Get Real and Keep It Simple: How To Prep When Time Is Short and Money Is Tight

reply to post by LLoyd45
If your worried about cost (i know some of us can afford an m4 but others can't) skip the .22 and get the high point 9mm carbine. Theyr'e cheap and good quality.

After years of searching up and buying firearms, I know that there's always a deal to be had out there, if you don't give up too easily. If you have the time to really research your desired weapon and your market — all of which can be accomplished on the Internet — then you can pretty much find the weapon you want at the price you want every time.

When I started looking for an M4, for example, I spent a good three weeks just lurking in the black gun forums, reading and re-reading the debates, the reviews, the gun range reports, etc, before I ever started looking for a seller. And the sellers were many, from retail sites to gun auction sites and classifieds. You gunners out there know that we have damned good representation on the Internet, and we can find out who, what, when, where and how much for virtually any firearm. Legal firearm, that is (thought I'd better throw that in).

Well, I searched and researched for a little over a month, until I found myself in the right place with the right seller at the right time... About a week later I signed the transfer papers for a brand new pre-ban Bushmaster M4/A3 for a grand total of $570 (twenty of which was my transfer fee). There's your economical M4.

Of course, you're not going to get that price from any retail site that I know of, nor from any online auction. I landed the deal by talking to people and then talking to their people, and finally making a phone call to a private gun shop in some out-of-the-way town in BFE, which so happened to be selling a few units of new old stock. The seller threw in 2 extra 30-round mags and mag-grips, gratis. It felt like Christmas.

Anyhoo, the gist of the story is that you're not going to get exactly what you want at the price you want to pay without digging in and rubbing elbows for a bit. I would never decide I needed a gun and buy one the same day with limited cash, is my point, unless I was so desperate that I was willing to buy second-hand from a pawn shop. Not that there's anything wrong with that — I've seen some decent 12 gauge Mossbergs in pawn shops for under $150.

I know i'm just an old school bolt action guy but there is a lot of interest in these Hi Point carbines and I spotted a nice stock conversion at cheaper than dirt. Might be worth a look for those folks.

To all of the responders - THANK YOU so much.

Boy Scout Manual - Check.

LLoyd, Anuubis Cyberbian and Doc - all of it practical and do-able advice. I'm all about not helping my neighbors get drunk and get bold! LOL!

I really think this thread might help others like myself, as it's not too pie in the sky, over the top survivalistic.

A couple of last geeky questions. What about first aid supplies on hand? What's the safest way to store gas? And can you buy ammo with 'cash only" and not give your name? I do have a .22, but now I think it might be useless. Which is better handgun / shotgun?

What are some classic "round up the idiots" traps to avoid? I love the advice to avoid looking too well fortified, stocked and fed.

reply to post by kosmicjack


My $.02 worth.

If we here in the West get stuck in an economic depression which IMHO is a far more likely scenario than a global catastrophe, our wits are more important than any survival supplies. Remember during most environmental crises, human or natural, the generalists survive and the specialists perish.


Food

Specifically gardening/farming. Join an 'urban underground gardening network'. These are folks who are basically turning abandoned properties and roof tops into green spaces. They also plant edibles in city owned right-of-ways and highway shoulders. I know of one family in the Houston area that has been using the area along a bayou as a garden area for more than 10 years. To keep the city/county groundskeepers out, they keep the vegetation cut down on a 20' by 100 yard easement and the maintenance folk ignore it. They and several of their neighbors in turn get 20 feet of garden space onto their property.

Mobility

At the very least, ever person should own a sturdily built bike. Equipped with both front and rear racks. A bicycle trailer will double your load carrying ability. I prefer a hybrid mountain bike, front hydraulic forks and rigid rear suspension with dual purpose tread tires. A seat shock will also make riding easier. E-motored bikes will make for faster riding and a small gas engine can double or triple your speed or daily riding range without adding a great deal of weight.

Water

You should always have some form of water filtering/purifying device on or about you. Even an suburban setting, rainwater harvesting is starting to take hold as many cities have completely divested themselves of their of their utilities and public works dept.'s leaving homeowners to deal with private water companies.

