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Why all the secrecy surrounding UFOs? All theories welcome!

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posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Majorion
Interesting points SC, this is as close as I've ever seen you come to some sort of recognition of a cover up btw.


It is undeniable there is a UFO cover-up. What I disagree with is what is being covered-up. But skeptic or believer it is evident that various governments have used the UFO phenomenon for their own ends and needs.


Originally posted by Majorion
But could you elaborate further as a skeptic on the statement you just made?.. are you suggesting that we(humans) may be somehow prone to extraterrestrials or vice versa?


Yes; we don't know if germs born on an alien world could even affect us or vice-versa, but no one wants to find out the hard way. NASA has an office dedicated ensuring there is no cross-contamination as we explore other worlds. So, it is a real concern.


Originally posted by Majorion
.. and why/how would this serve as a reason for cover up?


If there is a cover-up of extraterrestrial visitation, I do not buy some of the more conventional reasons for the cover-up. For instance, it would not be because the evil United States government wants to control free-energy or techology; if an alien craft crashed here, it would be akin to a the Sentinelese finding a crashed-stealth bomber. Nor do I buy the explanation that the government covers-up visitation because it would cause the end of our institutions as we know them; people are far more mature than the UFO believers give them credit for (though it might not necessarily be responsible, at the moment, for the government to admit to visitation).

If contact does pose a biological threat, the cover-up may be to ensure that any exposure is contained and dealt with.




posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex
I do not buy some of the more conventional reasons for the cover-up. it would not be because the evil United States government wants to control free-energy or techology


Nor do I for the most part, especially the free energy reason. Although I've talked to some people, and they seem pretty convinced of this being one reason only.

But you have to agree that telling people something like; "hey, we've been engaged by extraterrestrials, and have been covering it up for over 60 years" might understandably cause at least a bit of chaos, not just in the U.S. but perhaps the entire world.

People in the U.S often neglect or fail to consider the rest of the world's possible reaction. Maybe the American people CAN handle the truth as John Podesta says, but how would the more religious conservative folk in other countries handle the news? .. I often wonder how a nation like Kuwait, or Saudi Arabia, or Iran may react to such information being released.


Originally posted by SaviorComplex
if an alien craft crashed here, it would be akin to a the Sentinelese finding a crashed-stealth bomber.


Excellent analogy SC, quite astute on your part.


Originally posted by SaviorComplex
If contact does pose a biological threat, the cover-up may be to ensure that any exposure is contained and dealt with.


With respect, I have to disagree with the above theory, it just doesn't add up or make sense to me. Even if this were true, I still fail to see why it would be a reason for such super imposed secrecy for over 60 years. IMO, The airforce immediately changed it's original story about Roswell; for the same reason they've evidently kept this stuff secret for so long.

Whatever it is they found there, they sure don't want to tell anyone about it.


Majorion



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 


I've no firm idea, other than my pre-existing evidence based prejudices, I suspect (suspect != believe, I have no evidence) #3 having read a little about Skyhook and later revelations about things like the D-21. They benefited from belief in alien UFOs. If NATO countries were using such things over the Soviet Bloc, they were doing the same to us, and no governments want to admit to their public their airspace has been violated. Furthermore, if nuclear fuels, hazardous substances like hydrazine, are in use no government would want to admit putting the public at risk (although they may argue that the benefits outweigh the risks). So better an alien UFO than a potentially hazardous foreign UFO over your territory. Even in the case of a shoot-down the risks of a war would be another incentive to cover it up and deal with it quietly.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by jackphotohobby]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Majorion
But you have to agree that telling people something like; "hey, we've been engaged by extraterrestrials, and have been covering it up for over 60 years" might understandably cause at least a bit of chaos, not just in the U.S. but perhaps the entire world.


Sure, it would cause a bit of chaos, but we would move on. People would remember they still have jobs to go to, bills to pay, and homework they need to help their kids with.


Originally posted by Majorion
I often wonder how a nation like Kuwait, or Saudi Arabia, or Iran may react to such information being released.


They would find ways to moving on, just like us. Just as we and they integrate scientific discoveries into our lives, they would do the same with this (albeit a bit larger).


Originally posted by Majorion
With respect, I have to disagree with the above theory, it just doesn't add up or make sense to me. Even if this were true, I still fail to see why it would be a reason for such super imposed secrecy for over 60 years.


