U.S.A Versus Russia in an all out War?

Originally posted by PokeyJoe
See the thing is, the F-22 is a STEALTH FIGHTER! How are you going to shoot something down when you don’t know its there?

If you don’t think that the US has very advanced counter-measures against SAM's, then you really have your head in the sand. What the public knows is about 2% of what we really have available. I think some of you don’t realize how deep it actually goes.

If we unloaded the full arsenal, there is no way anyone on the planet could even touch us. I’m not trying to come here and puff up my chest and be super patriotic, im just saying the truth.

See the thing is, 3rd world country took down your stealth with Old Russian tech, nothing is stealth... Russia is more then capable of tracking and engaging all targets be that stealth or what ever...
You unload whole arsenal... funny how you say it... do you think Russia won’t unload its own full arsenal...
In full out war you wont have advantages like satellites or air superiority... as I said... war with Russia is nothing like war with Vietnam or Iraq...


[edit on 21-6-2008 by (^_^)]

reply to post by Tomis_Nexis


I don't care about hockey... I just posted to your post which was off topic in the first place... at least try to stay with the topic... btw don't feel bad about us not mentioning anything about Canada... Russia will use Canada to invade US main land after beating them in Europe... 1/2 Canada is French so I am sure they will surrender before anyone fires a shoot (joke) coughcough good thing my gf can't see this.. She is Québecer...

reply to post by (^_^)


The thing about that is, after the Soviet Union fell, Russia's military fell apart and all their R&D, technology and the like went to pot. America never stopped, and was probably ahead in the first place. Russia fell behind 10 years or so, and its pretty damn hard to place catch up, when you were already behind in the beginning.

Only foolish people who doubt their own courage publicly pray for war. The avaricious publicly proclaim the need for war to protect that which is not ours, for us. World Leaders hire speechwriters to create sentences in which they can still utter the words "honor" and "duty" without blushing. We are a common people and we share the same needs. There can be plenty for all if we work together, this world that was created for all of us, man and animal alike, They too have needs, but no voice. Missiles cannot stop radiation, you cannot fire a nuclear weapon anywhere without radiation coming back making you, your loved ones, all creatures great and small suffer its consequences. We live in a closed finite enviroment, there is no safe dump, for anything. If we don't learn to live together than we shall all die together. When we have eaten all there is to eat, then we all die of starvation. When the last oxygen has been sucked out of the air, we all asphyxiate together. When the last of the energy is gone, we will all be cold together, in the dark. Our only hope and our greatest need is world peace and equality. People deserve respect for their choices the same as we demand respect for our own. We, none of us, can afford a fire we can't put out. Peace be with us all.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by debris765nju]

I really dont understand something when I read such topics. USA vs Russia, USA vs China. There is this fear that maybe one day USA might not be able to "defeat" hands down those enemies.

What is with this fear, I assume it comes from Americans. They are so afraid that if they lose their nr. 1 spot in world military and power they will be invaded?

Why are you talking about war? It is not neccesary and it wont happen unless you want it to happen.

Why can't USA accept that one day they might be nr. 2 and that's the end of it, you don't need to fight or think "OMG Russia/China will invade us because now we are nr. 2".

Your current mentality points to only one thing, war is a normal thing to happen if USA "might" lose its nr. 1 spot. That is bad for all of us.

The problem is, USA (Or atleast the Fed Gov of USA) are a separate entity unto their own. They no longer repesent the 4th branch of government and have effectively dismantled this branch (the people). What the people are beginning to realize is that this entity cloaks a system that is built upon enslavement to ensure sufficiency and growth of this system.

USA has made people so dependant on a life to achieve that they strive to achieve this life up to their death, never actually stopping to live. The fall of the USA, may not be from Russia, but may be from a glitch in human nature. The desire for peace, knowledge and divinity. People are so capable of intimacy with every aspect of their life, they die for the border that birthed them. If everyone set out on the path to truth, ultimately leading to that causal-plainesque encounter with the almighty, they would realize that Russia is a trivial threat to USA.

Mock my words, the real threat lays in the now dormant mind of the once thoughtful, the dissentful, patriotic citizen of the United States.