Weapons

Choose a rifle and revolver that take the same ammo. If you must have a semi-auto, go with .40 Smith and Wesson Auto or .45 ACP over the 9mm. They are much more powerful and are capable of single round lethality when hunting. A 12 gage shotgun is the preferred weapon of home defense but even a .22 rimfire short is deadly at most street shooting ranges.

Nothing beat a spring powered airgun for stealth hunting of backyards pests like rabbits,squirrel,rats, mice and most birds. A decent one with an 'airgun' rated scope will set you back less than $200 and will put meat on the table for years without alerting your presence to anyone.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
A couple of last geeky questions. What about first aid supplies on hand? What's the safest way to store gas? And can you buy ammo with 'cash only" and not give your name? I do have a .22, but now I think it might be useless. Which is better handgun / shotgun?

If you've had any medical training like first aid, EMT, LPN, or RN your first aid supplies should reflect it, If not go with a basic first aid kit with the type of supplies you can easily use like this one. I used to be an EMT, and it suits me fine. I did replace the scissors with a sturdier pair, and added a large bottle of IB's. There's also a small first aid guide included in the bag.

Store gas away from your home in a cool, dry place. To make it last longer add a fuel stabilizer to the can. Gas goes bad over time if you don't. Metal cans are also preferable to plastic ones in my opinion.

As for a hand gun, Are you're hands largish or small? Have you ever fired a gun? Do you want reliable and inexpensive, or name brand? The minimum self-defense caliber is in my opinion a .380 or 9mm. Others may disagree.. A Bersa Thunder .380 would be a good choice for the money.

For a Shotgun, if you're smallish in size, get a 20 gauge. The Mossberg 500 Bantam is a great choice. I bought my wife one for Christmas. LOL Don't forget to buy ammo for them!

Some places ask for ID, some don't. It depends on where you're located. Call your local Wal Mart and ask. It's an age requirement thing, so it's nothing to sweat.

Keep your 22. Ammo is dirt cheap for it, and it's a good backup gun if needed.

What are some classic "round up the idiots" traps to avoid? I love the advice to avoid looking too well fortified, stocked and fed.

I'd say road blocks and/or checkpoints would be the biggest dangers. These are the places people with loads of supplies in the back of their vehicles will get nabbed. At minimum they'll lose their stuff to confiscation.

Aid stations may be another danger spot, so I'd hang back and let several people go through the lines ahead of me. If they went unmolested, then I'd try to get a few freebies as well.

If you don't need them, barter them for things you do need. If you simply give them away people will begin to wonder why. Not good..



[edit on 6/21/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by LLoyd45


Everyone knocks the .380 ACP aka 9mm Kurz as being a weak round but with modern hollow points and a strong action like the Bersa Thunder, CZ-83 or FEG PA-63 are very reasonably priced and will stand up to some very warm ammo loads. I've also heard that High Point's .380 Comp model was deadly accurate and a very good gun for the recoil shy beginners.

Any decent .22 rimfire rifle with a 4x scope will be more accurate at longer ranges than most pistol caliber submachine guns. My big-box store special .22 rim fire semi auto rifle is a Savage 64F. It will shoot sub 3 inch groups all day at 100 yards with standard ammo and a cheap 6x scope. That's about as wide as most folk's index fingers are. An accurate .22 rf rifle will hold that level of accuracy out to 150-200 yards.

Roadblocks are easily avoided but you've got to be wary of roving patrols. Find out where all the surveillance cameras are and plan you travel routes to avoid them.

reply to post by kosmicjack


I live in a caravan so I will always have a roof over my head . I am gradually expanding my vegetable garden as I can afford to so . My aim is to grow as much food as possible in a small space . When I get some storage space sorted out I intend to store petrol in a Jerrycan if I can do so safely . I also intend to plant a dwarf apple tree at some stage .

reply to post by crgintx
I have no problems with a .380 for personal defense, and the Hi-Point .380 is a great gun for the under a hundred bucks price tag. It's all about shot placement if you ask me, not caliber.

I have a 64F too, and paid under a hundred for it at Wally World. It's a great shooter, and totally reliable. Mossberg makes the 702 Plinkster in .22lr, which is another under one hundred dollar value gun. Inexpensive does not always equal cheap or poorly made in my opinion.

