One great thing about being backpackers and wilderness campers is that my wife and I are geared for bug-out on a moment's notice. We've accumulated a wide array of backpacks, tents, sleeping bags, emergency bivvies, first-aid kits, multi-tools, climbing rope, dehydrated foods, water pumps and UV sterilizers... All ultra-lightweight. Add to that a wardrobe of expedition-grade layered garments and goretex footwear, and we can go from sub-Sahara to sub-zero without even noticing it. Seriously.

Of course, we didn't just rush out and buy a bunch of WalMart crap — most of it is high-end wilderness gear and it's not inexpensive. The trouble with that low-end gear is that it's heavy, and a backpack full of that junk can weigh more than twice as much as the better quality gear. I mean, we're talking about 30 lbs of quality supplies versus 75 lbs of "budget" supplies. Try hauling both of those around the Selkirk Mountains for about ten days above 7000 feet altitude and then tell me which load you prefer.

Anyway, the point is that your choice of wilderness gear can either help you or hinder you in your BO.

My wife doesn't deal with weapons, so I handle the armaments, and I have to keep in mind that I'm gearing up to defend two people, not just myself. The weapons I carry for wilderness backpacking are varied, yet basic: 2 double-edged jungle daggers, a couple of razor-sharp fleshing knives, a Beretta 25 auto (mainly a noisemaker), and a Glock G36 compact 45 auto (for more, shall we say, dire situations). These firearms are relatively lightweight: the Beretta fits in the palm of your hand, and the Glock is molded of composite materials that make it about 17% lighter than an all-metal handgun. Of course, these weapons are extremely low profile.

For bug-in, the arsenal is a bit more serious. Belgian-made Browning Hi-Power 9mm, Walther PPK 380, Ruger 357 snub, S&W 38 snub, Rem 870 Police Magnum, FN Tactical Police 12 gauge, and the trusty Bushmaster M4. Holographic optics, thank you very much. Just enough to deal with looters, I think, if they happen to be rogue African elephants.

Certainly, this amount of preparation requires a thoughtful investment of time and money, and doesn't address the question of immediate prep.

If I was on a very short deadline and I was completely unprepared, first thing I'd do is take a hundred or so bucks down to the pawn shop and pick up a 12 gauge shotgun. No permits required, and only about a 10 minute background check by phone. If you can't wait for ammo from Cheaper than Dirt, then go to WalMart and purchase as much cheap buckshot as you can afford. Good thing about a shotgun is that you don't have to be a marksman — just point that bastard in a general direction and fire.

Next I'd head for the nearest discount/salvage grocery (they're everywhere, you just have to ask your neighbors) and buy up as many canned goods as you can afford — lot of juices, soups, deviled ham, stuff like that. First-aid supplies, too, rubbing alcohol and mouthwash, etc. Don't waste your money on water for petesake, that stuff falls out of the sky. Salvage groceries are going to be, like, 50% cheaper than the regular supermarkets on every item. Don't hesitate to buy canned pet foods, too — when things get rough, that canned glop is going to look mighty good, and you may even be able to trade it.

Somebody else posted a list of barter items, which is a good idea, but I didn't see ammo on that list. If you can afford a lot of cheap ammo — even for guns you don't have — I say buy it. Like, 410 shells and 22 rounds. Buy the crap out of that stuff, and use it like money later. I think that most average citizens aren't going to own heavy firearms, mainly they'll have little 22 handguns and rifles and small shotguns. I'm speaking from what I know my neighbors keep for home protection. Those folks have some kind of small firearm and one or two boxes of ammo collecting dust on the top shelf. These are the people who are going to come looking for ammunition later, and they'll trade just about anything for it.

Speaking of units of trade, I thought very seriously about buying gold for a while — you know, the small gold coins —not so much for the long-term investment but to use as currency in a post-meltdown world. Bad idea. Use that gold just one time and you'll be marked as "the guy with the gold," which will attract all the wrong kinds of people (i.e. BGs). Even after your gold runs out, your reputation will linger, and you'll be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life. Better to stick with bartering toilet paper and toothpaste than gold.