Perhaps this will help it make sense: consider that smallpox killed 90-95% of the native population in the Americas; in Australia, it killed 50%. While yes there would be some chaos after it was announced we were being visited, it would be far, far worse if the government then said the extraterrestrials were carrying a disease that could wipe out most of the human race.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 08:45 PM
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For those who are interested I've greatly expanded the number of theories. I've also made the columns sortable to make it easier see which theories follow similar conceptual themes.

Here are some of the new ones thanks to folks posting in this thread:

  1. Lack of knowledge theory (courtesy Nablator). Reporting failure and lack of knowledge is not easy (tangential connection to CYA theory) and is always avoided:
    -Failure to understand their origin, motivation, physics.
  2. Ridicule theory. Even acknowledging that UFOs might exist, has the potential to destroy careers, ruin personal relationships, and can even result in people doubting the persons sanity. There's a strong chance government officials don't come forward simply for fear coworkers and ranking officers won't believe them.
  3. Robertson Panel theory. The Robertson Panel concluded that the government should debunk UFOs. "To some extent this was due to the 'crackdown' on 'unidentifieds' as recommended by the Robertson Panel (p. 11) in 1953" (Hynek UFO Report, pp 248)
  4. CYA Theory (courtesy Nablator). Reluctance to admit cover-up and lies during the last 60 years.
  5. Biological threat theory (courtesy SaviorComplex). "Consider that smallpox killed 90-95% of the native population in the Americas; in Australia, it killed 50%. While yes there would be some chaos after it was announced we were being visited, it would be far, far worse if the government then said the extraterrestrials were carrying a disease that could wipe out most of the human race."

Anyone have any others? The more the better, keep 'um coming!


[edit on 23-3-2009 by Xtraeme]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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Re: Xtraeme

I'm a folklorist and have primairily worked with folk-belief. This topic deals with the study of the supernatural. My intrests lie in the realms of the fairies and of what the Grimm Brothers described as the creatures of lower mythology. Now, since almost all fairy beliefs have long been extinct, I am left with studying their nearest relative, aliens and UFOs. The similarities between the fairy and alien realms are closer than we would expect. By divorcing the specifics and context of contemporary UFO stories we can look at the structure of these tales, many of these legends are re-hashed fairy legends. Fairy-tales are not fairy legends, fairy-tales (Märchen -- Kinder Sagen] are formulaic stories traditionally told to children. Fairy legends are what we folklorists call Memorates, which is German for a remembrance or recounting. These are first-hand narratives involving real people's encounters with the supernatural. This is what I collect, memorates. The memorates which I have collected concern first-hand sightings of what have become known as foo fighters. Here is a sample of my research.

As you may well know, foo fighters were sightings of mysterious "balls of light" that appeared to chase night fighter and bomber crews over the night skies of Germany and Japan during the later part of the second world war. Before I embarked upon my search for these individuals whom had seen these things I was going to need documentation. Really, I needed to know who I was looking for. So I began by scouring all the UFO literature in the IU Folklore Library. I got in touch with as many Ufologists as I could and they all assured me that I would find no goverment documentation on the foo fighters, rather that the goverment was conspiciously covering up these sightings. Me being stubborn, I turned to the USAF historical museum at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, from there a David Menard, a document archivist, pointed me in all the right directions. In total, I was able to retrieve nearly 4500 pages of de-classified Army-Air Corp documents from Wright-Patterson AFB, Boling AFB, Maxwell AFB and the Natational Archives and Records Administration as well as from individual Squadron Historians and Squadron Commanders. He also put me in touch with the World War Two Night Fighters Association and the 20th Air Force Association.

So, this alleged government coverup was whole-heartedly due to the shoddy research habits of the Ufologists themselves. What I think is really important here is that this is a reflexive phenomenon on many different levels. The first, and most obvious, is that these Ufologist lacked the ability and the language skills needed to acurately request these documents from these archivists and document custodians. Secondly, they lacked even the most fundamental and basic knowledge of how and where these documents were housed and the nomenclature by which they were indexed. Thirdly, they truly lacked even the most basic knowledge concerning the phenomenology of these sightings and the esoteric language of nocturnal combat aviators. Fourthly, they relied on misinformation provided to them by other Ufologists. These are critical errors in research! Really, one wonders how they found any foo fighter sightings at all. My best summation is that the scant references that the bulk of the Ufologist found was due, in large part, to their "vacuum sweeping" gathering techniques. From my extensive experiences in dealing with Ufologists, one can be assured that the concept of methodology is just as alien as is the topic of their research.

