Former Senator Mike Gravel Calls For Independent 9/11 Investigation, Prosecution of Bush & Cheney

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Lightworth, 95% of the mass of UAL93 was recovered from Shanksville.

I believe this is actually false. Many debunkers say this. But, they are going off a quote that says something like "95% of the plane that was recovered was handed over to United". Not that 95% of the plane was recovered.

At a news conference, FBI agent Bill Crowley said that the field near Shanksville, Somerset County, has been turned over to the county coroner and that 95 percent of the plane found at the site has been turned over to United Airlines.

www.thepittsburghchannel.com...

That is the quote where debunkers come to the conclusion that 95% of the plane was found. Notice the wording. It says 95 percent of the plane found at the site was handed over. Meaning that if they recovered 100 pounds of the plane, 95 pounds was handed over. Not that 95% of the entire plane was recovered.

It's called Orwellian speak used to confuse the gullible. I'm not saying you weedwhacker.

Really....you should do some real research, and not rely on bogus sites who don't know what the hell they're talking about, most of the time, or intentionally lie in order to sell books.

No offense, but the same can be said of the debunkers.


[edit on 6/20/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by LEAP STICK
FFS, how many Investigations can you have about one event.

Only one is needed if it's complete and transparent. With all data freely given and not hiden.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


we need justice imo..

we need NESARA now!
www.nesara.us...

look into it

take care all

With all due respect to everyone here and out there, we were attacked on 9/11, plain and simple by a terrorist group called Al-Qaeda, for those who might have forgotten or have chosen to ignore in an interest of a political agenda or whatever agenda you may have. It has been 7 years since that fateful day but yet these senseless conspiracies, calls for investigations, etc etc seem to grow. It's time to focus on the million other issues facing the world today rather than living in the past. Whenver Bush Adminsitration has referred to 9/11, it has been used against them to say they they are fear mongering, so now I ask the same question to all of you out there who keep re-hashing 9/11 to open up yet another investigation, to impeach Bush, etc etc, aren't you using 9/11 for political reasons? Time to move on people.

I for one just want to see George W. Bush have to stand in front of a Congressional panel and try to explain the molten hot steel and all of the traces of high grade Thermite that has been seen, photographed and proven to be present in the towers....namely how and why it appears in building 7, which was not even hit by a plane.


The chirade has gone on for long enough....time for somebody to answer some hard questions.

Okay first, the names they are suggesting to go into this new investigative panel are people who are far from impartial to a fair investigation.

Lori Van Auken - a 9/11 widow

Lincoln Chafee - Former Republican senator with a long history of defying Republican leadership. Known as RINO (Republican In Name Only);

Thomas Gumbleton - Arrested outside the White House for civil disobedience protesting the Iraq War

Did you guys read the interview with Gravel? Gravel sounds a bit ... um ... out of his mind.

Government—90 percent of what the government does is held secret. It’s a whole cult. And that’s the thing that is really strangling our democracy, that we just don’t know what’s going on. And so, you need to rip off the scab and see the wound of what the government is damaging. And so, it’s a cult. And I don’t know how I can phrase it. I’ve written about the subject.

When I was—here, best example I can give you. When I was twenty-three years old, I was in a communications intelligence service. I was an agitant of the communications intelligence service, and I was a top-secret control officer. I was twenty-three years old. Now, I’m forty-two years old, I’m a United States senator, and I could not go in and take notes and read the Pentagon Papers, because they were under guard in the Senate. Now, does it get any stupider than that? And that—and I didn’t even go in. When that was—Nixon sent them to the House, sent them to the Senate, and no staff could read it or senator could read it, couldn’t even take notes. I mean, we are so steeped in this.

And when you hear—and keep this in mind, Amy, any member of the Congress could release any secret about the government’s activities right today, because the court case, the Supreme Court ruled in my case 5-4 that a senator, under—or a House member, under the speech and debate clause of the Constitution of the United States, could not be held accountable. I was talking to Congressman Moran, and he had made the statement, “Well, you know, George Bush is about to do something in Iran.” I said, “My god! Say something about it. They can’t touch you.”

Something else I wanted to say - just an observation, really.

