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U.S.A Versus Russia in an all out War?

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posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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[snip]

Wow...where did you come from? Lol. I wish I would've found those Articles sooner...I knew about the Star Wars Defense but I didn't think that'd be viable for me to use, especially with all the smart ass critics out here who are quick to try and point out my faults because of my post. However, in doing so they point out their own ignorance.


Mod Edit - Trimmed Quote.....

YOu can use the [REPLY TO] button instead of posting a large quote


[edit on 18-6-2008 by elevatedone]

[edit on 18-6-2008 by elevatedone]




posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by Arc Angel
1.) The United States Economy surpasses Russian Economy by more than 10 fold in terms of GDP.


Does that really matter in a war?



2.) 3.7% of our GDP goes to our defense budget, yet our defense budget is SO HUGE if you put all of the world's military budgets together you'd only match it. And that's only using 3.7% of our Economy, during WW2 we were using 30% of our GDP to fund the war effort.


Yes we do spend more than anybody else and we have alot of ability to project power but we lack the ability to invade Russia or China on any meaningfull scale



4.) The US Power Projection Cababilities are unmatched. 11 Carrier battlegroups (Russia, by the way, only has 1 Aircraft carrier which is old. We have 22 Aircraft carriers, 11 of them nucleared powered and containing the most sophysicated weapon systems known to man).


Really at last count the US had a total of 11 carrier strike groups not 22. Several are in or entering overhaul status so not all 11 are avalible at every time. Im not sure where you got you number of 22 but since WWII no navy has fielded that many carrier at one time



5.) "What about if they nuke us?" We shot down, with a single destroyer, a sattelite from outer #ing space! Trust me, no missiles are getting through our defense systems. We have missiles designed to go after other missiles and blow them up,


Given the number of interceptors at Ft. Greely and at Vandenberg, given the current operational plan we can shoot down 5-6 missiles Most scenarios envision 2 missiles shot at each in bound as the missiles would not have the cross range speed needed to fire one at a time in the event of a miss. As impressive as the satelite shootdown was the plans are for 15 destroyers will have the RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 required for ballistic missile intercepts. My understanding is each of those destroyers (either Tico or Arleigh Burke) will have 20-30 oeprationa RIM-161 each. assuming that each ship is out to sea and every ABM works with 100% accuracy its still not enough to intercept every Russian ICBM. You also understand I assume that the sea based BMD works in the midcourse ascent phase so they would have to be foreward deployed to be effective.

As far as laser weaponry, You or I cannot speculate but have to deal with the hear and now



6.) "What if they built up their #'s then declared war?" Well, we have Apaches that can single handedly take out an entire tank column.


Hmmm the Apaches combat record being foreward deployed was less than stellar in Iraq, Im not sure how well they would fare against a combined arms foe at all. yes we have all sorts of fun toys but the Russians have plenty of counters avalible to them too. Yes thier navy is a shadow of its former self, and its doubtfull htey can project power its enough to defend thier coast line and front live subs have gotten quieter.


Anyone who disagrees is wrong.


You may want to put down that clancy book and do some real research before you post again. :shk:


1.) Clancy has been under review from the FBI and CIA for some of the stuff he publishes in his books. I think his information is quite accurate.

2.) Economy matters a big deal in war. W/o Economy, you can have no logistical support. W/o logistics, your Army is doomed to fail. There's alot more to war then just an Army, war isn't a Command and Conquer game. As for the Apaches, during Desert Storm we flew in columns of those things to take out tank columns and such. This tactic was highly successful.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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In case of a conventional war:
Of course the American Airforce and Navy is very advanced. The airforce is probably the must important weapon. The Russians designed a lot of new radar technology, but I doubt if these new radars are good enough to detect a F22 or B2. Also take in mind that the US probably has probably already something even better then these (unacknowledged black weapon systems). I think that the US Airforce would be able to do bombardments in Russia. Probably, the US is also very strong in electronic warfare and perhaps will be able to put the entire Russian electric military systems down.
The navy will have to deal with submarines, what is not easy. And the aircraft carriers are only useful when the total information system is destroyed first. In first days of war, the carriers are useless. They are to easy targets for advanced weapon systems.
But when it comes to a true ground war, the US will have to start conscription. Russia is too large in size for the current US Army to occupy all Russian cities. At least not in large enough numbers to really control the area and do something agianst guerllia attacks and partizans.
So, probably the US will achieve air superiority and be able to attack Russia from the air. In current status they are not capable however to do a real war on the ground. Let alone if China with it's population of 1.3 billion would intervene. Then the US has way to less manpower.