[edit on 6/20/2008 by Doc Velocity]

And one more thing... I've actually heard of survivor-wanna-bees stockpiling booze. Now, this is like the worst idea I can think of. In a post-meltdown world, the last thing you want to do is lose your wits. And, like hoarding gold, stockpiling booze or drugs is going to make you a target.

As far as I'm concerned, getting wasted is a luxury of civilization, it's what you do when you have the safety net of law enforcement and medical care to save you from yourself. Yeah, you might wake up in jail or in rehab, but at least you're still alive.

But taking a risk like that in a jungle is a good way to get your ass eaten alive — in a world where your every decision can mean life or death, it would be suicide to cloud your judgment with booze or drugs or any sort of intoxicant. I mean, if the apocalypse isn't enough to cure your substance abuse problem, you're a lost cause anyway.




[edit on 6/21/2008 by Doc Velocity]

Heres some basics. I bought most of this stuff at Wal-Mart it didn't set me back too far.

Tent- $30
Fishing Pole- $20
Axe- $6
Tackle Box- $5
Tarp- $5
Cooking Pans- $5
Flashlights- Package of 3 -$6
Sleeping Bag (0 Degrees Farenheight) $30
Lots and lots of canned food and rice
I also buy gallons of water for 68 cents as well as repleneshing empty containers with tap water
Ramen!!!!!

Knowing that you can last a couple weeks before acquiring more things.....Priceless!

More suggestions

Car Battery Inverter
Car Battery (3)
Car Battery Charger
Propane Grill
Propane
Lighter Fluid
Shovel
Alluminum Foil
Misc Tools and parts
Plywood
Crank up Flashlight/Radio
Flares
I-Pod/Potable DVD Player/ Laptop Computer
Knives
Seeds and a home grown planting kit
Tobacco
Coffee
Marijuana

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

If I was on a very short deadline and I was completely unprepared, first thing I'd do is take a hundred or so bucks down to the pawn shop and pick up a 12 gauge shotgun. No permits required, and only about a 10 minute background check by phone.
[edit on 6/20/2008 by Doc Velocity]

The problem is, that when TSHTF, the President is going to declare Marshall Law. Then most likely they are going to give Americans a few days to turn over ALL private guns. After that, either U.S., Blackwater, or foreign troops are going to be going property by property (or first by whomever is on the "Main Core" database of gun owners, radicals [like ATS members], etc.) doing a search for contraband.

In most other countries (like Latin America), when the troops came around and found a gun, they just shot you.

Believe it that somewhere in the govt., that "background check" info went into a database, and even though most states are supposed to purge that info after a given period (5 years, for example), don't count on it. Plan on turning over "those" guns or have some very good excuses for what happened to them.

That's why many people want a non-FFL, face-to-face private gun transaction, in those states/areas that still allow it. Why do you think most states have banned non-FFL sales at "Gun Shows". Why do you think the Assault Rifle Ban, just re-introduced in Washington, would require that you have a "Proof of Legal Purchase" for any Assault-style weapons in your collection, otherwise you will have to turn them over.

Our gun "laws" have never been about keeping crime down and people safe. They have been about letting the government know who has purchased firearms. For moments like we will see in the near future.

By-the-way, if you follow people like Steve Quayle ("The Qfiles"), then be warned that today was "wet your diapers" day. This weekend could very well be the last days available to get whatever you were going to get to be "prepared" for whatever it was you were trying to prepare for.

Remember that the Democratic Convention will be starting soon (a great time for a "False Flag" event to happen [Denver is the fallback U.S. Capitol in case something happens to Washington, DC.]) as well as the Supreme Court's final ruling on the Second Amendment (which is either going to make guns easier to get or a lot harder to get).

This would be a great time to hit the warehouse stores for those last bulk food/water/drink/hygiene items, the outdoor superstore for some Grizzly Bear Pepper Spray/machete/axe, and the home center for some extra plywood to cover those windows and doors. And stop by the Coin shop to trade your last few bucks for some Precious Metals (cause when Marshall Law is declared, the Executive Orders are already in place allowing them to take control of all monetary assets, not to mention that the dollar will be [is already] worthless).

I can say this about door-to-door search and seizure of firearms: If you give up your weapon, you're dead anyway. So you need to make a decision.

