BREAKING: Prophet Yahweh TRIES TO TWIST Challenge to Summon UFOs For ATS and FAILS

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I have really appreciated your sideways humor during all this process. Goodonya mon (that's Patoiaussie for well done)

I can't believe that anybody who retains their sanity don't see how much of a complete fake Ramon Watkins is. There's a reason why religion is completely blocked out from the scientific process and in order for ufology to crawl back out of the toilet, scientific standards need to reintroduced. In the past year I've noticed that the content relating to the field has slowly dwindled into a mass of complete idiocy.

As far as I'm concerned ATS has absolutely no reason to disprove this guy because he can't even prove his claims without shady circumstances. Why should anybody from this community dish out money to disprove something that has never been proven in the first place? It makes absolutely no sense.

I can't even imagine the amount of money pouring into this guy's coffers through exploiting the gullible. The whole institution is built upon the want and dire need of your money. Shouldn't that put some severe doubt into their intentions?

I started reading this thread with interest, but now it appears it is just a stain on ATS's reputation. If I ever came across ATS in conjunction with Ramon I would never have bothered stopping here. This nonsense should end now.

I don't recall prophets in the past taking out legal contracts in their preaching and lessons.

Why, oh why, do I still keep coming back to this thread? It's a serious thing, this seeing the thread and automatically clicking on it........ I just HAVE to see what is said. I think it's a sure indication of the dreaded and often fatal "blogger addiction disease". BAD isn't just for tourists on cruise ships anymore. It effects us ALL. Nevermore. SWAAAAAWK!!!

Steps over the bodies and pools of blood, the empty pop corn bags, avoiding the spilled cokes and beer, and surveys the damage.

One body bag for the delusional hoaxster, coming right up! NEXT!!!

It has been said that Freedom of Speech was Not intended to protect that speech with which we agree, but that speech with which we vehemently Disagree.


I think, much the same can be said for what might be called Standards of Behaviour, those unspoken deeply held rules by which each of live such that we are able to face ourselves in the mirror each morning without loathing. The Standards by which we live are not intended to sail us through the easy trials of life, but as toeholds to which we can cling for dear life in the most trying of dilemas.


I think this whole affair has been a defining example of the High and Honorable Standards by which ATS reflects the courage, insight, and Honor of its founders, stewards and members.


What we have been privileged to witness in these many pages was not so much a challenge to un-mask a con-man in a fancy hat (loved the hat!); what we have, in truth, witnessed is the revelation of ATS and the True Colors it can be expected to abide by no matter what it may face in its future.


I, for one, am both humbled and very proud of my association with you all.


Soon, (I know, not soon enough for many of us!) Springer and the Roswell Team will be releasing to the public at large documents assembled painstakingly over many years by our own Clifford Stone.

The nature of the documents is such that the eyes of the world may well be upon our little forum; with an intensity none of have yet trully imagined.


Whether ATS can survive such scrutiny, and more importantly, How ATS survives that ordeal, bears directly on the character, courage, and commitment we have seen and provided in this thread.


These are the Standards by which ATS will be known.

Originally posted by jritzmann
Can I ask something...

Why the hell are you even engaging this...individual?

Do you have any concept that even acknowledging this garbage gives it some sort of twisted legitimacy??

Do you realize at all, that there are decent cases out there to be looked at and talked about, and if your so inclined, engaged....and you're busy giving this joker the time of day???

Yeah, and some people in this "field" wonder why we're not getting anywhere.

hear hear!

For a website with the motto "Deny Ignorance", I sure have seen a lot of it in this thread. These are just a random collection of various items from the entirety of this thread, and my thoughts on it. Before I even get to those items, I would like to say something. If this guy has said "X will happen" and it did not, he cannot be a prophet, BY BIBLICAL DEFINITION. What he calls himself is of no consequence to me. He claims to be able to call down UFOs, and on one occassion he APPEARED to do it. No one has conclusively debunked (i.e., positively identified the objects in question) that video. What this means to me is this: "This guy MAY be able to do what he said. He appeared to do it once. This would be worth seeing replicated." That's it, nothing more. In summary, I'm neither for nor against the guy. I just would like my curiosity satisfied one way or the other.

Now on to my criticisms of this whole thread.

There were no standards set forth of what would constitute proof. It is well known that critics and debunkers move the goal post, meaning that once a certain level of proof is obtained, they then say that you need more proof. And once that is obtained, even more proof. Repeat until failure, then the critics and debunkers scream "Fraud! Hoax! Scam!" This is WELL KNOWN to anyone who has approached "fringe" things with an open (i.e., undecided) mind.

This guy is getting crucified on this board, because he wants to have attorneys set up a legally binding agreement. Now, follow my train of thought for a minute here. This guy really believes he can call down UFOs, and that one of these times, THEY ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO LAND. Whether he can or not, and whether aliens are going to land or not is of NO CONSEQUENCE. HE BELIEVES THIS TO BE TRUE. Switch tracks with me a second.