I can see a lot of you are so far into your hatred for Bush/Cheney that even if some how, some way, proof was shown that
* Iraq DID in fact have WMDs and
* Iraq DID harbor terrorists who took part in the attacks on 9/11 and
* the attacks WERE shown NOT to be an inside job, then

you Bush haters would still not be able to let go of your hate and anger because you've had it so long that it's become a part of you, like a second skin. I really do feel sorry for you.

reply to post by sos37


Nonsense. I'm sure most people would just like to see something solid and believable one way or another. I'd be perfectly glad to find out the Bush League is innocent... We need something better than the equivalent of the idea of babies coming from the Stork (like aircraft that can "vaporize"). How does a mere jet fuel/kerosene fire (along with whatever it ignited) burn for 8 weeks or more; and melt rubber boots?

(Headed out for awhile, but will check back).

Originally posted by sos37
Something else I wanted to say - just an observation, really.

I can see a lot of you are so far into your hatred for Bush/Cheney that even if some how, some way, proof was shown that
* Iraq DID in fact have WMDs and
* Iraq DID harbor terrorists who took part in the attacks on 9/11 and
* the attacks WERE shown NOT to be an inside job, then

you Bush haters would still not be able to let go of your hate and anger because you've had it so long that it's become a part of you, like a second skin. I really do feel sorry for you.

OK smart man that knows it all since you've insulted everyone here. look below and respond to this

WAR = SHOWS HATE ... HATE LEADS TO WAR. (lesson for you today)


GOD..............................
You make it sound like everyone in THIS world is crazy for being human. Guilty for expressing what they are feeling. Dissmissing what they see on reality. You degrade our anger of what we see around us, for something we actually should be very distressed about. We happen to live on this planet. We don't like one bit of the last 8 years. We don't like their behaviour and the malicous tactics which was, for thier benifets and needs, not the people's needs or desires. We didn't want this war, or it to be handled like this either. The world has turned into a fighting playground for money, power and oil. It has to stop, to many innocent's are dying, for this false crap "war on terror".

Bush and Cheney have lied to their own people on this war. They went against their own people on this war. They disrespected the decision of the people in this. They made their own decisions and to hell what America or the world thought. This means they are disrepectful and stupid. They have turned your country into a dictatorship almost.

Yet we and your nation have to deal with the consquences. Why should we be the ones who should deal with something we did not cause or want. So yes I'm angry and we are all very angry because of it, all because of those abominations, and its makes me really angry that they are not reprimaned right this second. They should held responsible for their destructive actions. IMMEDIATLEY.

The last 8 years was nothing but, trickery, provoking, terrorising, lying and killing. These men are incompetent, implusive, inconsiderate, irrational, ignorant, decietful, disrepectul, obnoxious, insensitive, destructive, tyrannical, narrow minded, demonic and selfish.

They have FAILED everything. The only thing the did ACHIEVED in the last 8 years, was go to war............... Your post is hideous and ignorant.

Get real. The World is an absaloute MESS now. The hatred is caused by their own actions. Its not about hating them in a literal sense. Its hating what they do, and what they did. And God I hate when people who stick their head in the sand like you, and people like you praising this unacceptable behaviour. The Administration has projected all the hate onto the world. DON'T ever forget that and we have to deal with it.


Your Observation is false. What does Iran got to do with 9/11. What does Saddam got to do with 9/11.
Did you speak to those terrorists? and who are the terrorists? Do you know for a fact they were from Iraq? Where are they now? Did they get those involved? Were they one of the men in the 650,00 people that are now dead????

What does Bush and Cheney care if Saddam had WMDs. The administration has wiped out a large chunk of the population with enough weapons of their own. Bush was going in there anyway to complete his mission, and don't deny it, OIL again. He went against the people of his country and went against the UN. And even changed the laws to make himself a "dictator" almost. And you expect people to love him. Have you ever known the power of awarneness, you should learn it.

Now please read this. Especially you sos37. What justification for any of this, to allow 650,000 civilian people to die or 3,000 of your fellow Americans perish too for Bush's war. His decision, not America. Is this respect? Should people love him?

This war was about oil. Are you hearing this. There is no proof of WMDs either. If there was, Saddam traded them with your friends in America. You know America sell weapons and arms to many dictators over the world. stop lying to yourself and sprouting crap. The reality is this war was scandalous and evil. This war will create more terrorism. This war will create more resentment towards America. This war has created more grief for the families that live in Iraq. This war has successfully divided the world and destroyed any possibilty of peace .America is terrorising the middleast, This war will not solve anything. This has to stop. People need to behaving like adults and not preistoric hunter gatherers.