Realistically, there is no way in hell that our government — including all the personnel from all branches of law enforcement and the military — could possibly confiscate the volume of privately-owned firearms in the United States. We're talking about nearly 300 million guns owned by nearly 90 million Americans. Our government just doesn't have the manpower, even IF all those personnel cooperated.

Beyond that, any American who voluntarily gives up his firearms at the onset of some declaration of martial law is an idiot who deserves whatever cruel fate awaits him. When your guns are gone and your community is beset by mobs of looters and vandals, it's a really, really bad time to start reconsidering your Constitutionally-granted rights.

Besides, I don't believe that the gigantic number of legal gun owners in this country are going to give up without a fight. Call it a New American Revolution, or call it The Civil War Part II... Whatever you call it, you'd better believe that there are a lot more military veterans than there are active duty military. Millions more. And I think they'd obey their personal sense of patriotism before knuckling under to some socialist-mandated, nationwide gun confiscation. We're talking about an armed population that could wipe out practically all of the infantry on Earth, as long as we just pointed our guns in the same direction.

And then what? Will our unconstitutional emergency government bring in the heaviest weaponry and start obliterating the suburbs and little towns all across America? Talk about a fiasco — what a mistake! Because, then, all bets are off, there's no turning back, and they'll have a full-bore armed rebellion of millions of enraged citizens. What, I wonder, are "acceptable casualties" when a government declares war against its own people?

Read survival with style by Bradford Angier. He taught the Marines how to do it.

He has a lot of other books to.

With that book, a sheet of plastic, a pen knife, some twine, and appropriate clothing, you have a chance of surviving anywhere in the world without preparation.

Learn to make a bow and arrows, a crossbow, and other basic items, like containers. Baskets, bowls and jars. Learn to fish, hunt, forage and garden.

Do not confront anyone.
Be willing to surrender every and anything to anyone rather than sustain damage.
Do not appear to be doing better than those around you.
Be generous with what you know, and helpful to those around you.
Be prepared to display at any moment the improbability of your being picked over successfully without the other party sustaining heavy damage.

Keep friends alive. With unity comes survivabilty.
Leave no one behind, lest you be left behind yourself.

Originally posted by Cyberbian
Be willing to surrender every and anything to anyone rather than sustain damage.

Most of what he says seems reasonable, except the quote above. That sounds like NWO propaganda there. I'm not surrendering anything to anybody, and the only damage inflicted will be by me upon the interlopers. What is he suggesting here, giving up your weapons and ammo and food to anybody rather than risking your life? Sorry, survivorman, but you occasionally have to break some eggs (and heads) to secure whatever quality of life you've chosen to protect.

Surrender everything to the barbarians, and they'll cook your ass over your own fire and eat you with your own silverware. Not in this life, kids.

Giving advice on survival in a post apocalyptic World, is difficult at best. Everyone has there own ideas on the subject, and what works for one situation or person, may not work for another.

For example..personally, I'd never consider using ammunition as a bartering good. Do you really want to arm your competitors for survival? What's to prevent them from using the ammo you provided them with against you? It's the equivalent of giving someone a knife to slit your throat.

Alcohol is another bad idea. Do you really want a bunch of pissed off drunks in your vicinity? Alcohol lowers peoples inhibitions, and allows them to say and do things they normally wouldn't do. Keep it for your own recreational purposes or as an antiseptic. Don't fuel the fire, or contribute to the chaos around you.

To suggest not stockpiling water is ludicrous. Yes, it falls from the sky, but it doesn't rain all the time. If you have no means of catching it or storing it, you'll be screwed and most likely die of dehydration. You can live a couple of months on very little food, but you'd be dead in less than a week without water..

Water is also required for proper digestion and sanitation. If you have no water, don't eat. You'll be worse off for it if you do.

As for guns, You don't need an elephant rifle or a high end hand gun like a Glock or Sig Sauer to survive. A good Ruger 10/22 rifle ($180.00), and A Hi-Point C9 pistol ($130) will cover most of your defensive and hunting needs. A 12 or 20 gauge would be a welcome addition for up close and personal encounters.

You can get a Mossberg 20 gauge for under $200 just about anywhere. The 20 gauge is smaller, has less recoil than the 12, and is more suitable for small males or women. I'm assuming you're a woman KJ.

