 0 degrees Celsius as the freezing point, the melting isotherm depth is calculated at between 1m and 8km below the surface. Geothermal activity could lead to warmer temperatures and the presence of liquid water closer to the surface, but no such geological "hot spots" have been identified yet.

calspace.ucsd.edu...

Dust storms often begin in the Southern Hemisphere during the summer months. This is due to the fact that during this time Mars is closer to the Sun. The extra heat is absorbed and released rapidly. The resulting air temperature differentials induce extremely strong winds, with large-scale patterns exceeding100 mph.

calspace.ucsd.edu...

(notice how they do not explain how heat can be absorbed and released rapidly by what means does this happen? This is why this is a �theory� of how the storms are generated)

Mars global wide has an AIR temp of less then 32 degrees F. In these conditions you can not generate the typical High/Low pressures zones as you see on Earth.

Alright, you have to be taking the piss here.

Read what you just bloody posted! It shows exactly what I was talking about

(notice how they do not explain how heat can be absorbed and released rapidly by what means does this happen? This is why this is a ?theory? of how the storms are generated)

The surface is not uniform. Different areas absorb, reflect and release the energy at different rates. This is what causes the temperature differentials in the atmosphere. (The same as on Earth) Further to that the differing amounts of dust in the atmosphere also change the absorption rate of energy by the atmosphere itself, and how much reaches the ground.

Mars global wide has an AIR temp of less then 32 degrees F. In these conditions you can not generate the typical High/Low pressures zones as you see on Earth.

That might be an Average, but even earth has an Average temperature. There are still many great variations around the planet.

[Edited on 11-3-2004 by Kano]

Nope Mars is 32 degrees or less, not a prime condition for big barometric changes.

No concrete theory has to the dispersion of this "rapid heat"

Learn how the weather works first

Oh so the Polar regions of Earth don't have wind either because they are cold too right?

Its any temperature differential, not only ones above a certain temperature. The difference between 0C and -100C is the same as the difference between +100C and 0C. Temperature continues on below the freezing point of water mate.

[Edited on 11-3-2004 by Kano]

i really know nothing in this field, but i think it would be wrong to assume that mars is subject to the same needed temps to cause high/low pressure areas.

i have no clue if what i just typed even makes sense, but from experience, robertfenix, i recommend against challenging kano's knowledge.

Rapid heat loss is not something strange. It is accomplished by several things, like
Albedo: the reflectency of surfaces.
IR-light: normal heat radiance
cloud cover: works like a warm spring day that cools quickly during clear nights and staying relatively(!) warm with cloud cover.
wind: 'smoothing' temperature differences
precipitation: the condensing or sublimating of gasses is a heat sink
enz enz.

By the way when mars heats up the equatorial air will heat up but also the poles. Because of the presence of CO2 and H2O at the poles it will make for a heavy cold air bubble. Maybe only when big enough it collapses and spreads 'up/down' to the equator and air from the equator gets sucked 'up/down' to the poles untill a new equilibrium is established.
just a thought.

Cold air and colder air do not make cloud cover or high/low pressure regions. Once the air is 0 degree C or less it does not matter. Water or CO2 vaper becomes locked and falls to the surface as ice, as we have seen in not only the poles but over most of the surface. Since the ambient temp rarely if ever gets above freezing the CO2 remains locked in the soil.

Okay so this might be whats happening. As the polar caps move into the position of Equitorial heating the frozen CO2 on the ground converts to gas and rises up of the surface like a vacuum the now gaseous CO2 vapor draws in the colder ambient "air" up the rising column generating wind flow. As the warmer column of "air" reaches the upper atmosphere it recools and the CO2 crystals bond with the fine sand particles brought up in the updraft. As the CO2/Sand particles drift down to the surface their mass causes the lighter "air" to move out of the way thereby creating a "wind storm" this effect continues until there is enough "dust" in the air to effectivly defuse the solar heating of the poles.

So therefore winds could be generated with out the formation of cloud cover and the CO2 remains locked in the soil. Providing insulation and trapping any "water" beneath the surface. As the trapped CO2/Sand deflects enough thermal energy to prevent the CO2/ from escaping the soil.

Sounds like we need to send a thermal pump up there and some algae spores and let them loose. Maybe a nice low yield Hydrogyen Bomb will do the trick.

Freeing up enough Hydrogyen atoms to break up the CO2 bonds, warm the atmosphere and throw up enough debris to trap some thermal energy at the surface for enough time for the algea to take hold and feed off the locked in CO2 in the soil.

sorry to correct you on some things;

Any temperature difference between two areas is enough to be 'low/high pressure regions'. Remember that it is the RELATIVE pressure difference that counts. Gas is only a medium for heat transferrance.

The boilingpoint of CO2 is -78,5 Celsius at 1,013 bar so that leaves enough room for evaporation of CO2 on equatorial level.

Can you explain this below?

As the polar caps move into the position of Equitorial heating the frozen CO2 on the ground converts to gas and rises up of the surface like a vacuum

move into position?
rises like a vacuum?

As the trapped CO2/Sand deflects enough thermal energy to prevent the CO2/ from escaping the soil.

Do you mean that dirty snow has a higher albedo?
And if you are right why are the polar caps seemingly clear ice/snow?

Again I must ask what the hell are you talking about robert? Weather continues on below 0C. Look at the Earths polar regions.

You've covered in your own links how the wind and dust storms occur on Mars.