So the World's anger is well justified. So how dare you belittles what people are feeling. I actually feel worse for you. As your ignorance to the world is hostile and vile. You have no empathy or understanding of the reality. You refuse to face the fact that this war, is madness. This war has made things worse. So its you who is lost and deluded in your very own skin. You refuse to believe that the Bush's Administration on defeating terrorism was trickery and lies. War does not work. It never had and never will. If anyone is not angry about this war, is not really human.



WAR ON TERROR = TERRORISING ON TERROR.






[edit on 21-6-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
Mad_Hatter: It doesnt matter either way. Gravel is doing this in an attempt to be politically relevant again. How do I know? I work in circles that contain political consultants who recommend this sort of strategy, and I've recommended it myself.

I worked as a consultant for a state representative between college and graduate school. I worked on a larger team of people that did consulting. Obviously I wasn't senior enough to make direct recommendations, but I had enough connections to make sure my suggestions that were taken seriously. The politician was struggling to remain in the news and get media attention, and had apathetic supporters. Since the district was known to mostly contain highly liberal enclaves (university towns, etc.), we encouraged him to drop hints that he believed in the 9/11 truth movement and make absolute rants against the Bush administration on every possible occasion, even though none of us nor him believed in the truth movement or had a seething hatred for Bush. And even though he had no real power over national politics at his level.

It worked like a charm. Truthers are generally driven by hatred and rage, when you give them the appearance that you agree with their hatred they will blindly support you. I won't claim that truthers helped turn the election results through such manipulation, but as part of a larger political strategy to appeal to radicals its a good plan.

Why? Because truthers are being manipulated by the politicians like a fiddle, and your all oblivious to it. Concentrations of truthers work like zombie armies: completely loyal to the politicians that feed them little bits and pieces of what they want to hear. If the truthers think you actually care about their cause, they'll support you on absolutely everything else.

Its political manipulation at its finest, and a its the type of thing politicians dream about. Feed a group of people their hatred back to them - in this case, blame Bush/Cheney for everything and claim that 9/11 was a massive conspiracy - and they are completely loyal to you. It requires little to no action beyond speeches, and if you live in a very liberal area you can get away with it and not hit the media's radar that your pandering to the conspiracy theorist demographic.

If you seriously think the so called "politicians" who support the truth movement are in this for anything other than their personal political goals and are exploiting you, you truly don't understand politics. Its not personal - politicians do this to all radical fringe groups who operate off of highly charged negative emotion focused at one target (usually passionate people based on positive emotions are not politically involved).

[edit on 19-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Wow!! I truely don't know where to begin.
O.K. Let's start here.
Do you have even an ounce of proof for ANY of this??
Where are you getting this info if not from a delusional mind?
You make so many far out claims here I truely am at a loss of what I want
proof of most. Let's start here, Prove anything that you claim in this post.
Anything at all. And we shall go from there.
How about proving that you worked as a consultant for a state rep??
Or how about this one

Truthers are generally driven by hatred and rage, when you give them the appearance that you agree with their hatred they will blindly support you.

Is this strictly your opinion?
You're entitled to believe in whatever you want. That doesn't make it true. In fact, when you believe in things that are not true, it just hurts your credibility.
Actually, I have pretty easy standards of evidence. Prove that truthers are generally driven by hatred and rage,and that when you give them the appearance that you agree with their hatred they will blindly support you.and you will have been the first person on ATS to ever have done so.

Unfortunately for you, I've yet to see a single thing on there that can be construed as truth.I don't take to well to propaganda, I'm used to examining the evidence.
ATS is not anyones personal soapbox to opine and shut out people who demand to see evidence. I await your reply.

woah, way to go gravel!!!

i have my doubts though, if they were able to hoax that much of our country and get away with it THIS far... they probably have ways of dealing with an emergency like gravel getting in their way! Although they might seem dumb based on what they're doing, they're actually a complex web of very intelligent men. And they won't let gravel ruin anything for them. but perhaps gravel will open some of the people's eyes

reply to post by Griff


Griff, then I guess we'd have to ask Bill Crowley, FBI Agent, to state specifically whether or whether not he meant to say it that way, the comment about 95%.

People's comments get misconstrued all the time (even here on ATS threads). Just look at the hub-hub over Michelle obama's comments recently.

And governor bush (I refuse to call him a president) gets off scott-free, with so many 'bushisms' and hardly a notice. Surprised he hasn't blurted out the truth yet...he's stupid enough, maybe we should just give him some time.

