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Reuters cameraman killed by Israeli tank (Graphic)

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posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Becker44
Bodrul, I just think it would be fair to hear the other side of this horrific accident. You don't go into a court of law, tell your side of the argument and then expect the judge to make a decision.

I'm just asking you to put aside your deep bias and hatred for Israel and see if there might be a little more to this report than the Rueter's hit piece.


Well this is my point. You almost never hear of this side of the 'accident'.

This 'accident' is not an uncommon thing, I don't understand how people can say that it is.

The deaths are, more often then not, mentioned in no other way than a number. We get to hear every horror story from one side, but not the other?

Where is this argument of, "we have to hear both sides", when the Isaeli people are being killed?

The actual history of situation is never discussed. It is dirty talk. We celebrate an act of which we have no knowledge of. If not by the fault of our own ignorance, then by the fault of the amazingly one-sided reporting we recieve.




posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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This is why you do not film down-range from a tank in an active gun zone. Especially at further ranges.

Worse has happened before, I am not really concerned with this, even if I am trained to work in the same field he was.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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wow, thats some serious posts to this situation, all negative.
well you know i agree its bad, and i agree war is hell.
but did anyone ever stop to think what might have been going through the mind of the vehicle commander, who ordered the gunner to fire?
i dont know how many times i read posts of people picking apart situations based on their preconcieved notions of what must have been going on and in turn attacking namless faceless individuals.

who here has military experience, Besides myself? im just curious.
has anyone ever been inside a tank, besides myself? once again im just asking.
i should make it known that as far as the media is concerned, pointing a shoulder mounted camera at a armored vehicle in a chaotic place is a big no no.. i mean really,... film at your own risk.
why? simple.... because in a war zone when somone has somthing on thier shoulder,, regardless of how they are dressed or how they are marked take on the appearance of a shoulder launchable weapon system.
ie, rocket launcher. i know there are some who would say,,,"yeah but they were in a tank a rocket launcher would not have done much or any damage." uhhmmm there are so many things wrong with a comment like that it boggles the mind and i dont have enough room to write in this post.
but lets put it like this, i dont know who died, i dont know what race, or culture or background they have.. and i dont care. its simple.. go to a warzone at your own risk. i dont know why everyone is over looking that obvious point. in war sometimes when things are chaotic you misinterpret
things you "think" you see and then suddenly it's too late to take it back.
happens all the time in Iraq. by the way yes there are people that will use children for cover to launch an attack on you as a soldier. Response....shoot through the children to maintain integrety of your force and security of your detail. shooting kids is a REAL BAD THING! but unfortunatly bad things happen in combat, thats why combat is a BAD THING.
somehow people have fallen prey to the media in regards to war being some kind of casualty free affair where if someone dies its a tragedy.
its been happening for thousands of years. im not saying i agree with it im just saying there may be more to it than what your being told or what you know for sure.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by snowen20
 


An insightful response, I thank you for your contribution. There are many variables and many of them unsavory. I have personally never seen military duty; I don't have enough faith in this countries policy to fight for them at this juncture, and yes, I do see it as them rather than us. I am not united with these states, I am simply a passive observer of the travesties we visit again and again upon our lesser (supposedly) brethren.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by ExquisitExamplE
 


then sir or mam, we are on the same page because I too am merely an observer now. Ill be moving to a 3rd world country to live out the rest of my life by the end of july if all goes as planned and i have found more peace and freedom there than i have ever had here.
it is important to me that people reading my post do not misunderstand my sentiments regarding battle, it's just having seen things first hand i can vehemintly say in war everything you understand as reality is vastly simplified or vastly complicated there is no happy grey area.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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Its pretty clear that the reporter saw and filmed things that the IAF did not want anyone to see so ooooops.

Lets face it they did not bat an eye when the murdered Rachel Corrie in 2003. But they used a bulldozer and not a MBT so I guess that was okay

[edit on 6/17/08 by FredT]



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by snowen20
 


this is beyond silly, its absolutely rediculous. did you even see the video? did you see the range? dont make excuses for that ahole. he knew full well what he was doing being that he used a fletchette round on a group of children and a news truck.

you say the tank commander was fearing for his life and shot out of self defense, because he couldnt tell that two news people and a bunch of kids on bikes were not leathal? first of all most of the insergents use outdated RPG's the effective range on one of those is about 50 yards. on a good day 150. but a mile and a half across a windswept valley to hit the fully armored front end of an israeli tank? that is more unbelievable than a steven segal movie...

its not like the insergants have the FGM-148 Javelin or something. most of them throw rocks at the tanks for crying out loud. i suppose the israeli commander was worried the kids would throw rocks from a mile away and knick the paint, so this was all justified.

this a hole knew exactly what he was doing and he knew he wasnt in danger. have you been to israel? have you ever met a member of their defense forces? they would do something like, this they are some hateful people.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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[


I suppose one must also consider the possibility, however far-fetched and seemingly implausible, that this tank crew misidentified their target; friendly-fire accidents happen frequently in battle zones.