Its simple...the Illumiati will be playing both sides. They will orchestrate another 911, to crash the dollar and turn out economy upside down in less than one hour. We won't have the capacity to take on both China and Russia.....long story short. You will see them forming south of Mexico..and running north through mexico to the southwest US. then another front will be found in the Balkans and in the mideast over Iran.





reply to post by Arc Angel




[edit on 22-6-2008 by tgambill]

reply to post by Arc Angel


This posting (short story) sounds like the rambling of a 16 year old kid who watches to much discovery channel, and I think we are quite possibly now dumber for having had to read it.

I believe that the next conflict of mankind can be overted by the everyday citizen. If every man questioned the leadership of his country, no man would mobilize against his fellow human, leaving the governments to fight themselves. And Putin knows judo. Infact Putin looks like he could floor any politician and sometimes its like he's just waiting for a reason to rip off his shirt and wrastle the guy across the round table from him onto the floor.


Mind you if this is the way world leaders always settled their disputes, there would be a lot less bodies to scrape off the conflict streets.

From:

I love this country, I love its people, but the government and the elite created around it, I really despise.
I also don't care too much for misinformed people, everybody in this forum
are full of misconception and show a remarkable ignorance of American history and the present political/economical situation.
Fact: If we are so dependent of the dollar, why the dollar is being grossly devaluated, the main culprit of the American collapse are their own government and the people whom work with it.
It is obvious by now, that the main culprits for the destruction of the planet are the petroleum multinationals, but 37% of the investors of this tragic business are common American citizens who are very happy to rake profits without realizing the damage done.
We don't need a nuclear war to destroy America, we just need a complete corrupt corrupt government, a 537 trillion dollars of American total international debt(we owe China alone $75 trillions and we are already bankrupt, in desperation the American government set aside all the rules of National security and they are selling to foreign powers all the greatest industrial institutions.(Banks, Chrysler Corp, Phelps Dodge,-Tata motors of India is the bigger automaker of the world-Starlite of India is the biggest producer of copper[they just bought Phelps Dodge for $2.6 billions with government approval] and the so "powerful economical machine" is today
3rd in the world in monetary terms-Europe is 2nd- and No 1 is a very little known conglomerate of Asia identified as SWF(Sovereign Wealth Fund) that recently stole Japan from the G8 to become a member of the SWF which has
trillions of dollars at its disposal, and the pressure is telling over the bankrupt
Banks of Europe, the corrupt and destructive and bankrupt Federal Central banks.
Every country in the world is getting rid of American dollars, and the yuan and the yens are stronger than ever, every American economical advisor except the vultures of Wall Street will tell you to put your money in foreign investments, but why!, if the richest men in the world are doing it for the last 20 years , while the American suckers are losing their shirts investing in the American Stock Exchange that is and always was manipulated by the super rich.
Russian does not need to go to a nuclear war, the fallout in America is coming from within, besides nuclear warfare is obsolete, both powers have weapons a lot more destructive now, read about HAARP in Google, read about Scalar Weapons, read about Bacteriological warfare, that is not too good for humans but is very good for cockroaches.
The American collapse will coincide with the attack to Iran, and Iran is a member of the SWF, and so is Russia, and so is AUSTRALIA !!, one of our former allies.
The SWF power is today formed by 16 wealthy nations which got tire of the arrogance and stupidity of European and American Banks and economical
communities and mainly its unbelievable rapacity,(Read in Google about the latest on the Leo Wanta affair),America was responsible for the bankruptcy of the Bank of London.
Most of the rich countries of the world were literally rob of trillions of dollars,
by our "Christian" Governments. (Read in Google: "The latest on the Leo Wanta affair), and so were the American people.
I was born in a foreign country, and I learn to love America and the Americans, but I have learned to seek the truth about everything that happens around me, and I have learned about the real History of the American people and its government.-These are completely different Histories, after all America was created with 13 CORPORATIONS, not with 13
geographical States as the Schools teaches, and we are program to believe
all the lies that the corporate dictators want us to believe.
The good thing about all this is that the American-European globalism is now in shambles, and the balance of power is shifting toward the Asian Communities,maybe they'll do a better job.

You are exactly on track. Most Americans, born here have no idea of the truth as they believe the main stream media.....and the government. Its ironic that Immgrant Americans that come here and see the truth are our strongest allies against most Americans that have no clue what is going on...........


reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Just like those who lived in Iraq.Through Sadam was a hero even though he killed many people for self pleasure with no motive.The people of Iraq,those who aren't intelligent and are afraid of change,know nothing but the lovable dictator who showed both sides.I can see why with media and what the government wants to tell us,how outsiders can see the bigger picture.