The idea is not to be Rambo, just prepared for all possible scenarios. Avoid encounters if possible, but don't surrender your gear and supplies just to avoid a conflict. If their desperate enough to rob you, they'll probably kill you as well. Why do you think it's a cardinal rule for law enforcement officers to never surrender their weapon?

At least give yourself a fighting chance. There are much worse things in life than death. Just do a Google search on how people who cooperate with their attackers typically end up tortured, beaten, raped, and then left to die like a dog.

A truckload of gear won't keep you alive, if you don't know the basics. Learn the basic survival skills first. Buy the best gear you can afford. Everyone can't afford Kelty packs or high dollar water filters. Use your brain and improvise if you must. Mountain men survived quite well with little more than a possible bag, a knife, a fire starting kit, and a rifle.

Survival is a mindset. If you truly want to survive you will. It may force you to step outside of your comfort zone though. You could survive on nothing more than worms and bugs for food if you really had to.

learn to trap with snares and deadfalls. These techniques will provide you a much more stable food supply than hunting will.



[edit on 6/21/08 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by LLoyd45
I'd never consider using ammunition as a bartering good. Do you really want to arm your competitors for survival? What's to prevent them from using the ammo you provided them with against you? It's the equivalent of giving someone a knife to slit your throat.

I'm not talking about opening a trading post at the crossroads and trading ammo to nomads and strangers. I'm talking about trading ammo within your immediate community, trading to your neighbors if they need it. A strong neighborhood is better than just one guy on the block owning all the weapons and ammo.

Originally posted by LLoyd45
To suggest not stockpiling water is ludicrous. Yes, it falls from the sky, but it doesn't rain all the time.

No, I didn't say not to stockpile water. I said don't waste your money on it. There's a difference. You can sock back enough water to last for months right out of your tap at a fraction of the cost of bottled, store-bought water. There are suppliers out there who sell 55 gallon plastic barrels that you just stick in your basement or garage and then fill with a garden hose. Makeshift cisterns for rain collection is another option. I have a well under my house that's still very much alive (although the pump was removed decades ago), so I'm not terribly worried about water. A quality microfilter water pump is a lifesaver, though, it'll get you through anything, even if the well goes bad.

[edit on 6/21/2008 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by Anuubis
The boyscout manual is a good idea but a military survival manual will most likely be easier to get a hold of.

I chose the Boy Scout manual because it's easy to read, has lots of illustrations, and is cheap. Ebay has at least a dozen of them at any given time for under $5. The Army Survival manual is good, I have it as well, but is a little harder to follow.

Instead of wasting water for personal hygiene use baby wipes, you can easily pack them if you need to move fast.

That's a good idea and very practical. You can even make your own cheaply, if you're of a mind to.

Wool blankets are a great idea but some people are allergic to wool, so get fleace if you can afford it.

I like wool because it's very warm and somewhat water resistant. If you're allergic to it though, than fleece is also a good choice. Keep in mind though, it's highly flammable unlike wool, and will catch fire and melt if you're not careful around flames.

Boots are better than shoes because shoes don't give good enough ankle support if your running in the woods.

boots are better, but they're also heavier. If you're travelling a lot, every ounce of weight will make a difference. I like low top hiking boots myself.

200 rounds for a pistol won't last very long if you get into deep #, and most people have a high enough tollerance for pain to withstand being shot with a .22 so go with an m4 or ruger mini-14. It has enough power to incapacitate most people with 1 or 2 shots and has longer range with better accuracy. Then you can skip the shotgun and save some weight for ammo.

200 rounds is a minimum, carry more if you can tolerate the extra weight. The goal is to avoid firefights though if possible.

Some people may be able to tolerate than pain of being shot with a .22 round, but not many will willingly do so. A .22 will kill a person to with good shot placement.

M4's and Mini-14's are nice choices, but cost a lot. The OP said money is a consideration, and for what the typical M4 costs (i.e $1,500), she could have a Mossberg 20 gauge ($190), a Hi-Point 9mm ($130), and a Hi-Point 995 carbine ($160), and a couple of cases of ammo for each.

Before the criticisms begin, I own several Hi-Points, and they're excellent guns. Just make sure you get the newer, polymer framed C9 pistols.

Side note:
The mags from the rifle will also fit the pistol.



[edit on 6/21/08 by LLoyd45]