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UFO's and ATS's increasing lack of credibility

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posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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I don't usually post in the UFO forum, not because I am not interested, I certain am, (I read almost every thread) but mainly out of trying to stop my ever persistent, spiraling out of control, lack of confidence I have in the intelligence of my fellow man.

I have foot in mouth disease and tend to rail against people when they piss me off. (sorry) So I try to click off a page when it gets to me... but every once in a while ( allot recently on ATS) I find myself unable to stop from hitting the reply button. Today, thankfully, I didn't reply to anyone specifically and thought better of it to post my rant on the state of proof on ATS.


:::::::: Begin Rant :::::::::


Over the last few years there has been an influx of people here who would believe anything anyone posts without a shred of real evidence. Any video clip from YouTube is regarded as "proof" now.

These people have the scientific understanding and know how of a goat smoking weed. But they are ABSOLUTELY sure of their convictions, they are RIGHT! You could hand them a fishing rod, the reel and line along with a "making of" video of the hoax you just pulled and they'd say you were a government plant.

I sometimes think I could put on an Alien mask with jeans and a t-shirt and pontificate on the sad state of affairs on planet earth and I'd have 15 members on ATS swear they've met me on my ship.

It is so frustrating......

Know this:
I WANT to see a real LIVE UFO, I am not here just to bash believers, I want to know we are not alone (I know.. but I don't KNOW.. get me?)

My beef isn't with you believing, it is with you believing just to believe or believing on an unmovable set of scientific principles that are no more advanced than our stone aged brethren.

But for the love of all that is good and chocolaty, can we please all agree to stop posting our inner beliefs and comprehension as some sort of stick of measure for "proof" please? Can we also please all agree to stop posting our lack of scientific and physics understanding?


The complete lack of critical thinking here borders on criminal.
I can understand BELIEVING, but believing based on junk science or you think you "just know" is retarded.


I see so many posts with people convinced of this or that due to things like:

"a balloon can't possibly fly that high"
"No craft I know"
"That color isn't possible"
"Sounds logical to me"
"Gravity is..."
"see how the camera shakes"
"see how the camera doesn't shake"

No one seems to seriously take into consideration : weather, distance, relative size, perspective, atmospheric distortion, military advancement, secret programs, video quality, motive, similarities to After Effect plug-in or any of a thousand other variables.


Just a quick example of the "know how" of our members here:

A tiny object up in the sky moving fast "can't be a ballon"... really? why not? Are you an expert on balloons 5k feet up? We seem to have about 1000 balloon experts here.

All this unproven "inner knowledge" and pseudoscience conjecture is driving me nuts.

One guy talks about how it would be hard to forge this particular video because of the lightning clips available on the net. HUH??


What I got from this guy (and I don't mean to just pick on him) is that in his opinion he leans more toward believing a video because HE doesn't know how to make a convincingly fake lightning and because HE believes that the straightness of the initial light is some how NOT producible with cgi or other types of hoaxes?

So somehow because he cannot fathom how this could be hoaxed, it probably isn't a hoax? What is up with this self centered "I know it all" viewpoint today?

AND WHY ISN'T ANYONE ELSE POINTING IT OUT EXCEPT ME?

Is this what we have become? I thought we were getting smarter...





Note: I am not saying any particular video is fake, I am not saying there is no such thing as UFO's or whatever, I am merely saying that the yardstick for determination MUST be greater than some personal misconception or lack of scientific background.

The second you start thinking YOU know it all and it HAS to be this way or that way.. you need to stop and realize you are in fact... part of the problem.


:::::::: End Rant :::::::::


even if no one reads this, I feel much better now




posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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I couldn't agree with you more. I even went as far as to say my farewell to the troops here last week. I've just learned to keep my fingers away from the keyboard and learned to realize that doing so keeps me healthier and less angry.

I'm not saying I know much or anything for that matter. I do know this...that this forum has been and continues to spiral out of control.

I'm not asking every thread here to give some sort of proof, what I want here is a thread that doesn't insult my intelligence.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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at the end of the day NO footage and NO pictures will EVER be accepted as proof. Because we live in a world where technology is there to create this stuff from scratch. And if everyone's a liar out for fame and fortune,then no witness testemony will ever be good enough.