Latest...on his role in the Mideast peace process:

"I can press when there needs to be pressed; I can hold hands when there needs to be ---- hold hands" January, 2008

'Nuf said about that numbnuts!!

911 was a nice banquet of Bull# and the world is waking up to the fact. All of these leaders and yet nothing to this day has come of it, hell 60 Minutes came out and proved the Iraqi War was based on false Intel. provided by a CI that wanted asylum in the US and still nothing. Our Congress is protecting the Corporations who staged this entire thing. How could anyone in their right mind believe for a second that the building that held proof that the American people were ripped off WTC#7 just fell to the ground. How convenient at a time when TYCO, Worldcom, Enron, AT&T, Ford, TYCOM, Comcast, Lucent and many others had just had massive downsizes throwing our entire nations workforce out on there ass. These workers lost all, most had to cash in what was left of their 401K to survive, most lost all of their stock portfolio, many lost their families, lost homes, some committed suicide, others went to jail for crimes they committed trying to make ends meet, those who cashed in 401K had to eat penalties and then pay into the Fed. again because it was counted as income as if 28% tax the first time wasn't enough. Less we forget the 4000+ soldiers who have been killed, the wounded, and 3000+ murdered at Ground Zero all so these Corporate CE Os can make more and more. Yet our Congress who's job it is to protect the people do nothing and continue to hold on to the big lie in fear of their pocketbook not getting filled. Yes we all know and you could choke on the proof but not one in a position of power has the guts to expose these people or come forward with the truth of proof. Just show me one clear picture of a commercial airliner hitting the Pentagon or a exact replica built be engineers of the WTC event after all we can send a man to the Moon, can't we rebuild a smaller scale of the Twin Towers and fly a remote plane into them to recreate the event. Face it, We've been Sold OUT!!!!

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


I am sure all of you know about an assassination of a John Kennedy. There were several government sponsored investigations. And all of these found exactly what all of us were told just after the assassination. Each of you must try to understand that any government which can assassinate a sitting president can in effect do what ever they want to and make the investigations say the party line.
Where did the wings and tail of the “transport” disappear to that hit the pentagon.
Merlin

If there ever is or will be an official inquiry about the 9/11 bomb-job, it would be wise to first-of-all, begin with Larry Silverstein.

It is him and his insurance clowns who have made $billions out of this tragedy

I fear that any investigation into what really happened on 9-11 will lead to the regurgitation of the lies we've been hearing for the past 7 years.

I'm skeptical, but hopeful.

reply to post by DarthChrisious


All we have is hope that it is possible to find the truth and to seek justice.

At least Mike Gravel is bringing these issues to the attention of people who would not have otherwise heard or taken these issues seriously.

Also, he doesn't sound crazy to me. He sounds like someone who knows first-hand about a lot of things most people don't know and understand. Sometimes when someone says something that is outside of a person's frame of reference they are judged to sound wacko. One doesn't have to believe, but one should use their own brain and consider things instead of making assumptions, otherwise one will always be easy to manipulate.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I agree. We'd have to get his take on it.

I'm surprised "skeptics" take the word of reporters in the MSM. The same MSM that told us of the "explosions", "b"s at the State Department. Etc. on 9/11 that they poo-poo because reporters are rarely correct.

When it comes to secondhand information from the MSM, do they always get it right? It seems, depending on your views, they do.

I don't mean you WW. I'm talking about the universal "you".

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

David Icke has written at length abt this. He's written numerous books and made a few movies. The deeper you look, the more rotten it gets.
The flight #s mentioned that went into the WTC, Pentagon and Pennsylvania countryside were not assigned on 9-11-01. A security camera;s pic not taken in the coverup showed a cruisemissile going into the Pentagon. The ground hole in PA, no airplane would leave a mark like that. As soon as the wing of a jetliner would strike the tower, it would explode out in the direction it came from. A close exam of the action shot of one of the planes striking the WTC tower showed it melting into it like butter on to toast. The holes in the "official" story make a siv look watertight. It's like the killing of JFK, anyplace you look or what info is not available, the coverstory is facile pathetically! Powerstructures can do anything to suit their agenda. The USA wasn't arrogant or sloppy, the airforce just laid edown and let it happen! The war in Iraq is part of the agenda. The towers were either blown by planted explosive or the support column were crumbled by infrasound, low frequency sound that can sicken, kill people or shatter matter like a singer's note shattering a crystal glass This technology goes back at least to WWII. So much is possible, the avg person is blissfully ignorant. thankyou