The bigger picture was to set up a basis for WWIII with Iran......like FDR set up Japan for WWII with Nazi Germany......Hitler was set up by Wall Street [Prescott Bush, Henry Ford, IBM, DuPont.....etc...] same folks that funded Lenin and Bolsheviks.........


reply to post by alienstar

Snooooore....

Cmon ppl. How many times do we have to beat this dead horse? All out war means nuclear war. Then we all lose. Allowing Russian troops on US soil and allowing US troops onto Russian soil to keep it from going nuclear and the US wins. Go to a library or something. The only time the Russians had a chance was in the mid 70s to early 80s. They couldve taken us up to the Rocky mountains.

A US/Russian alliance is far more likely than an all out war. I personally see a Chinese land grab attempt into Russian territory as a far more likely scenario in which case the Chinese would be able to hold gained ground for a couple of years before being wiped out....

reply to post by Arc Angel


1.5 Billion? Thats just the know reserve under the Bakken field.

The number is actually much much higher. Some thought of over 200 billion barrels. Now thats a gusher.

I am highly invested in oil companies that already have a foothold up here.... Lots of small guys, but damn have they made me some money this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd say you are partially right. However you have to think about communications, efficiency and vulnerability.

Look at the Katrina fiasco. That's the level of organization our country operates at.
911: A few commercial jets made the entire defense infrastructure redundant in less than an hour! Those Jets were going what 500 Mph or so? Te newest Russian multi warhead ICBMS operate at speeds we haven't figured out how to harness in a controlled manner. There will be none of the new breed shot down. You can bet the Russian black projects are more than interesting too.

If you think that a satellite can't be taken down easily think again. There's a few ways that don't involve launching a solitary thing. The systems that control guidance & targeting are well beyond vital. Without them no planes, missiles or interceptors will make it out of state let alone out of the atmosphere or penetrate Russian borders. If you think the lone pot head from the UK got far into the military infrastructure imagine what 5,000 Chinese hackers with a gun pointed at their family's heads would do. I bring China in because a war with Russia would be a war with China as well. If it was Russia attacking us then China would come to our aid. Russia has a VERY intelligent information warfare division too. It would be back to boots and bulllets and so the ground forces would have one hell of a trek in front of them while being pounded by the hordes of legacy systems the Russians kept intact. Our brain depends on the satellites. And God help us, the logistics planners can't even find New Orleans or IOWA state yet!

Efficiency is another problem. There would be so much paperwork just to load one troop carrier that the rather one sided war would be over long before the first tire turns.

All of this would be true in the opposite situation, reversing party roles.

And for the conspiracy nut in all of us. Ever think forces might be ordered to stand down so the grand sabotage could happen? I wonder if there's any dual citizens in the ranks...

NO ONE would win, all would lose and the rest of the world would be irreversibly emboldened to do as they please. It will then be them to guarantee BOTH countries no longer even have a match to start a fire.

Mutually assured destruction no matter what and God only knows who would allow that to happen and why.

Scary times and a nice debate indeed. Your patriotism is hopeful for sure and I like to see that but in no way should you dismiss the other side as incapable or more confused than us. We are in a pickle with natural acts of nature, defense lapses on 911 that show just how horrible the defense money has been spent from independence to the day of 911. Unless there was a COMPLETE overhaul of all equipment and people there's no chance we'd survive an attack even by Mexicans crossing the boarder with snub nose .38s and ricin paper airplanes!

Here's hoping we have something 'new' that would be rolled out in such a major event.
God bless the USA!

Another reason why the US could not successfully invade Russia is its technology. Its because of its reliance on technology, that could prove to be its downfall on any invasion.

The Russians are not stupid. They know that a lot of the US's war machine is heavily reliant on satellites and especially the GPS system.

How much hardware could the US use if there were not satellites or GPS?

Without them, i would reckon that would pretty well screw up most things.

All out war would involve nukes so this whole thread is moot.

As children, there are those the contemplate Superman versus Batman or my dads tougher then your dad.

Some of those children grown into adults, who take liberty with the freedom of their countrymen and those of another and wage war.

Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.

Peace


[edit on 5-7-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by 2nd2no1ratbags


Yep, this thread struck me as ' could Batman beat Spiderman?' when I first read it, and the end piece 'anyone who disagrees is wrong' clinched that perception.