Now back to reality: Of course, I don't see a war between the US and Russia happen. No one wants WW3. "War is the history of men, peace is the dream of the wise." Let we be the wise.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by lightyears
 


Stealth is relatively easy detect when you realize that such an aircraft is at exactly that location on radar, which shows there is nothing. Obviously it still requires a special kind of radar, but it is possible.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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i love your patriotism, and trust me, i bleed the red white and blue.. but Russia has stated that if a war were to break out with the United States there would not be a conventional war, there would be in fact a nuclear one. I'm not too sure a satellite shot out of the sky automatically gives us a shield so to say. You have to remember that in order for them to take that shot from the destroyer, they had to wait for the conditions to be just right (weather, calm oceans), this doesn't mean were just go gung ho and gun slinging our missiles. I'm sick of people posting these threads, like which country has the best special forces. All it turns into is a dick measuring contest that will get 200 replies of my dad would kick your dad's ass.

that's just my two copper Lincolns

-J



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Arc Angel
 


"the US is smart and likes to waste other country's resources before we waste ours. "

And America wonders why the rest of the world hates it.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Arc Angel
Economy matters a big deal in war. W/o Economy, you can have no logistical support. W/o logistics, your Army is doomed to fail. There's alot more to war then just an Army, war isn't a Command and Conquer game. As for the Apaches, during Desert Storm we flew in columns of those things to take out tank columns and such. This tactic was highly successful.


I already mentioned this to you but I will mention it again. If there were to be a war, you would have no economy. China for sure, and parts of Europe would pull the plug on it. Your Apaches are more than useless if you can't afford the gas to get them off the ground.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Rook1545

Originally posted by Arc Angel
Economy matters a big deal in war. W/o Economy, you can have no logistical support. W/o logistics, your Army is doomed to fail. There's alot more to war then just an Army, war isn't a Command and Conquer game. As for the Apaches, during Desert Storm we flew in columns of those things to take out tank columns and such. This tactic was highly successful.


I already mentioned this to you but I will mention it again. If there were to be a war, you would have no economy. China for sure, and parts of Europe would pull the plug on it. Your Apaches are more than useless if you can't afford the gas to get them off the ground.


How would we have no Economy? China is dependent on us, not the other way around. Yes, they have alot of OUR money. It is OUR money that keeps THEIR Economy going. US is the largest Importer and 2nd largest Exporter, however our GDP far surpasses the Chinese and Russians put together. Remember how Capitalist societies work, GDP right?

The way I look at it when people say that China has alot of our money is not that they own us, but more like we gave them a loan that they'll never be able to pay back. US dumps alot of money on the Chinese market, however it is still US money. Take that money away and the Chinese market collapses.

Also, we entered WW2 in the Midst of the Great Depression. Do I need to explain how WW2 turned out?

This article is "USA Versus Russia in an all out war." not "USA Versus Russia but then China steps in and Europe says they won't help but really doesn't matter because we only rely on them as a buffer zone."



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by Arc Angel
 


Arc Angel,

This is exactly what would happen!

NOTHING

Why because every war that has ever happened was pre-planned and the outcome pre-determined.

Everything happening in between is just part of the drama!

The hidden rulers of the world chess board will never reveal themselves but I believe they plan on finishing pre-determined prophecies they created. The book of revelations wasn't written by just anyone ya know!

A nuclear war will never happen EVER!
But some dirty bombs just might go off or a few nukes!
But never an all out war, those behind everything and in control of what really goes on would never allow it to happen!



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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A final thought! I am an 54 yr old American born and raised from the blue ridge mountains. I have a good knowledge of hard survival. I have been living with 8 young russians for the past several years. These russians are all under 25 years old. The normal average young russian with the equivalent of a US high school diploma knows more than most college educated Americans. For example, ask any russian who Salvador Dali is or to describe the history of the cathars and they will give you a long correct answer. Ask them any question on history, philosophy, dates etc. and they are always correct. Their schools are tough strict and severe. They are survivalists in every sense. They can build a kiln, fish smoker and perserve food of all types. They know all types of strange herbal remedies. They can rebuild any machine or car. They cant just shoot a gun they can build one. They are mathimatically mind. I have been shocked over these past years and I dread America ever going to war with these people. In my opinion there is no way we would win.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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America is at war with Russia right now.

It's a Cold War and the battlefield is the Middle East.

This is why I say you can talk to Iran until your blue in the face, as long as they are backed by Russia and to a lesser extent China, they will not budge.

This is why I say it doesn't make sense to leave Iraq at this point.