Please forgive my snottyness here, but this is the heart and soul of the modern UFO cover-up conspiracy, purely amateur research. UFOs and foo fighters justifiably fall within the study of folklore and psychology, not the fields of physics and engineering. How would Stanton T. Friedman, a Nuclear Physicist, feel if a Folklorist began to lecture him on quantum mechanics? Now, let's put the shoe the other foot, what real expertice does a Nuclear Physicist share with a Folklorist who specializes in collecting ethnographic data which encompasses the construction of cognative belief systems? Really now, we're talking apples and oranges arn't we? This type of reflection of intellectual chauvinism does nothing but fuel the furnace of conspiracy. Hell, I've been accused, on many occasion, of being an operative by the government, being sent out into the wilderness to aid and abet in this coverup. I even had to stop wearing my black leather jacket when holding interviews with UFO eye-whitnesses because by-the-by, I had found out that I had inadvertantly spurred a local MIB (men in black) legend. Sheeew! So let's call my theory the Researcher Fallibility Theory.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 


I so agree with most of those. Mainly the fact that the government covers-up. To me the government is like the vatican, they will cover-up what think is not very important or that they think we can't handle the truth. There's an old saying that goes "If you can't prove it, it doesn't exist." If that was true then why is there so much proof, and why are they coming out more often.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by Rotwang17
 


I read your paper. Definitely some quality research that many people here would benefit from reading. Even as a hard science type, I agree, there does seem to be a patterned mythological undercurrent to human history. It's hard to hand-wave the subject away after doing any real research in to flood and abortive creation myth. It becomes obvious this is more than the superstitious re-storytelling of our long dead ancestors when we look at how widespread and thematically similar legends are between cultures that in no way had any contact with each other.

Where I start to disagree with you is on the point that UFOs are purely the purview of folklore and psychology.


UFOs and foo fighters justifiably fall within the study of folklore and psychology, not the fields of physics and engineering.


In my estimation ufology is an interdisciplinary subject that calls on a number of specialties. To make my point, how can we rule out airborne vehicular devices if we don't consult pilots, aerospace engineers, and radar specialists to inquire whether these objects fall outside the parameters of modern-day technology? Likewise if man-made objects can be ruled out shouldn't we consult meteorologists, astronomers, radar physicists, atmospheric physicists and atmospheric chemists to confirm that we're not mislabeling a known spacial or atmospheric phenomenon? Even when these avenues run dry we still have theoretical and quantum physicists to help make sense of bizarre behaviors as predicted by the current state-of-the-art of cosmology.

I think we differ on this point because as you argued you see this phenomenon, at its heart, as fundamentally supernatural though perceived in such a way as to create a "technological belief" system.


The very nature of "belief legends," such as tales about ghosts, devils and the fairy people of antiquity, implies a greater reality than that which can be explained by using a natural and scientific method, thus it is lab[e]led as "super-" natural. In this sen[s]e the foo fighters are of a supernatural variety but they do not imply beliefs in the supernatural as such.

...

These types of beliefs fall within the genre of folklore known as belief legends, more precisely, technological belief legends.


I disagree with this conclusion. Ruling out all of the mundane possibilities doesn't mean that we can't use "natural and scientific" techniques to study the subject matter. I urge you to look at studies like Canada's Project Magnet, the US Project Twinkle, and the independent Norway investigation Project Hessdalen. There have been a number of novel experiments conducted using everything from active radar, passive radar (meaning whatever these things are they're emitting an electromagnetic beam), theodolites, magnetometers, spectral analysis, and much more to confirm, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that this is a physical and measurable phenomenon (see Hessdalen for more on this).

As a physical reality this rules out the notion that UFOs are representative of a psychological or physiological abnormality. This isn't to say psychology doesn't have a place in the study of ufology. Quite the contrary, since many participants see different things while observing UFOs I think it's of great interest how a persons mental state causes such aberrations, and the implications this has for the formation of 'belief systems.'

If I might be so bold, I believe your field of study, the study of folklore, fits in to the puzzle in the sense that it helps provide historical context and, perhaps more so than any other area of research, addresses the 'what is it question.' If you haven't already I highly recommend you read Jacques Vallee's 'Passport to Magonia.' He draws heavily on these ideas.

To comment on the field of ufology being rife with misinformation, poorly supported rhetoric, and sloppy research – I couldn't agree more.