Some people scream fake at everything,and that's just as annoying as the people who scream "zomg,alamiens" at everything.


where's the middle ground here? There ain't one. Might aswell either,close down this section and just pretend it never happened. Or carry on,and keep watching the grainy footage,just incase they're real. And who knows,filming a ufo might create some distoted effects that are usually seen as signatures to cgi. We don't know,and we never will .


I'm going to keep watching this site,and I'm going to keep watching the skies.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by gormly
Over the last few years there has been an influx of people here who would believe anything anyone posts without a shred of real evidence. Any video clip from YouTube is regarded as "proof" now.



Actually, its usually the person posting the vids, claiming "proof" and everyone else in the thread debunks it successfully.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by gormly
 



You know what grinds my gears ?

People who come in here claiming to have had an experience that cannot be proven. Even the smallest thing (yeah guy who went to area 51, recorded guards messing his stuff, then lost said camera to said guards later on) is seemingly too dull to be faked.

Or the people who come on claiming to have all the answers! Or the people who claim to be assassins!

Or the people who frequent certain message boards (elite?) and only reply to the people who also frequent it.

Or when you reply to a post with more than 10 replies, your post most likely won't be read. Even if you bring up things no one else has.

Or the fact that Steven Greer still has credibility. Even after this woo woo vectoring craft with flashlights crap.

Or that a lot of people on here try too hard to make a cool name. Call yourself "Da_master_mage" but to me you sound like a hip hop D&D player.

Or the "know it alls" who think people are dumb if they suspect any sort of cover up/conspiracy.

Or when people post pseudoscientific crap with bonus bad grammar/spelling "wee egzist coz of ray-dee-ay-shin" "thay egzist n difrnt freekwinseas".


[edit on 18-6-2008 by trilateral_insignia]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 03:24 PM
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Actually, its usually the person posting the vids, claiming "proof" and everyone else in the thread debunks it successfully.



Yes, you are correct! Except for one thing.

IT'S THE SAME DAMN VIDEOS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by gormly

Over the last few years there has been an influx of people here who would believe anything anyone posts without a shred of real evidence. Any video clip from YouTube is regarded as "proof" now.


That is the reason why this forum is crowded. Full of dumbs, including me.

People in here were so dumbs and go challenging black prophet so called yahweh regarding to UFO. Both sides took it seriously is one of the dumbest thing in this forum and people within it.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by gauncents
 


Well thats simply people who are too lazy to use the search function before posting a thread


[edit on 18-6-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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Although I have no physics background, I have to say that one of the real reasons I come here is because of intense personal experiences.

I deserve to know more about the phenomena, and one day it is just possible others with more expertise can shed light on my need to know.

If any of my posts or threads have insulted your intelligence, sorry.

I am just an ordinary person with extraordinary experiences. What I have seen and witnessed was not of this world. I have no proof other than my truth.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by cheebay
People in here were so dumbs and go challenging black prophet so called yahweh regarding to UFO. Both sides took it seriously is one of the dumbest thing in this forum and people within it.


Which generated SO much interest that the thread became the top new thread, for a while, with 40 flags, over 400 replies, and over 35000 views....

Hmmm.....



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by gormly
These people have the scientific understanding and know how of a goat smoking weed.




I'm going to be laughing all night long on this one.

I find this lack of understanding and ignorance of the sciences to be not limited to the UFO forums, but it seems to have carcinogenously seeped its way across the entire website (minus owners, a few mods, and a very select few members) sucking the logical and intellectual life out of any importance.

I often find myself in your emotional location... like a tea kettle steaming and ready, whistling and waiting to be popped off, yet I have to impliment self discipline and attempt to be nice to the "weed smoking goats".

Ugh, what a drag. Anyhow, I've limited my input to the site recently, to attempt to allow things to acclimate into some state of unintellectual equillibrium before I become regularly active again.


:bash:

Nice rant btw. It's a much needed luagh.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 09:39 PM
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Wanna here some truth people? The truth is is that this thread started in the ufo forum where it was intended. As soon as it got some attention, it got bumped down where it's not going to get as much attention.

It doesn't matter that the alien ufo forum is out of whack now, this just shows proof that the 3 amigos are selling out for popularity.

Get as many members as we can. bottom line. The heck with anything else.

Here comes the sarcasm...

Gee, let's not discourage the new members, they are posting at a record pace and who cares what it's about!!!

End Sarcasm.

Hell, I'll probalby get warned just for saying this.



