U.S.A Versus Russia in an all out War?

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posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:14 AM
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Someone posted this not so long ago...so I'd figure I'd revive this dead topic because I never got the chance to put my 2 cents in. Here's were I stand:

"USA would win hands down. It wouldn't even be a war, more like a slaughter. "But how can you say that? Russia is surely equal to us in every aspect!" Really? It just so happens I have evidence to support my claim. You people have no idea how powerful the USA really is.

1.) The United States Economy surpasses Russian Economy by more than 10 fold in terms of GDP. Not only is our economy so much stronger then Russia's, but we are also the world's leading producer of oil. (Look it up, it's true. US is more idependent then you think.) Sucks Russia rely's on US money, just as the rest of the world does. (China)

2.) 3.7% of our GDP goes to our defense budget, yet our defense budget is SO HUGE if you put all of the world's military budgets together you'd only match it. And that's only using 3.7% of our Economy, during WW2 we were using 30% of our GDP to fund the war effort.

3.) Even with such a small percentage of our Economy going towards military funding we are able to maintain the 2nd largest military and most well equiped military in the world. (So, not only do we outnumber them, but our equipment is FAR superior to there's)

4.) The US Power Projection Cababilities are unmatched. 11 Carrier battlegroups (Russia, by the way, only has 1 Aircraft carrier which is old. We have 22 Aircraft carriers, 11 of them nucleared powered and containing the most sophysicated weapon systems known to man). Each of those groups has enough firepower to start and end a war. It's one thing to declare a war, but in 24 hours expect US battlegroups to converge on Russia, each carrying a Marine Expeditionary Force. Russia can't fight a 2 front war! The damn country is so big, we'd use it's size against it. So you got 250,000 Marines pushing West; 250,000 pushing East; Stealth Bombers coming in from Alaska as well as the Artic and a letter saying US is pulling out its funding to the Russian Economy. All of this happens in just a couple of days. You can't manuever your people fast enough to defend against that.

5.) "What about if they nuke us?" We shot down, with a single destroyer, a sattelite from outer #ing space! Trust me, no missiles are getting through our defense systems. We have missiles designed to go after other missiles and blow them up, and all the laser weaponary we secretly have too. They'd basically ask for a death wish because we'd shoot down their missiles and then we'd just blow the # out of them.

6.) "What if they built up their #'s then declared war?" Well, we have Apaches that can single handedly take out an entire tank column. We can fire tomahawk missiles from hundreds of miles away and blow up planes, tanks, rockets, people, before they even see us. Russia wouldn't even be able to attack America, THEY HAVE NO NAVY! What are they going to do, swim?

So as I said, it wouldn't even be a war. Given Russia's size...if we went all out...I'd give it 3 weeks before we'd have complete control. Minimal casualties. F-22 would also rock the # out of that new fighter that Russia is trying to build. We'd blow those son's of bitches out of the air before they'd even see us. I don't know what the fighter is called, but I can almost gaurantee that they're using US Generation 1 stealth technology that we sold to them. Too bad that's already obsolete by our standards. God bless America."

Anyone who disagrees is wrong.




posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:21 AM
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Wars have changed, I don't think we will ever see all out conventional war again and certainly not against the Russians. Low intensity coflict is the way wars wil be fought and we should've planned even earlier on that years ago. As a matter of fact, I am still trying to figure out why we fielded the F22.
Vance



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:23 AM
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Your #1 fact is wrong. The USA is not the number 1 oil producer in the world. Saudi Arabia is, number 2 is Russia. Maybe you should check facts before posting. Might give you more credibility.

Numbers of oil for production, export, consumption and importers
More recent numbers, same results

And don't count on the the part of the world that depends on the USD to keep keep doing so. More and more countries are moving to the Euro. But again, I think you care less about facts and more about chest thumping flag waving.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Rook1545]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:23 AM
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You have made your own bed now sleep in it.People are going to either love this thread or hate it.Of course since u said all out war which would include the nuclear triad of ballistic missiles,sub launched,and long range bombers.There would be no need for any winners since we both are blown off the whole map.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by Arc Angel
 


"Trust me, no missiles are getting through our defense systems. We have missiles designed to go after other missiles and blow them up, and all the laser weaponary we secretly have too"

And your so called missile shield,they dont even know if that thing works.You can stop 500 incoming icbm's that might be either single warhead,mirv,or drones with the mirv.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by Rook1545
Your #1 fact is wrong. The USA is not the number 1 oil producer in the world. Saudi Arabia is, number 2 is Russia. Maybe you should check facts before posting. Might give you more credibility.