So, this alleged government coverup was whole-heartedly due to the shoddy research habits of the Ufologists themselves.


While I can appreciate the frustration and displeasure evident in your post, that doesn't mean that others haven't conducted equally good research in areas of study outside of foo fighters. Brad Sparks, Leslie Kean, Bruce Maccabee, Michael Swords, Peter Sturrock, Richard Hall, Jerome Clark, and many others have done their homework and succeeded in unearthing a number of records.

IMHO I think the problem is one of time and funding. We have such a hodge-podge of material because no one's willing to fund honest research. Sensationalism sells. If it's not a problem of money it's a problem with people trying to force a desired outcome (ie/ Project Bluebook); or in the case of the now defunct NIDs organization, managerial incompetence and lack of general direction.


What I think is really important here is that this is a reflexive phenomenon on many different levels. The first, and most obvious, is that these Ufologist lacked the ability and the language skills needed to accurately request these documents from these archivists and document custodians.


It would be wonderful if you'd post an article here on ATS describing correct procedure. Many casual researchers I've run in to don't have the time or resources to visit the National Archive. Many people simply grasp for TS codewords to fish up individual documents from NASIC and WPAFB. I've done some digging myself in to projects like MCIAXO-3, trying to locate records related to EOTS (ca. 1948) from the Pentagon, NASIC, ATIC, AFOIN, AFOAI-AE, AFOAI-DA, MCG, MCI, MCIA, MCIAT, and MCIAXO, with little success.

I wholeheartedly encourage you to create a thread to expound on the process you use to conduct your research. I'll happily pitch in and contribute various libraries, systems, FOIA mailbox addresses, reading rooms, etc I've used during my own investigations.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Xtraeme]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 02:55 AM
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I think it may be that the governments just may not know enough about UFOs to announce them and at the same time making it`s citizens feel protected. They just wouldn`t seem in control.

But more importantly, we should be asking why are the UFOs themselves being so secretive?
They are the ones sneaking around.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 03:21 AM
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Hey JohnJohn appreciate the feedback



Originally posted by johnjohn808
But more importantly, we should be asking why are the UFOs themselves being so secretive? They are the ones sneaking around.


Agreed! I started a thread a few months ago called, "The non-interventionist policy of UFOs / aliens, why?" If you have theories, please, add them



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 03:27 AM
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IF the government admits UFO's are real , that would mean Aliens are real. The people would want to know who these Aliens are , where they come from , what they look like , skin color etc. Too many questions , too much panic and chaos. It's just never going to happen. It's the worlds greatest secret , and its slowly getting out. It will still take a while , at least 20+ years IMO.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 03:39 AM
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reply to post by nasacarl
 


Not necessarily. There are plenty of theories to go around. People with a DE-UFOP lean are pushing pretty hard on the "quantum manifestation" explanation these days.

I wouldn't be surprised if the government reopened the study of unidentified aerial objects and simply phased out the usage of 'UFO,' replacing it with the less suggestive 'UAP.' If the press confronts government officials about this, they can easily say,

"While Blue Book, a USAF project, demonstrated 95% of all sightings were misidentifications that left 5% outside the realm of explanation. Thankfully in the 40+ years since Blue Book closed its doors science has advanced enough that we now believe NASA can finally put an end to this chapter of American history. Eminent scientist XYZ has suggested one leading explanation is quantum manifestations. Dr. XYZ's team intends to put this theory to the test over the course of the following year."

Using this sort of wording officials can make the study of UFOs sound downright respectable! And this is amazingly accomplished by simply side-stepping the baggage associated with the ETH position.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Xtraeme]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 


you are not yet ready to find out that you are a product of intelligent design aka alien experiment.

any advanced civilisation would be treated as gods by a less advanced culture, the awakening is not too far away though, but beware of wolves in sheep clothing, there are a lot of races out there, not all are good

[edit on 24-3-2009 by EvilTwin666]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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The government is charged with maintaining the sovereignty of its airspace and protecting its citizens.

Alien craft that can willingly violate this airspace and abduct citizens at will obviously puts the government in a tight spot, and certainly underlies a reason for secrecy. In addition, if the government is incapable of stopping the intruders, they certainly wouldn't want the public to know this...as folks would then ask, "Then what are we paying YOU for?"....