I didn't agree with going into Iraq. I thought we should have went into Afghanistan and boxed Saddam in. Saddam was there as a buffer against Iran. Shia in Iran and Sunni in Iraq. Once Saddam was taken out, Iran could become stronger.

Now that we are in Iraq, we need to stay there because Russia is backing Iran.

If we leave Iraq, you will have an Iraq-Iran powerhouse in the Middle East backed by Russia.

I also think terrorist attacks on soft targets in the U.S.A. will go up once we leave Iraq because they know we can't redeploy to the region as fast while shopping malls and movie theaters are being blown up.

The terrorist will try to take down America for Russia and the Russians will back them as they go after Israel.

The Bible actually talks about a Russian-Arab alliance that will eventually attack Israel.

You can see it shaping up in front of our eyes.

Once we leave Iraq, you will see a radical powerhouse take hold in the Middle East.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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I don't think we would win, if our troops act like they are over in Iraq..



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Arc Angel
 


You do know the Great Depression ended 2 years before we entered WW2 right?

China can unload their cheap, slave labor produced goods all over the planet. The moment they decide to cash in the gigantic amount of U.S. T-Bills they have, our economy would not only crumble, but it would make the previous Depression look like a slow business day.

China could obliterate the U.S. economy within a month, the only thing stopping them is destroying your best (notice I didn't say only) isn't a good business practice.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Arc Angel
 


my concern with this idea, is that you speak of a conventional war. Lets assume Russia got this "crazy ivan" idea. They would not go into this alone, they would already know the outcome of that.So who would they ally themselves with?? China seems the most logical, (they seem to me at least to be moving in that direction on there own now). Now the next part, for them to win or to even put up a good fight, They would have to attack on multiple levels. That is terror, maybe hack into something defense grid, or worse, or cause a blackout. Next is financial, lets say a tactical nuc attack on wall st!? how bad would that hurt us!!! Another thing is I fear is covert attacks here on nuclear power plant or holding 1 hostage till we negotiate a better deal, even if the move is to give them time. Another concern of mine, like off the coast of scarolina or goergia there's a atomic bomb, if I'm a terrorist, thats a target. In South Carolina is one of the largest fault lines for earthquakes on the east seaboard, so lets say I smuggle a nuc into charleston harbor and set it off. Now what if that sets off this fault line?? You said how Russia couldnt fight a 2 front war? What about us, with a major catasrophe like that and a war. Or say the go after the San Andreas faultline, same scenerio, float a nuc into San Fran bay. O r go after New Orleans !! blow up a couple of levys..WHEN I THINK OF HOW VENERABLE WE ARE, I FALL TO MY KNEES AND PRAY FOR GOD TO CONTINUE TO BLESS AMERICA, ELSE ?????



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by Arc Angel
 


Man, you are funny. Do you think the Russians are a bunch of uneducated peasants, as they were under Staline? They have an intelligence network far more sophisticated than you think, and they'd probably anticipate 50% of American moves. More, they have already started waging war against the US, by buying every single US treasure bond they can have, because of the average Joe who buys house, SUV, health care and college for his kids on CREDIT. So tazke responsiblity and stop waving your flag. Quit reading Tom Clancy too, he is as outdated as the Russian Navy



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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I guess nuclear war still scares people who grew up with it.Grew up the air raid drills hiding under your desk in school.Economies rise and fall but Russia the great bear will always be there.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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We won't have world wars anymore. I'm pretty confident in that statement because if we do then nations would have to resort to nuclear winter, and as we all know NO ONE IN THIS CIVILIZED WORLD WOULD USE NUKES. NOT EVEN BUSH OR THE CIA.

[edit on 6/18/2008 by die_another_day]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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hes right usa cant be defeated militarily for a long time,even the chinese are decades behind the yanks,yes they are making progress,but so is the u.s, and they're already ahead in this race.
the us would also be able to count on the rest of the "anglo-sphere" in any confrontation with the russians.the russians are more afraid of the chinese o be honest, massive chinese immigration to the siberian region is aking them nervous about their own demographics,they have a declining population lots of space and lots of resources,the chinese are massively overpopulated hungry for resources,with a growing military, and they're on the border.anyone remember the nazi and ussr alliance? and hitlers idea of "living space"? this looks like history repeating itself.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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There is always going to a contender that wants to prove your worth.Now you got both China and Russia who want to amp their military up.I still say ever if there is a nuclear war its going to be with old Russia.The Chinese are actually pleasant people.I don;t just see war in this within this modern era.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by Arc Angel
 


well my verdict is this.....if usa and russia went to war about 50 odd years ago,russia would blow usa apart



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