Numbers of oil for production, export, consumption and importers
More recent numbers, same results

And don't count on the the part of the world that depends on the USD to keep keep doing so. More and more countries are moving to the Euro. But again, I think you care less about facts and more about chest thumping flag waving.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Rook1545]


Did you factor in the 1.5 billion barrels of oil in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming? Think we can't access them yet? Maybe next time you should actually do some research instead of googling a topic.

www.ncpa.org...


[edit on 18-6-2008 by Arc Angel]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by alienstar
reply to post by Arc Angel
 


"Trust me, no missiles are getting through our defense systems. We have missiles designed to go after other missiles and blow them up, and all the laser weaponary we secretly have too"

And your so called missile shield,they dont even know if that thing works.You can stop 500 incoming icbm's that might be either single warhead,mirv,or drones with the mirv.


This I'm not so sure about, however from my knowledge a MIRV missile passes into space, bursts, and then the individual 'packages' follow the set coordinates to their targets in re-entry. To destroy a MIRV you'd need to blow the damn thing up before it split apart, when it's in space. I said 1 destroyer shot down a sattelite. We have 11 battlegroups alone, along with jamming devices and laser weaponry. Not to mention the stuff we have on land.

1.) Were are you going to get the launchers and be able to conceal them to launch 500 ICBMs at the same time?

2.) Already we are testing laser weaponry on airplanes shooting down missiles.

3.) The Lockheed and Martin center up by me constantly does tests with lasers and such. (No, not the big destructive red ones. But I know a couple of people who work in there and they test out lasers and see the effects on helicopters and such)



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by Arc Angel

Originally posted by Rook1545
Your #1 fact is wrong. The USA is not the number 1 oil producer in the world. Saudi Arabia is, number 2 is Russia. Maybe you should check facts before posting. Might give you more credibility.

Numbers of oil for production, export, consumption and importers
More recent numbers, same results

And don't count on the the part of the world that depends on the USD to keep keep doing so. More and more countries are moving to the Euro. But again, I think you care less about facts and more about chest thumping flag waving.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Rook1545]


Did you factor in the 1.5 billion barrels of oil in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming? Think we can't access them yet?

www.ncpa.org...


If they are not in production then you can't count them...if you want to talk about reserves then it is still Saudi Arabia #1 and Canada #2. You have compare apples to apples, not apples to geese.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:51 AM
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Sorry bud we dont have any weapons in space...and what goes up must come down.You cant stop that many missiles and when i say 500?Thats not including sub launched and bomber.Now are are talking in the 1000s.Sorry you cant win a nuclear war.Now if you want to talk conventional war,thats different.But nuclear war never has a winner.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by alienstar
Sorry bud we dont have any weapons in space...and what goes up must come down.You cant stop that many missiles and when i say 500?Thats not including sub launched and bomber.Now are are talking in the 1000s.Sorry you cant win a nuclear war.Now if you want to talk conventional war,thats different.But nuclear war never has a winner.


I am not sure about that. I think I read somewhere that cockroaches could survive a nuclear war. So I guess they would probably cheer pretty loudly. The sucky part is that no human would ever hear it.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by Rook1545

Originally posted by Arc Angel

Originally posted by Rook1545
Your #1 fact is wrong. The USA is not the number 1 oil producer in the world. Saudi Arabia is, number 2 is Russia. Maybe you should check facts before posting. Might give you more credibility.

Numbers of oil for production, export, consumption and importers
More recent numbers, same results

And don't count on the the part of the world that depends on the USD to keep keep doing so. More and more countries are moving to the Euro. But again, I think you care less about facts and more about chest thumping flag waving.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Rook1545]


Did you factor in the 1.5 billion barrels of oil in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming? Think we can't access them yet?

www.ncpa.org...


