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Illegitimate Federal Government and the Rule of Martial Law in the United States

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posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



You tell all the people that have and are shedding blood for the constitution that they are doing it for no reason. Since the constitution is no longer legitimate.


I have. Including my own brother who is in Iraq at this very moment. Not to mention the fact that I have a long family history of military service to this nation, including it's founding. My family shed blood against the British on the very ground that I live and work today.



That means no matter what the president declared (martial Law) it still doesnt suspend the supreme court.


I suggest that you aquire a greater understanding of martial law.




posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by tide88
 



You tell all the people that have and are shedding blood for the constitution that they are doing it for no reason. Since the constitution is no longer legitimate.


I have. Including my own brother who is in Iraq at this very moment. Not to mention the fact that I have a long family history of military service to this nation, including it's founding. My family shed blood against the British on the very ground that I live and work today.



That means no matter what the president declared (martial Law) it still doesnt suspend the supreme court.


I suggest that you aquire a greater understanding of martial law.



You have failed to show me that Martial Law suspends the Supreme Courts Power. It suspends civil and criminal courts. Not the Supreme Court. Wow and you are not emotionally attached to your own theory. You treat is as if it is your baby. And my father was a vietnam vet and grandfather a fighter pilot and POW in WWII. You family had a lot to do with the founding of this nation. Well my family came over on the mayflower. My grandmothers maiden name is TODD. Does this have any meaning to you. My mothers side of the family tree reaches to the Adams family. So if you want to have a pissing contest about whos family was more important to the develpment of this country, then you my friend will be on the losing end. I am done with this argument, it has become to personal at this point. If you hate the way the USA is, leave. I hear canada is real nice this time of year. Keep spreading your propaganda about the illigitamate USA. I suprised your brother doesn't break you in half. I know my father, or any marine would if he read what disinfo you are spreading and he was able to get his hands on you. Of course most people are not going to believe the rubbish you are trying to spread.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by tide88]

[edit on 20-7-2008 by tide88]

[edit on 20-7-2008 by tide88]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



BTW the south attacked first.


Attacked a hostile force operating in sovereign teritorry. Do you not think that the US Army would not attack if we told foreign troops to get off our bases?



Maybe you wish there was still slavery today.


This has nothing to do with slavery. But since you brought it up, I dare say that slavery would have been abolished in the South within a few years. It was already illegal to engage in slave trade in the South. And if the Southern states had been able to properly assimilate the black work force into the economy, it never would have taken another century for their civil rights to be recognized. Furthermore, you wouldn't see most of the problems that still face the black community today.



Or that the USA was split in two.


Today, split into fifty. Fifty sovereign states acting in concert as one, with the Federal government restricted to the powers specifically outline in the Constitution.



The only thing I dont understand is that if you actually believe that why not move to another country.


Why should I move? In case you missed it, this is my country. My family has lived in the same county since the 1600's.



If you really believe all that you claim to be true, why on earth would you stay here.


So you, the apologist for the usurpers, is telling me to get out of my own country? You better get your own army pal.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



It suspends civil and criminal courts. Not the Supreme Court.


The Supreme Court is a civil court, as opposed to a military court. Well, originally anyway.



So if you want to have a pissing contest about whos family was more important to the develpment of this country, then you my friend will be on the losing end.


I doubt it. I suggest you do some research on the history of the Hudson Valley to start with.



If you hate the way the USA is, leave.


Maybe the Jews should have left when the Nazis took over then too, huh?



I suprised your brother doesn't break you in half. I know my father, or any marine would if he read what disinfo you are spreading and he was able to get his hands on you.


And what makes you think that I myself haven't served? By the way, a good number of current and former military personnel have contacted me directly regarding this thread. They have legitimate questions, and even sorrowful praise of my work.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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And what makes you think that I myself haven't served? By the way, a good number of current and former military personnel have contacted me directly regarding this thread. They have legitimate questions, and even sorrowful praise of my work. So you, the apologist for the usurpers, is telling me to get out of my own country? You better get your own army pal.



For one you had to mention your whole family history and those who in your family that have served. I highly doubt you would leave out the fact that you served. I do have an army. It is called the US Army. Good Luck fighting them. BTW you work and theories are wrong and I highly doubt you are really getting that big of a response. Look at this thread. There was a bigger response to dragon flies are electronic spying devises.
Go post your theories on some other board besides a conspiracy board. Maybe a political board or somewhere where people actually know about the constitution, the federal government and the rule of martial law. If you have such a profound theory why dont you post it where it can be dissected by experts in those fields. And if you are going to say you have then I want links to these boards. Why dont you go to one of these boards and pose it as a question and see if they can refute it. Hell I think I did a pretty damn good job and I dont even have a degree or know much about the subject. I cant imagine what how bad an expert would pick you apart. I would love to see it. If you decide to grow a pair and actually do this please send me a link. I will watch as a silent observer and if they cant prove you wrong I will come on this thread and my other and state I was wrong the whole time and you were right. Consider this a challenge by me. Go pick a few no conspiracy boards and post your theory on there. Then we can see if those people can argue your point.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by tide88]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



For one you had to mention your whole family history and those who in your family that have served. I highly doubt you would leave out the fact that you served.


I am not at liberty to discuss the details of any such service, if in fact any such service occurred.



I do have an army. It is called the US Army. Good Luck fighting them.


We shall see. Who is loyal to the Federal government, and who is loyal to the Constitution.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 




you actually believe there is going to be an uprising?



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



Go post your theories on some other board besides a conspiracy board. Maybe a political board or somewhere where people actually know about the constitution, the federal government and the rule of martial law.