In addition, takes two to Tango, so obviously the aliens desire secrecy too, for whatever purpose. Now we have two sides wanting something from the other. The aliens may want to visit, abduct, etc., where the government wants to maintain power and the status quo, and possibly even benefit from the technology.

A deal is probably not far from the mark. The details of the deal? Who knows, but just a logical exercise here...

The aliens don't seem to want conquest, or to "help" us, or they likely would have done so in the past 60 years...so the evidence points more towards simple curiosity or some medical reason.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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How about blackmail?

The aliens showed up, said "Look, we have this here weapon that can obliterate your entire planet in less than a minute. Unless you want us to use it, you had better let us do whatever we want and help us keep it all secret."

Well, okay, that might be stretching it a bit .. but isn't it possible that the aliens could be hanging some sort of threat over the PTB?



[edit on 24-3-2009 by Heike]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by Heike
 


why would they want to destroy what they have created



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by Rotwang17
 

So, this alleged government coverup was whole-heartedly due to the shoddy research habits of the Ufologists themselves. ...

Please forgive my snottyness here, but this is the heart and soul of the modern UFO cover-up conspiracy, purely amateur research.

...
So let's call my theory the Researcher Fallibility Theory.


I'd like to go on the record and say I don't believe that the government is operating a sanctioned conspiracy (ie/ a secret agreement to achieve some illicit or harmful objective). So I agree with you on the point that some UFO research (based partly on sloppy research) has put forward incorrect, false-positives supporting the "official secrecy" or "cover-up" theory. On the other hand I completely 100% disagree with your statement that it's the "the heart and soul of the modern UFO cover-up conspiracy."

It's irrefutable that the military has outright misled the public. Leading many to believe that there is a cover-up. Whether officials have lied, due to legitimate national security concerns, or simply misspoken, out of ignorance, well, that's anyone's guess.

Here's a great example. Lets take the 1956 RAF Bentwaters radar case and the 1957 RB47 encounter. Both of these events had air and ground radar confirmations. In 1966 CBS did a report on the UFO topic titled, "UFO: Friend, Foe Or Fantasy."

At 43:18 the field journalist asks a military official,

Has there ever been a report of a flying saucer, captain, that's was translated in to hard-information, right here, a plot on the board in this room.


Captain Gary Reese (sp?), an Airforce radar officer with the North American Defense command replies,

I don't think so Bill, for the reason, that these sightings have never been substantiated and could not be translated in to hard radar return figures.


Bill follows up with,

There have been sightings then but they've turned out to be other things, airplanes or balloons ...


Gary finishes the sentence for him,

But never a saucer.


Bill continues,

You see everything up to roughly 100,000 ft?


The captain confirms,

Yes that's right, up to approximately 100,000 ft at which point the space tracking network takes over.


Lies and ignorance do not a conspiracy make, but they sure as hell make people rightly wonder if there is a cover-up. Especially as you add up the number of oddities.
  1. The trashing of the Project Sign conclusions outlined in the 1948 Estimate of the Situation.
  2. The bizarre news release that there was a saucer crash in Roswell and the four conflicting official explanations that followed: weather balloon, project Mogul, project Excelsior, and project High Dive.
  3. The ethically questionable way US private citizen Paul Bennewitz was handled by the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI).
And the list goes on and on.


[edit on 25-3-2009 by Xtraeme]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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Re:Xtraeme


There is no idea, however ancient and absurd, that is not capable of improving our knowledge. The whole history of thought is absorbed into science and is used for improving every single theory. Nor is political interference rejected. It may be needed to overcome the chauvinism of science that resists alternatives to the status quo.
Against Method - Paul Feyerabend

Thanks for the reply, there are many important points you touched upon which I feel really do need to be elaborated on. Let's start at the top.


In my estimation ufology is an interdisciplinary subject that calls on a number of specialties. To make my point, how can we rule out airborne vehicular devices if we don't consult pilots, aerospace engineers, and radar specialists to inquire whether these objects fall outside the parameters of modern-day technology? Likewise if man-made objects can be ruled out shouldn't we consult meteorologists, astronomers, radar physicists, atmospheric physicists and atmospheric chemists to confirm that we're not mislabeling a known spacial or atmospheric phenomenon? Even when these avenues run dry we still have theoretical and quantum physicists to help make sense of bizarre behaviors as predicted by the current state-of-the-art of cosmology.