What would be the financial worth of the first ABSOLUTELY UNDEBUNKABLE FOOTAGE OF ALIENS LANDING ON EARTH? Think about how much money that would be worth. Does anyone have a guess of what that copyright would be worth? Hundreds of millions? Billions? Remember, every news media outlet on earth would want to play that footage. Now, let's get back to my previous thought. Since this guy ACTUALLY BELIEVES THERE IS A CHANCE A UFO WILL LAND, AND ALIENS WILL GET OUT OF SAID CRAFT, can you blame him for wanting to protect the financial aspect of any test? Remember, it doesn't matter if it IS true, it's how HE is perceiving the matter. If any of you REALLY BELIEVED that you would obtains millions, hundreds of millions, or billions from something you did, wouldn't you want lawyers involved?

Another point. I used to think that people involved in "fringe" theories were, generally speaking, smarter than average. My entire time on this board has me rethinking that position. Very clearly, reading comprehension is not what it should be for a group of educated people. One guy claimed that PY was "refusing" because he said "I do not like to....". Not only is this assertion illogical, it doesn't even make GRAMMATICAL sense! I bet most people "don't like" working for a living, but that doesn't mean they "refuse" to work for a living. Very, very, very seldom do you see someone on here say "Oh, sorry, I misunderstood what you said."

Glad to see the Hegelian Dialect alive and well on this board. You either have to be FOR or AGAINST something. No one is allowed to (metaphorically, and sometimes literally) say "Let's wait and see", or "More proof is needed". No, when somebody posts something controversial, immediately the sides start lining up in "for" and "against". Criminy people! I thought we left behind that type of thinking in high school, but apparently I am vastly over-rating the maturity of some people here.

Next, the removal of the videos from Youtube. How can someone force you to remove something that depicts THE TRUTH? In other words, if you aren't lying and twisting it out of context, there is precious little that can be done to silence you. Notice that the videos weren't removed because of a copyright claim, or pending litigation. NO, they were removed BY THE USER. If you really believed with all your heart that PY is a con-man, why would you VOLUNTARILY remove the videos? Remember, truth is an ABSOLUTE defense against slander and libel.

As to the whole "He can now use ATS to say that he can call down UFOs" claims. How in God's name did we get to the point where CHALLENGING someone was equated with "I think you can do it!"?! Would anyone on here CHALLENGE Tiger Woods to hit a 300 yard drive? No, that would be ludicrous! You might ASK him to do it, you might CAJOLE him to do it, you might even BEG him to do it, but you most certainly wouldn't CHALLENGE him to do it. A challenge, in this context, either implies or demonstrates that you do not believe the claims that the person is making.

As to those of you who are making fun of his "KKK" territory remark. You don't know Central Indiana very well, do you? There most certainly is a small city that is not that far from Indianapolis that is reputed to be a hotbed of racist activity. Whether this is a deserved reputation or not is another matter, but I will say this: this reputation is well known in both the black and white communities in central Indiana, and ESPECIALLY INDIANAPOLIS. In fact, here is a link to a story about this very subject: www.splcenter.org... If they tried to conduct this test in Martinsville, you can be assured with absolute certainty those "journalists" knew EXACTLY what the rumors were about that place, and did it on purpose. Would ANY of us feel safe going into an area reputed (for over 100 years, no less) to hate our race? I don't think so. So, before you discount PY's story as ridiculous or implausible, you'd better find out more about it. If they tried to get him to go to Martinsville (or even succeeded), I can see why he'd be paranoid about avoiding such situations in the future.

If there were as many "businessmen" on here as there claim to be, the fact that he said he wants to get attorneys involved should surprise NO ONE. If you haven't ever had your corporate attorney go "you want to do WHAT? Uh uh, no way. Not without getting it in writing", then you haven't done much business.

(continued)

As I see it, no one on ATS is obligated to do any sort of test. But I think it is disingenous to say that PY "tries to twist challenge", unless I have misunderstood what PY has written (and it is possible). From what I see, he is merely trying to protect his financial interests. And, considering that HE REALLY THINKS THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF UFOS LANDING AND MAKING CONTACT WITH HUMANS, I can understand where he is coming from. (I'm not saying I believe that, but I am saying that I believe HE believes it.)

I do not make a claim one way or the other on PY. Neither for, nor against. I merely say that it is interesting.

And if a test is ever conducted, the guidelines on what is or isn't "proof" should be laid out in advance, so there can be absolutely no goal-post moving.


Edited to include a "stop underline", and to insert the word "not"
[edit on 17-6-2008 by sir_chancealot]

[edit on 17-6-2008 by sir_chancealot]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
Well, i can splain.

What better way to prove it once and for all? Right!??