You know that's what I thought at first. I mean c'mon who shoots a tank at a t.v crew?

quote]
who here has military experience, Besides myself? im just curious.

I do and I know there are several veterans as well as active duty military personel that frequent this site.
You make a perfectly valid point about mis-identifying the camera crew for a shoulder based launch platform. BUT I also know that tank crews have at the minimum a pair of binoculars available to identify potential risks. The American M1A2 Abrams has a video camera with all kind of zoom to identify objects. I'm sure that's not ground breaking technology. So unless there is a big factor left out of the equation that we don't know of, this appears to be a malicious attack.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:10 PM
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Actually its common military incident that shoulder cameras CAN BE MISTAKEN FOR LAUNCHERS, HEAD ON. And on top of that, there have been military groups that use 'tv trucks' to disguise their RPG users.

First thing I was taught when in classes and debating on the safety of military news reporters... that cameras can be mistaken for weapons, and media presence can be taken as a hostile situation. There is, I know for a fact, two other incidents AT LEAST. If I find links to them online Ill post them.

Hell, lets not forget the British shot down Glen Miller - in safe air space! ACCIDENTS CAN HAPPEN EVEN WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T. IT IS CALLED HUMAN ERROR.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by Foxe
 


they are over a mile away across a valley. rpg's cant go anywhere near that far effectivly.

if that was an accident, then i am gary coleman.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by TheRepublic
 


uhhg.. dont i feel foolish?.. no i dont.
but seriously.. im not defending said A-hole tank commander.
for all i know he just wanted to shoot is weapon, i dont know,, i really dont care other than people died which to me is allways a tragedy and im sorry if it sounds like im defending that tank crew. maybe i just have a guilty conscience for having made my own bones.
please dont make me get nit picky over vehicle system technology and human information input capability ill be ranting fo hours.. lol

i will openly admit here, that NO i did not see the video as i didnt figure they would have shown it. i am yielding to you in response to that and hope that you can enlighten me to where i might find this video and see for myself what is really happening.
i also admit that i did quickly respond to somthing that got under my skin and i suppose i should watch what i say even though its only a forum.
hope every one understands.

so uhhh ,, hmmm who here wants to go get some ice cream?



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by Foxe
 


The problem IMHO is that the IAF has made "mis-identifing" targets in occupied lands a habit as opposed to a accident of war it seems. Thier credibility is zero in this regard......



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by snowen20
 


well if i hadnt seen the video i might have thought it was an accident too.
(that is if i had never been to israel)

but unfortunatly i have been to israel, and i did see the video so i know all to well this is no accident.

check it out it will put all this more in perspective for you.
you can see the bikes scatered all around and pools of blood.

www.breitbart.tv...



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:26 PM
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I guarantee it wasn't an accident.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by TheRepublic
 


well after seeing it with my own eyes finally, i have to say unless there was another tank near by .. which is IMPOSSIBLE, that was indeed no accident. once again i have seen an example of pure and gratuitous hate.
i thank you for the video and allowing me to see exactly what happened.
your right, they were awfully far off. far enough away I had time to consider what was happening. max effective range for an rpg somthing like 300 yards maybe 450 on a stationary target, that was a hell of alot farther than that.

NO ACCIDENT>>> I agree.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:37 PM
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Contribution to the thread




posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by TheRepublic
the israelis knew what the were doing. the IDF is heartless gutless thugs.


I find it very hard to disagree with your quote, but on the other hand, the Palestinians do the same. I have no love for either side, especially when the IDF is using weapons designed and probably bought in a round about way by the American taxpayers. They are gutless Zionists, but the islamo degenerates are in the same ballpark.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by snowen20
 


yeah the video really tells the story much better than the text.
thank god we live in an information age where dirt like this cant be buried in the back of some newspaper but instead is posted on the internet for all to see with their own eyes. this was pure hate, and how that tank commander could pull that trigger on a bunch of kids... well i hope there is a special place in jewish hell for that guy to go to.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by highfreq
Contribution to the thread


Notice that the Israeli Press Office spokesman couldn't even apologize or express regrets.

He just used it as a platform to blame Hamas.

Accident, my **SNIP**

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.




[edit on 18-6-2008 by Crakeur]



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 09:14 PM
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Well, I'm gonna give this a shot.

Two Merkava 4s are most likely on patrol in the Gaza strip. Fighting is known to occur in this area. A drone in the area spots a large gathering of personnel on a small road about 700 meters from the tank's position with a few technicals near by. Someone is setting up what looks like to be a launcher near one of the technicals. No clear ID is made on the personnel nor is visual confirmation ever given of hostile intentions.

The tank commander receives the green light to engage the technical(one round fired as far as we can tell from the video, the technical was completely destroyed.).

This is of course completely my speculation and I may as well be completely wrong. What we have here are people not taking risks, with anything. A lot of civilians died and were hurt, no ignoring that. But it's not as uncommon as some might think, especially on both sides.

Like I've said, I might be farther from the truth, but I think that's what happened.

There's really no way to tell what was going on as non of us were there and no one knows what kind of communication and intel was being relayed to the tank commanders. We might never know.

Shattered OUT...



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