You know, you're just getting very childish now. First you tell me to get out of the country. Now you're telling me to leave ATS. What's the matter? Run out of anything valid to say? Don't like it, get off the thread. You're just stinking it up with idiocy at this point anyway.



Hell I think I did a pretty damn good job and I dont even have a degree or know much about the subject. I cant imagine what how bad an expert would pick you apart. I would love to see it.


So would I. So pat yourself on the back some more, and tell them to come on over.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 05:53 PM
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There will be no more discussion of anything but the topic, which is "Illegitimate Federal Government and the Rule of Martial Law in the United States".

Consider this a last warning. Anything further is actionable.

Please stay on topic.

Thank you.

P.S. tide88..you would be surprised at the amount of 'experts' we have roaming these boards.


[edit on 20-7-2008 by MemoryShock]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 

Sorry I tend to get frustrated. I am going to post your whole theory on a few boards. I will send you the link u2u and you can also monitor. I am can do no more then I have done in trying to prove my point and it doesnt look as though anyone besides u and me are in this discussion. So I am going to try to get some others point of view. How does that sound?



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 

I posted it on this board here mb.sparknotes.com...
I will find some more boards tomorrow. I am worn out today. My only concern is that people will not respond because of how long it is. Anyway. Although I believe I am right I cannot tech. shoot down your theory. Does that make it right. I do not think so, but that is only my opinion. Anyway I hope you dont mind that I am posting it on other boards, I will keep you posted on any boards I posted it on. I would give you credit for it but I am reluctant to do that without your premission. However if you like I will be more than happy to attach your name to it.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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Please do credit jackinthebox. It is only polite and as it is our policy to credit every outside source we post, we hope that others would do the same...



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



I would give you credit for it but I am reluctant to do that without your premission.

Then you should have asked my permission. Now you have posted copywritten material without permission. Unless of course you were given permission by ATS, who are co-owners of this material in accordance with the T&C.






[edit on 7/20/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:36 PM
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This is off topic gentlemen and I would have hoped that this could have been done through u2u.

Is there an amenable way to solve this current situation?

I am of course, of service...



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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Mod Edit: Read the post above you.

It clearly stated this discussion was Off-Topic and for you to take it to u2u.

Please do so...lest the Off-topic Warn Fairy flitter into your window and leave you a sparkly red Warn in your side-profile.


Cheers,
ALIEN


[edit on 20-7-2008 by alien]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 

Sorry he accused me of something publically I thought I should have the right to respond publically. I also do not see that his post was erased. Anyway back on topic. I already got my first response from someone who read you post. Here is what he said
FROM FATED 1: USCONSTITUTION.NET
"1. The Declaration of Independence is not the law of the US. It is mearly a declaration and has force whatsoever.

Nest the author of the poorly worded secessionist document says this

From the linked article wrote:This is evident in the Second Amendment and the Tenth Amendment of the Constitution, where measures to check the power of the federal government were adopted


The Bill of Rights enumerates some of the rights that all humans posses the author portrays this in a manner not consistent with the writing of the founding fathers, further the 2nd is about self defense and the individual firearms ownership. It is no more a special check of Federal power that the 1st.

What the author is doing is decontextulising these documents to prove his thesis. Look further

From the linked article wrote:It seems clear enough by the wording here that at the very least, it is the right, if not the duty of a free state, to secure their freedom as a state, with arms.


The Bill of Rights is about individual rights not State Powers, the Founding Fathers clearly used the word right for an individual and power for a State. So this whole argument is bases on a logical fallacy from the start. Look to the recent 2nd amendment ruling in Heller, there SCOTUS said exactly the Founding Father knew how to write and the difference between rights and powers."



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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First of all, without even reading the referenced thread, it is rather safe to say the United States is in no way operating under martial law, because of the simple fact that the Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C. § 1385), passed in 1878, prohibits the use of military forces for domestic law enforcement purposes. It should be noted that, in pursuance of the same, military forces are not being used for such purposes, so even if we were legally under martial law, it is not being exercised in any way, shape or form.

Secondly, martial law cannot suspend the operations of the federal courts, because neither Congress nor the President has the power to do so.
IAN USCONSTITUTION.NET


Martial Law does not exists where the Courts and Government can function and perform their tasks. Since SCOTUS is working there is no Martial Law. Look at what the courts have done to “enemy combatants”, the administration has lost every issue brought before them. This would not be possible if the Martial Law was in force. There would be no judicial review.

Fated_1

PS Midnight: nothing in this paper is even close to correct.


btw midnight is another poster that said it was an interesting read. hmmm. I have asked about congress not conveneing de jure. Will post more replies tomorrow.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


Ok so one of your main arguments you use is that congress needs a quorum to convene and there wasnt one. It is probably your most used arguments. Okay so what about this.


1. Only one-third of the states seceded. Thirty-three states had joined the Union before 1860, meaning there were 22 states remaining during the south's insurrection. Thirty-three states = 66 Senators. 34 Senators were sufficient to constitute a quorum. The non-seceding 22 states each sent 2 Senators for a maximum present of 44 Senators – ten more than required for a quorum. Therefore, attaining a majority in the Senate was not a problem.

2. Given the difference in populations between northern and southern states generally, the same is even more true of the House of Representatives.

Thus, even assuming the southern states could not secede – which I myself maintain, and which the Supreme Court ruled – a quorum was available in both houses of Congress. Do you have some evidence arguing to the contrary?
IAN USCONSTITUTION.NET



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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Why not debate this in an organized fashion, gentlemen?

The Debate Forum?



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock
Why not debate this in an organized fashion, gentlemen?

The Debate Forum?


One reason I would like to stick to this thread is because of all the stars and flags he has received. If he is indeed wrong I think everyone who visits this thread should know. BTW whats the debate forum?




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