The Psychologist, Muzafer Sharif, PhD, set about in his landmark study, The Psychology of Social Norms, to explain human behavior within a group context. He primarily used ambiguious stimuli upon his test subjects which confirmed that when in a group context, individuals will tend to comform their interpretations of the ambiguious stimuli to that of the person in the group with the most percieved authority. This is very important when we weigh this with Paul Feyerabend's concept of Scientific Chauvinism. Why, when faced with ambiguious choices, we do tend to side with those choises which are percieved as the most authoritative. Most importantly, the people you did not mention are the eye-whitnesses. Speaking to an eye-whitness with a 6th grade education is more valuable than hearing the opinions of 100 PhDs. Our above dialectic argument concerning our choices in interpreting UFO's is a good example; your choices were meteorologists, astronomers and physicists, mine were folklorists and psychologists. Your leanings are towards interpreting this ambiguious phenomenon as objective, while mine are subjective. Now, can subjective phenomena be studied in an objective and scientific manner? Very much so. Thus, this chauvinism reveals both of our biases.

In fact, the ambiguious stimuli that Dr. Sherif had used in his experiments which pioneered the study of social norms was the autokinetic illusion. The autokinetic illusion was first discovered by an astronomer, Alexander Von Humbolt in 1799. Although he was not aware of the fact that this was a subjective phenomonon, he believed that it was a real and objective attribute of some stars and planets. Now, why did he not interpret this as a subjective phenomonon? He was a scientist and believed in the scientific method, now why was he totally unable to make the distinction between the objective and subjective reality of this movement? Here we go again, Scientific Chauvinism, he had absolutely no training in distuinguishing between objective and subjective phenomena. Until 1857, Von Humbolt and, perhaps, all of humanity were incapable of making this distinction. Now, how was the autokinetic illusion interpreted by the common man, without a PhD in astronomy, in the early 19th century? The Will-o'-the-wisp! A psychologist, Dr. G. Schweitzer, collected stories concerning the Will-o'-the-wisp from all over Europe and in 1857 conclusively demonstrated in a laboratory that this erratic movement of a light viewed at night was indeed a subjective phenomenon. Why was it a psychologist and not an astronomer that was able to make this discovery? Because psychologists were trained on how to distinguish the difference between objective and subjective phenomena.

Ok, let's take Muzafer's experiment on establishing group norms in a laboratory and redefine the context. First, let's take 11 men and clearly rank them in an unambiugious hiarchy. Next, let's place them in a "real world" laboratory, perhaps a B-29 bomber flying at night. Now, let's place them in a life threatening situation, perhaps at about 5000 feet above Tokyo on the 25th of May of 1945. Finally, lets expose them to an ambiguious stimulus, the autokinetic illusion. What possibly could the outcome be? This was exactly what the US Naval Flight Psychologist, Dr. Edgar Vinacke, was confronted with in June of 1945 when he was tasked to define the concept of Aviator's Vertigo. Here are his conclusions:


"Pilots do not have sufficient information about phenomena of disorientation, and, as a corollary, are given considerable disorganized, incomplete, and inaccurate information. They are largely dependent upon their own experience, which must supplement and interpret the traditions about 'vertigo' which are passed on to them. When a concept thus grows out of anecdotes cemented together with practical necessity, it is bound to acquire elements of mystery. So far as 'vertigo' is concerned, no one really knows more than a small part of the facts, but a great deal of the peril. Since aviators are not skilled observers of human behavior, they usually have only the vaguest understanding of their own feelings. Like other naive persons, therefore, they have simply adopted a term to cover a multitude of otherwise inexplicable events."(Vinacke, Edgar. 8 May 1946. "The Concept of Aviator's 'Vertigo.'" Report No.#7. U.S. Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3). Reprinted in Journal of Aviation Medicine. 1948. 19:158-190)


The foo fighters only reaffirm the need to divorce objective from subjective phenomena. This was the explicit intent behind Project X-148-Av-4-3.