If they are not in production then you can't count them...if you want to talk about reserves then it is still Saudi Arabia #1 and Canada #2. You have compare apples to apples, not apples to geese.


How can I not count them? That's like saying, "You can't count that food over there, you're not eating it yet."



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:55 AM
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Oh yeah thanks for reminding me about the fall out as well.Yeah nuclear winters are fun.Can u imagine how much livestock and crops would be gone?



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by Arc Angel
 


Simple, if they are not producing, you don't count them. It is more like saying you can't count the food over there because it isn't made yet. You brought up oil production, the link you gave says that is oil that COULD be produced, so it is not in production, there fore CANNOT be counted.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by alienstar
Oh yeah thanks for reminding me about the fall out as well.Yeah nuclear winters are fun.Can u imagine how much livestock and crops would be gone?


Dude I am in Canada, I am not sure nuclear winter can be any colder than it is here already.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by alienstar
Sorry bud we dont have any weapons in space...and what goes up must come down.You cant stop that many missiles and when i say 500?Thats not including sub launched and bomber.Now are are talking in the 1000s.Sorry you cant win a nuclear war.Now if you want to talk conventional war,thats different.But nuclear war never has a winner.


Never said we had weapons in space (Although we probably do) I said we can fire missiles up into space and shoot things down. Now, you said Sub lauched and bomber. I mentioned before Russia has hardly any Navy. (1 Semi working Aircraft carrier, and a bunch of submarines) So Russia's bombers would have to fly across the Arctic before they'd be able to drop their payloads...on what? Alaska? Our interceptors would shoot them down either in Alaska or in Canada.

As for the sub launched we really can't stop you there. We have a large Navy and would probably be able to pin-point where those missiles are coming from and blow those subs up. But I don't think Russia's sub fleet is cabable of launching 500 missiles.

And forget so soon our Boomer submarine? Each one contains more firepower than all the bombs dropped during WW2 (Yes, including Atomic) combined.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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Every major city with a big population,all military bases,nuclear power plants,major text and industry sites gone.GONE GONE GONE GONE.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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I guess the biggest question is... why? America invaded Iraq, gained control over it... uh, right?

There's no need to even contemplate a conflict between the US and Russia. Russia is still rebuilding itself from Yeltsin's 'shock therapy' used to bring it out of communism. The economy is rapidly growing in recent times, however.



Going by that and other figures, you could say Russia has a larger nuclear stockpile than the US. Do you really think a conflict, ignoring how infinitely small the chances are now, would necessarily only be fought conventionally? Maybe if you wanted to preserve infrastructure, in which case you would want to be gaining control of the country - but why would either side want to do that, now?

Just to reiterate, the US has already WON the Cold War. Western liberal democracy and capitalism delivered a crushing, knock-out blow to communism once and for all.

Sure, China might have 521 million people fit for military service, but who cares about them, right...

[edit on 18-6-2008 by mattguy404]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Rook1545
reply to post by Arc Angel
 


Simple, if they are not producing, you don't count them. It is more like saying you can't count the food over there because it isn't made yet. You brought up oil production, the link you gave says that is oil that COULD be produced, so it is not in production, there fore CANNOT be counted.


But you just said go on reserves. That can be counted as reserves, and unconvential production. (Like the article said).

Only reason we haven't truly tapped them yet is because the US is smart and likes to waste other country's resources before we waste ours.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by Rook1545
 


Its not just how cold it could get but you wouldnt have a ozone,no sunlight,and along with high amount of radiation in the air and soil,your dead still.Oh yeah Canada dude im sure since you guys hold the radar installions up there im sure russia has canadian cities on the list as well.


[edit on 18-6-2008 by alienstar]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by alienstar
reply to post by Rook1545
 


Its not just how cold it could get but you wouldnt have a ozone,no sunlight,and along with high amount of radiation in the air and soil,your dead still.Oh yeah Canada dude im sure since you guys hold the radar installions up there im sure russia has canadian cities on the list as well.


[edit on 18-6-2008 by alienstar]


I'm pretty sure the war wouldn't start off with nuclear weapons.



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