Louisiana About to Pass Law to Teach Creationism!!

I have to give it to self righteous politicians with religious agendas bringing the light to the masses and into the school system.

I love how religion is pushed in public school, got to get the heathens soul ready for Jesus.

After the way our school system ranks in the world what is more important in education than to be able to get into a good college with your best grades from your bible classes.

[edit on 19-6-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


As far as strawmen go, I do dumped him over 20 years ago!

Perhaps, I misunderstood your post. But it seemed to impy that the you're just fine with the teaching of intelligent design or creationism in school.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
This is a tempest in a teapot and it really is the business of Louisiana and no one else's.

Nothing has been said about whether ID will be taught in science classes or not, but even if it is, so what?

creationism is already taught in comparative/world religion classes, where else would they intend to start teaching creation other then science class that would produce head lines, art?
and as for as your dismissive "so what" goes about teaching creationism goes creationism has no place science class room, it is the antithesis of science, is says don't worry about how things work or are the way they are, god made the universe and that is all we need to know.

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk

and as for as your dismissive "so what" goes about teaching creationism goes creationism has no place science class room, it is the antithesis of science, is says don't worry about how things work or are the way they are, god made the universe and that is all we need to know.

That's what you say, but obviously those who pay taxes and send their kids to school in Louisiana feel differently and I think that it's infinitely more fair for them to decide what is taught in school than for those who have no stake in the issue at all.

I guarantee you that if the two theories are taught equally, the better theory will prevail. Suppressing one or the other will only fuel the acrimony of those who will feel left out.

I would reiterate that unless you live in Louisiana and send your kids to school there, this really is none of your business.

You're welcome to your opinion, but your outrage is misplaced.

[edit on 2008/6/19 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

On the contrary, it should be everyone's business. If this goes through in Louisiana, then it sets a precedent that makes it easier for other states to follow suit.

What gives this particular segment of society a right to demand that religious doctrine be taught in public schools? That's basically what it boils down to.

Source

Sentell explains that the bill "would allow science teachers to use supplemental materials, in addition to state-issued textbooks, on issues like evolution, global warming and human cloning. The aim of such materials, the bill says, is to promote 'critical thinking skills, logical analysis and open and objective discussion of scientific theories being studied,' including evolution." Bill sponsor Sen. Ben Nevers (D-Bogalusa) explained: "I just believe that it is important that supplemental scientific information be able to be brought into the school system."

I wonder just what other "supplemental materials" they have in mind? The bible perhaps? I don't know of any "supplemental scientific information" that supports the creation theory.

While it would be nice to let the Louisiana school districts decide whether or not they want creationism taught in school, its simply not acceptable in a science class. The problem is that teachers are as opinionated as anyone, and every teacher is going to be bent on pushing their agenda in their classroom.

Anyone who's been through public school in America knows this. We've all had our liberal nutbag teachers and our conservative lunatic teachers, each who would spend more of the class hour talking about their particular politics than what they were supposed too. I'll never forget our IB calculus teacher who spent several entire lessons one week attempting to mathematically disprove evolution and pushing the young earth creation theory.

The sad fact is these teachers are going to teach what they believe, and in the end its just going to confuse and mislead students. The people who will suffer the most through all of this are Louisiana students, who by the time they graduate highschool won't know a 4.5 billion year old earth from a 5000 year old earth.

I believe a great compromise for the Louisiana school districts would be to allow teaching creationism in science at the elementary and middle school levels, but only teach evolution in science at the highschool level. That way students can see both points of view during their formative years, but when they grow up and start to become adults they can be educated like adults. Separate creationism into a world religions class (which could, and should, be mandatory), and leave evolution to the science classroom.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


I tell you what, you can teach creationism in school by law when scientists can teach evolution in church, BY LAW!
You have the rest of the day to indoctrinate your own children, keep away from mine!
End of story.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

That's what you say, but obviously those who pay taxes and send their kids to school in Louisiana feel differently and I think that it's infinitely more fair for them to decide what is taught in school than for those who have no stake in the issue at all.

unless you believe in federal law. if one state can do they all can.