[edit on 18-6-2008 by gauncents]

[edit on 18-6-2008 by gauncents]



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by cheebay
People in here were so dumbs and go challenging black prophet so called yahweh regarding to UFO. Both sides took it seriously is one of the dumbest thing in this forum and people within it.


Which generated SO much interest that the thread became the top new thread, for a while, with 40 flags, over 400 replies, and over 35000 views....


I wouldn't go patting yourself on the back there MrdDstrbr too hard. You've got a U2U.


Originally posted by gauncents
Wanna here some truth people? The truth is is that this thread started in the ufo forum where it was intended. As soon as it got some attention, it got bumped down where it's not going to get as much attention.


Ant the truth of the matter is, is that this thread started out as a rant, therefore it belongs in the Rant's area.. plain and simple..

Johnny


[edit on 6/19/2008 by JohnnyAnonymous]



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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Understand this: only available option for gaining a set of posters who do not believe everything is to moderate a forum in such a way, that allowance to post would be under permission by moderators.

That would also mean that moderators agree with whoever is allowed to get a permission to post, that is how human mind works.

It would be birth of elitism. Again.

I do not want that here, as only possible explanations are usually the ones nobody else thought about. This also means that nobody agrees until proof.

I would like to have a lot of people agreeing with me and I also want people to understand some basic principles in their thinking. That will never happen, there will always be a perchentage of people who just cannot think in (defined) critical way. You'll have to live with that, no matter where you are.

As ATS gains popularity, number of that group will increase, but so will the number of people capapble of such criticism.

Point is, that you cannot change the world.



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyAnonymous
I wouldn't go patting yourself on the back there MrdDstrbr too hard. You've got a U2U.


The numbers that the thread generated speak for themselves. Clearly, there's a lot of interest in the "UFO Summoning Challenge".

Granted I made some mistakes in the way I handled things, I acknowledge that, but I am only human....

I'm glad Prophet's side of the story got represented.



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyAnonymous
Ant the truth of the matter is, is that this thread started out as a rant, therefore it belongs in the Rant's area.. plain and simple..

Johnny


Yes, a rant about a forum should stay in the forum or it wont get the attention it needs. All you do here is just brushing it under the rug and hoping it goes away.

Just because you are a company guy and a yes man, doesn't mean you get to pat yourself on the back. We'll I take that back, you an do it all you want, doesn't mean anyone cares. Or is watching.



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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Also Johnny, the plain and simple remark is a great example of why things are the way they are in that forum. Just because the OP uses the word rant in their post, doesn't neccessarily mean that you have to move it.

If you go look in the UFO forum, their are plenty of threads that are purely speculation. I don't see those thread moved to speculative theories forum.

Also, in your avatar it says that you are part of the best staff on the internet? I hope that is self proclaimed otherwise we are all in trouble.


[edit on 19-6-2008 by gauncents]



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by gauncents
Also Johnny, the plain and simple remark is a great example of why things are the way they are in that forum. Just because the OP uses the word rant in their post, doesn't neccessarily mean that you have to move it.

If you go look in the UFO forum, their are plenty of threads that are purely speculation. I don't see those thread moved to speculative theories forum.


Actually many of the "Speculative theories" are moved to other areas. I hadn't realized that you had taken the time out of your busy schedule to verify each and every thread in each and every area for such action.. but good for you! And by the way, there is a huge difference in a thread that may start out by say this is a speculative theory, and one that clearly says "BEGIN RANT".. "END RANT"..

We don't expect everyone to understand the complexities of what we as MODS go through to try and keep the forum running smoothly. And for the most part, all moves and concerns are ran by our staff and deliberated on and about how to handle a situation/scenario.. I apologize if that goes against the grain of your concept on how things should be handled.. We attempt to do the best we can.

I hope this helps, if not, then there is always aspirin. I go through a 1/6 of a bottle a day with trying to handle situations created... (reaches for two more...)



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 08:10 PM
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Exactly, this was a situation created. I feel the thread should have been left alone.

but then again I understand. It wasn't positive to begin with. You wont let anyone dump trash on your living room floor. Or anyone elses for that matter. You aren't even a moderator of that forum. Let's make sure our own backyard is clean first before telling others what they need to be doing.


There are other ways to deal with your aspirin addiction!


[edit on 19-6-2008 by gauncents]

[edit on 19-6-2008 by gauncents]



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



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