I have seen a few of the Chinese military shotguns that shoot and function as well as any Mossberg or Remington for half the price. If you're not into bragging rights, there are a lot of good gun values out there, which will fit almost anyone's budget.

SOG
J&G Sales
AIM


[edit on 6/22/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by LLoyd45


For the most bang for the buck, it's still hard to beat the old Russian warhorse, the Moisin-Nagant bolt action rifle. The milsurp ammo for it is still cheaper than surplus 7.62 NATO. I favor a 4x or 6x fixed power scope for it. These aren't pretty or fast firing and you'll be luck to get one to shoot less than 4' groups at 100 yards with iron sights.

I own one shotgun, a Winchester Model 12 in 12 gage from WW2. It's action has been worn butter smooth and with a fan fire trigger, I can rack off 3 shells before the first spent one hits the ground. Why the US military replaced it with the Rem. 870 Security models is beyond me. I've fired the Mossberg Marine entry guns and the old Gunny offered me $700 when I told him I had Model 12 Military. I had to refuse him because these guns are becoming rarer every day. To ease his longing, I let him demonstrate for his Misguided Children what a real combat pump action shotgun can do. He scared the pants off of them when he racked all 6 rounds in less than 2 seconds. I think 2 or 3 cases were still in the air after he'd emptied it. He then demonstrated that he could hit 6 different targets spaced well apart before the second shell hit the ground. Like the M-1A(the semi-auto only version of the M14), it was too effective a weapon for the average troops to have. Might end the war before the contractors back home had fleeced the taxpayers enough.

Back on topic, two low budget items that should be on everyone's list would be a good folding shovel and a woodsman's ax. Fiskars makes an excellent one with a composite handle but even a standard camping hatchet will do if you put a 24-30" handle on it.

reply to post by LLoyd45
I don't know how accurate or reliable the savage 64f is, but if it's anything like my savage 111 30-06 then it will be a very good choice. Another good choice is the ruger 10-22 at around $170. Out of the box they are extremely accurate and reliable, and you can get high capacity mags for them. I have one that i built that will put 10 shots in a quarter at 100 yds.

reply to post by LLoyd45
Oh and field surgical manuals are a dime a dozen. When TSHTF it would be a good idea to be able to do at least basic surgery. There won't be many medical personnel and they will be busier than hell, and all medical facilities will be strongly monitored.

reply to post by kosmicjack
As far as storing gas, if you must, then metal is definately the way to go. But if you live in a rural area and can afford one, and have a place to pasture it, get a horse. Their fuel grows all over the place.

reply to post by LLoyd45
Get a 9mm. The high point is cheap and it's easier to find 9mm ammo.

Also, if you can locate one, try sitting in on your local auction.

Not sure where to find an auction? No prob, just go to your nearest antique shop and ask "where's the nearest auction?" You'll probably be astounded to learn how many auctions there are, all around your location.

Once you locate your auction house and learn its schedule, go in early and examine the goods. It's not unusual to find whole lots of fishing gear, axes, knives, farming equipment, shortwave receivers, and even a few firearms from time to time. Last auction I hit, they were selling two Mossberg goose guns and a sawed-off double-barreled 12 gauge (was so old, I couldn't tell the make or model at a glance). The riot gun sold for $50, the two goose guns sold for $200. No, I didn't buy 'em, we were there for wifey items, not hubby items.

But you can walk out of those auctions with some dynamite bargains on heavy-duty gear that would cost you a buttload retail.

CRG,

Mosin's are great bolt actions, and you can also pick them up for under $60 at most gun shows. They're alot of bang for the buck!

Anuubis,

Savages are good guns period! and the Ruger 10/22 can't be beat for price, reliability, or craftsmanship. I have several 9's, but I thought KJ might prefer a slightly smaller handgun, that's why I suggested the .380.

As for the surgical manual, I don't know.. If you've had no formal medical training, you could possibly do more harm than good. I guess it would depend on how bad the situation really was.

reply to post by LLoyd45
most companies make a small version 9mm like the lady smith by smith and wesson for example. Or like my ruger P95dc, it's semi-compact but still holds 15 in the mag. My step-daughter was shooting +P loads out of it when she was 10. They usually go for about $300 new and are very reliable. It also has little recoil due to dual recoil springs.