I guarantee you that if the two theories are taught equally, the better theory will prevail.

right we never take the lazy way out, yeah right.

I would reiterate that unless you live in Louisiana and send your kids to school there, this really is none of your business.

no it isn't creationism has been judged unconstitutional by the supreme court, if you don't like it sue

You're welcome to your opinion, but your outrage is misplaced.

[edit on 2008/6/19 by GradyPhilpott]

to my opinion and to the courts opinions.
as for my out rage, what if somehow the creationists win the right to teach this tripe, it's called the slippery slope.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


You've obviously lost your presence of mine and your objectivity.

Do you live in Louisiana?

If not, what business is it of yours?

As I said, the people of Louisiana feel differently than you, so you can vent your hostility elsewhere.

I'm not your enemy.

I put my money on evolution, but I'm not afraid of opposing theories getting their day in the court of public opinion.

I'd like to know who made you the font of all knowledge that you would feel compelled to attack me for my opinion and to deny the people of Louisiana the right to choose the curriculum of the schools they pay for?

You're being just a little bit presumptious.

reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk


Well, obviously, if you're right, the Supreme Court will settle this matter in short order, if the bill does indeed become law.

What are you so worked up about?

Originally posted by drwizardphd
I wonder just what other "supplemental materials" they have in mind? The bible perhaps? I don't know of any "supplemental scientific information" that supports the creation theory.

Precisely. How does one go about teaching creationism without referencing God or the Bible. It can't be done. The story of creation is strictly in grounded in biblical scripture.

It's doctrine, pure and simple.

It's got nothing to do with where I live.
This is not a political matter whether they vote for it or not. It is a constitutional matter.
If they vote for it, if it passes their legislature, it will be challenged in the courts.
All they are hoping for is to get this through the present supreme court because it is leaning to the right. There are so many precedents on this it's not even funny. This is just grandstanding before the elections. The same way they always try to pass amendments on flag burning on a election year.
And not for nothing but you live in New Mexico so don't worry about where we live!

[edit on 19-6-2008 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

what I'm worked up about is the fact that maybe this time they'll win on the federal level and get this taught through out the nation. ton's of time and tax payer money will be waisted because some people can't tell the difference between science and religion.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


was that to me or GradyPhilpott

reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk


They cannot. The principle of separation is too fundamental to the first amendment even with these supreme court justices. Think about it, it would open the door for muslim, jewish, and any other faith based belief to be taught. It won't happen, it's just grandstanding.

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

was that to me or GradyPhilpott

GradyPhilpott

I live in New Mexico, but I was born and raised in Louisiana and lived there more than two-thirds of my life. I have a passel of relatives there, so I do have some interest in the matter.

You can get your blood pressure up over the matter, but I have more serious matters to consider.


[edit on 2008/6/20 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk

 

They cannot. The principle of separation is too fundamental to the first amendment even with these supreme court justices. Think about it, it would open the door for muslim, jewish, and any other faith based belief to be taught. It won't happen, it's just grandstanding.

This has nothing to do with separation of church and state. Only the most disingenuous would make such an assertion, but of course that is the stance of the ACLU.

The First Amendment proscribes a state religion and not the mention of God in the public sphere.

Why don't you just admit it. It's idea of God and the believers that you hate.

You couldn't care less about the origin of species or even science for that matter.

[edit on 2008/6/19 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
You can get your blood pressure up over the matter, but I have more serious matters to consider.

So I guess you didn't have any serious matters to consider.

Look, explain to me this if you don't mind. If you have children you are the biggest influence in their formative years. You can talk to them, read the bible to them, take them to church, take them to Sunday school. I never understand this dogmatic fundamentalism to push creationism into our schools. Why is it so important?

I can't explain it to you.

I don't hold those views.

I merely support the right of the people to control the education of their children and their tax money to a reasonable extent.

I think this is reasonable, if not illegal.

If it is illegal, then the courts will rule.