__________________________

Ramon, no seas mentiroso. Manda un OVNI para aca, si tienes huevos!!!!

Your friend, dg

reply to post by MrdDstrbr



Not true... He can simply be ignored for the drek he brings... ATS doesn't have to jump through hoops to prove or disprove every charlatan or wannabe messiah that happens along.

I really don't believe that he has proven anything beyond a doubt, or even enough to get ATS involved...

I'm currently working in a "political" environment, and there is a caveat/rule of thumb that strikes me as apropos to the type of booshwa...

Any press is good press.

In otra palabras, ignore the buffalo yak and it will go away...

Ok, Ramon,

No UFO's.

I will give you 2 more nights.

Sorry for coming in late, but is Ramon/Yahwye here on this thread?

reply to post by antar

No, think he was banned, i'm hoping he can still read this!!

Originally posted by dgtempe
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Well, i can splain.

What better way to prove it once and for all? Right!??

DG... It doesn't matter. We can get along perfectly without that type of junk. If we cater to this little wad of spittle, then we'd have to try and prove every tin horn, two bit, wannabe, Master of something that came along, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

__________________________

Ramon, no seas mentiroso. Manda un OVNI para aca, si tienes huevos!!!!

Your friend, dg

reply to post by MrdDstrbr

I never really was that interested in this guy, but... this has gotten my attention. I am part of a very small and humble paranormal investigative organization and would love to have a shot at investigating this guy. We could even have a thread with suggestions for the investigation like they do when Dave Rabbit is interviewing someone. It would be a blast. I'm not afraid of being anywhere alone with this guy. I'm a former Marine and I have many years experience in the security field. I've also been accused of being evil and vindictive so maybe I would fit his white man description. The name thing fits too. And not just the "S" part.

reply to post by sir_chancealot


I see your point if you are in the mindset that you choose to speak from. And that mindset is to give the guy the benefit of the doubt under the rules man has laid out as a guidepost for what is right.

There is NO REALITY... there is ONLY PERCEPTION

But we at one time condoned slavery.
Which was wrong and it's proof that you need to step away from normal perception in this way and look from eyes that are spiritually based.
So you have to let go of YOUR guideposts and he has to let go of those guideposts as well. If he truly is what he says he is, then he would NEVER of connected the KKK with ATS.
He would NEVER of mentioned regret for anothers man's choice not to believe him
He would NEVER have pumped it up like it was the next "Big Thing"
He would NEVER keep using a past incident as a reason to use racial undertones in his wordings as a justified train of thought.

If UFO's that were here to changes the world did it for him than I tell you now that I could not EVER trust those beings.

Jesus said love your neighbor, turn the cheek, do not judghe etc... his words DRIP with the opposite train of though... how can he possibly represent or say he represents with his views?.

He puts me on the side against him because my spirit which IS searching for the truth CRINGES when I read his words.

So do I say 100% that he can't "summon" a ufo? no..
but if he can, run like hell from those FO's because if his words are pois then so are they.

I have been privy to some racial events that are shown only in movies now.
I'm deep south raised and this man and his words are poison.

Any ufo that lands for him for a TV spot to make millions to buy everyone a tin foil hat is also poison.

b

reply to post by sir_chancealot


Yeah seriously, there was no "debunking" here. Both PY and Springer and negotiating very shrewdly, should this event happen. I know both PY and the ATS crew here would be happy to share the profits for their respective organizations should PY prove to Springer & the gang he's for real. Nothing wrong with that as we are all locked into this stupid funny-money-paper-chase whether we like it or not. Whether you like it or not, prophet Yahweh (testify brother! :p ) is right to an extent. Bandwidth and a host cost money too don't they Springer?! It would be real right(either way)? It would be history right? You'll probably see it on youtube eventually anyways right? So whatever, have the lawyers do the legal pow-wow, get it all handled then there will be no more "he said, she said" BS, we'll all know once and for all about PY won't we?

I'm sure Springer will handle the ATS side with pure intention

I see Springer changed the title of the thread...

Did he post anything?

or did he just change the thread title to try to make other look bad?

reply to post by Shakesbeer

And you illustrate my point.
If "Profit Bahway " were real, then he wouldn't need money or need to ask for money. He would drive from town to town summoning UFO's for anyone who asked. He would be taken care of.

But that STILL makes no sense.

An awakening that would be in such a profound "spiritual" manner would JUST HAPPEN via the emergence of these "UFOs. If it happens another way then it's suspect. period.

Springer is here to make money by also being a part of something he enjoys and something he considers a way as contribution as well. Are you telling me that you are putting Springer in the prophet category? Bahway is putting himself in a Springer category...

It seems the whole concept of this is based around money and mistsrust. Well duh..
a prophet for a spiritual awakening would be vehemently against it.

All Bahway has to do is trust in Yahweh that he will be taken care of.. but he doesn't. Which makes him a spiritual fraud and is the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS.

b