Just what we need, the government controlling the refineries. Just give them something else to screw up.

I think they view the oil profits as a source of money for their own screwed up pet projects, and another means of lining their pockets, all in the interest of the American Citizens.

Oh god, I hate democrats even more than republicans. I'm so tired of them trying to control every aspect of the nation and spoon feed society their commodities at the people's expense. Big Brother indeed.

Democrats continue to # up oil. Bill Clinton has actually impacted current gas prices more than anyone else. The decision to veto ANWR drilling was a costly one, because that oil very well could've alleviated nationwide gas prices in this "crisis" we're facing now. In fact, I'm surprised the rest of the world doesn't think we're complete asses for sitting on two of the world's largest oil deposits (ANWR, Gulf of Mexico). We even have quite a bit of oil in areas like The Great Lakes that haven't been tapped yet. Thanks a lot democrats. The least we could do is drill these areas until we can convert to hydrogen or electric, or possibly some other new fuel source.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by Xeroxed_Horizon]

Originally posted by dbates
It's starting to sound like we're in the U.S.S.R. with Congressmen talking about nationalizing oil refineries.

Nationalizing industry is only a problem if governments are non representative and since Americans do live in a country where they nominally elect representatives the comparison with the USSR is flawed. In fact the USSR also had elections the only problem being that you could not pick who you could vote for. In a true democracy there is no problem with the state having or gaining control over industry as industry is as standard more tyrannical in form with no chance of true representation.

Do they actually think that they can dish out oil like some sort of welfare state commodity?

Absolutely. Industry does not have to be run for profit and in fact losses will be carried at taxpayer expense without much fanfare if it results in living wage jobs and cheaper commodities. There is a great myth about the inefficiency of state owned corporations and maybe we can instead focus on why such a myth has flourished?

They're fools! The min they start regulating the sale and price of oil, the gas lines will grow to traffic jam proportions.

No one said that oil prices should 'regulated'. What is proposed is that governments nationalize the RESOURCES of a given country so as to best allow the people of that country to exploit them trough elected representatives running corporations in the public interest? Why should the people of a country not benefit by the resources of that country and why on Earth can we not fund the development of such resources with our taxes? In fact why have we put up with our tax money being given to private persons so that they may exploit OUR oil for private profit? Why don't they pay us proper taxes ( so we can build schools and the like) if they are using OUR oil?

Just look at what happened in the 1970s.

What happened in the 1970's other than a artificially created crisis?

Raise taxes,

As long as the taxes are used in the public interest there is no real and obvious loss. The definition of 'public' interest is where the Democratic practices of the citizenry comes into play and if ALL industry in a given country could be owned by the people ( nationalization) then the people can expect industry to please the public or change the government to reflect their needs. I just don't understand how any other system can or should be aimed for.

control health care,

Not control health care completely but use tax income from the general public to provide a free, or at least heavily subsidised, service to the citizens who do not have much left after paying said taxes and buying food. What else are governments supposed to do with the tax income? I suppose we can discuss if we should have government at all but frankly the absence of government is EXACTLY what private industry dreams about. Since they can not arrange such they do their best to get government to help them for private gain while proceeding to blame all economic ills on the 'government' for trying to regulate the economy. Sure i can see why they are complaining if governments were most trying to regulate industry for the average citizens benefits but since that is not often the case they are just keeping up the pretense so as to best protect themselves from legitimate public hatred.

and now it's a call for controlling the oil market. Orwellian isn't it? Big Brother needs to take care of you. Just trust him.

And yes, this is a big problem! How much should we give the beast to control knowing that we might fail to control it if it becomes too big? I would argue that a responsible well educated citizenry can afford nationalization and thus a growing public domain but that peoples who are not far along the democratic struggle might have a harder time of it. The more organized a citizenry becomes the more able they will be to protect the public domain from those in it who would use it for personal gain but obviously the fear remains that such much centralized authority may enable abuse.

I suppose it comes down to have much faith you have in human beings and their democratic/lack thereof nature and if you believe that a dictator can truly be successful without a mandarin class who will run the state machinery without objection. Obviously such experiments have been conducted but it's hard to say how successful they in fact were knowing that the world has been run by the capitalist classes for a very long time. In such a hostile environment democracy does not flourish and is in fact actively persecuted and destroyed for the liberalizing effects it normally has on economic and political rights of the citizenry.

So in conclusion centralization is probably no worse than privatization IF either systems can be regulated by the citizenry. I in fact tend towards a privatized economy but my ideal would be that it is heavily regulated by the nominal owners of the resources which always has to be the citizens of a given country.

Stellar

Originally posted by jerico65
Just what we need, the government controlling the refineries. Just give them something else to screw up.

If the government is truly representative of the people's will it will not result in gas shortages. Shortages are the result of private interest trying to make a profit by manipulating supply. If a government control of refineries and oil fields still result in shortages we can hold more elections and replace them for their failure to do as the people demanded.

I think they view the oil profits as a source of money for their own screwed up pet projects,

If their pet projects does not correspond to the wishes of the majority they are not representative and they can then hardly be blamed for doing what their actual corporate constituents wants. They should be voted out and replaced with citizens who do what they said they would on the campaign trial.

and another means of lining their pockets, all in the interest of the American Citizens.

Well that's clearly not in the interest of the American citizens. Government employees should be rewarded for their services rendered but no more so than they would have if they were working for private interest. Governments should simply do as they were asked to do by the majority of their constituents and failing that should be replaced by people who can and do.

Stellar

If the refineries are nationalized that will lead to lower gas prices right? So if prices lower that will be great! What is the downside to nationalizing refineries?

What is the downside to nationalizing refineries?

It's just another thing for the government to control. If they are able to own the US Oil refineries, it creates another rather large dependency on the government.

The whole idea is to collect money for the government from these refineries, much like your private Oil companies do.

It will create Gas lines and energy crisis.

Not too mention, the Liberal Congress is for researching new BioFuels to replace Oil as an energy source. It will take years and years for this to happen.

They will make alot of money off it though, just like Global Warming.

It's called "Green Energy". It is a group of Liberal companies headed by Billionaire George Soros and Perseus LLC. They are heavily funding Obama's campaign. Obama promises to invest over 800 Billion in Green Energy companies if elected.

That is your money going to Billionaire George Soros and his partners in crime. Soros is not even American or a natural born citizen. Come to think of it, neither is Obama though.



[edit on 28-7-2008 by jetxnet]