Finally, about my methodology, I'm not Ufologist, nor do I feel any real aspirations of becoming one. Once upon a time, the Fund For UFO Research made me a pitch for research funds, but I kindly begged out. I really could have used the money, but I do not feel that I have any loyalties to this group. The very thought of wearing a bridle really is in conflict with all of the concepts that I purvey. If I had the financial freedom to choose, I would pursue a PhD in psychology, but I don't. Perhaps if I pimped-up the foo fighters into a super cool novel I could afford to buy a PhD, but I really do believe that would be immoral. So far as starting my own thread on "How To..." I really feel that would be like asking a pianist to teach you how to play Chopin with oven mitts on. There is no easy way around getting your hands dirty digging, you just gotta dig. Knowing where to dig is what a university education teaches you. Never forget that an open mind is open to all possibilities and not just the ones that you like. I've read everything that Paul Feyerabend has published and man, that was like sucking on a tube of Preparation H! But because I didn't enjoy reading all of his collected works as much as I did all of Carl Jung's or James G. Frazer's collected works dosn't mean that I didn't learn a lot from him. In all, there are a lot of really tallented and guifted men and women's works that are just rotting on the library shelves in the Universities of America today. A good, honest and well rounded education is hard to come by in this country anymore. That's why I chose the IU Folklore Institute, it's the best in the world. The professors there are beyond belief.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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Re:Xtraeme

Hey, I'll get back with you tomorrow on the last post. I'm really impressed with your level of intrest in this stuff. I gotta do the mundane eating and sleeping thing now.

Thanks



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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Re:Xtraeme

Yes, I may have been a little over inclusive by saying that the whole UFO cover-up thing is soley due to poor research. There may be a very good likelihood that the UFO phenomonon was intentionally exagerated by the government as misinformation. Why, in March of 1946 Churchill ushered in the Cold War with his Iron Curtian speech. The US and Britian were activly confronting the Soviets by June of 1948 during the Berlin Airlift. This could have very nearly kicked off the big one. Again with Korea in June of 1950 the cold war began to simmer. With the Soviets testing their first atomic bomb, Joe 1, just one year earlier the world was poised on the brink of an Atomic War. By 1998 nearly 2000 nuclear devices had been detonated globally, of which about 500 were open atmospheric tests. This is a fitting context for a disinformation campaign to be unleashed in a open democratic society who's leadership was just begining to go Stark Raving Mad!

It seems only fitting that the Government would have employed this type of "White Noise" in the media in order to keep the American people blinded to it's grotesque behavior. They very nearly came to all out nuclear war in 1950, 1956, 1961, 1967, 1973, 1986 and 1995. That the government employs disinformation, to me, seems fairly obvious, while I was stationed in Central America in the early 1980s we were flying covert ops all over the place. We were flying covert ops out on Howard AFB with the 1st Special Ops wing (AC-130 H Spectre Gunships) and 193rd Special Ops wing (EC-130E Volant Solo -- PSYOPS.) We were involved in all of the most nasty sh*t you could imagine, but we were never there. Try to find anything on these deployments at Howard AFB in the early 1980s, Our Det. deployments and all of our ops have been sanitised from the unit histories. We were also operating the School of the Americas (SOA) out of Albrook AFB Panama and Ft. Clayton Panama. Almost half of the foreign soldiers we trained in the SOA were later identified as members of "Death Squads" (Escuadrón de la Muerte) which were butchering civilians all over El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Colombia. It has been estimated that nearly a quarter of a million civilians (100,000 Native Mayan Indians) were murdered by these Death Squads. In 1994 the UN unearthed 669 mass graves in Guatamala alone! We also trained El Salvadoran air crews at Albrook AFB to man six AC-47 Spooky gunships which unleashed hell in the countryside of El Salvador. One of the most surreal images I can remember having in my entire life was flying over the Honduran-Nicaraguan border and seeing nearly a hunderd columns of smoke from what appeared to be burning villages for as far as the eye could see off into the horizon.

My point is that these people will do anything to keep the American people distracted and blinded to the sheer brutality of it's own government. When I left Central America in 1985, I went home on leave. God, I talked to my friends and college buddies and they all heard nothing about what was going on down there. They had heard nothing in the media about us fighting in El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala and Colombia. They did remember something about the invasion of Grenada, but very little. To say the least, I was very distraught. One evening I was sitting in a tavern in my home town and a good buddy of mine pulled up a bar stool and bought me a beer. He said, "Hey, your're in the Air Force right?" I told him that I just returned from Central America and he leaned over and said, "Man, I really need to talk to you!" I thought to myself, finally, someone wants to know what we are doing down there... He looked at me with a very solemn look in his eyes then asked me, "What does the Air Force know about UFOs?" You know, here we were in rural America blithering away about some strange lights over Uncle Joe's corn field... while in Guatemala and El Salvador they know that when these strange lights appear a fire storm of death falls from the sky. "Death From Above" is the motto of the 1st Special Ops wing.



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