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Bush: Critics Of Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, and Rendition are 'Slandering America'

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posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky


As for those who say the laws were always there, sorry you are wrong. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that defines or outlines the steps to take when engaged in war with another nation, much less a bunch of islamo-fascist terrorists who wear no uniform or carry no flag.



You know the art of learning.. Is self awarness. Its only then you can act and too respond. America does not learn, the country have lost ability to self reflect. Instead it lashes out like a child with a tantrum. Its like father and child relationship. Father hits child and son hits child. Never ending behaviour until both learn to be aware of their own actions on each other.


Now to make it really simple for you as most Americans cannot understand.....
quote by jsobecky

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that defines or outlines the steps to take when engaged in war with another nation


"The reality is America isn't learning yet judging by the quote above. nation does not know what to do but lash out. That is what the quote can be translated too.


If you apply awareness and intellegence, you can respond or act to the most difficult of conflicts. Starting with the going back to the beginning, finding out how it began, finding out what behaviour I or as a nation is responsible for to might have caused this conflict, what is it am I projecting onto the world and what am I doing or as a nation in attracting this chaos to me.... Taking responsiblity for your actions, is your 50%. When you start lthis your learning. you respond in a likewise fashion.


Lashing out is a sign your doing wrong and your not in control of the situation. This goes back to the basic psycology of family where the child lashes back at the parent like I said earlier. The child needs to start becoming aware, which is what is the norms to become an adult. Changing yourself is the first step. Not you trying to change the world. Start with you, not them. People or nations will naturally follow example. America needs a really close wake up call. stop forcing the world to suit you.



[edit on 17-6-2008 by mind is the universe]

[edit on 17-6-2008 by mind is the universe]




posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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There is NOTHING in the Constitution that defines or outlines the steps to take when engaged in war with another nation





Newsflash, there is no constitution.

It was just a piece of paper because that is all you treated it as, you never defended it, you never upheld it. Now you got nothing. You win nothing. You left it too late.

Congratulations contestant.





[edit on 17-6-2008 by mOOmOO]


Mod Edit - Do Not Edit Moderator Edits. This previously was a one line post.



[edit on 17-6-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by mOOmOO
 


I quoted that from somebody else....

you said it, it shows we don't even a method in dealing with anything... LOL... but you understand my point on my earlier post.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 

Does Haliburton, KBR & Blackwater have any meaning to you. I would love to believe our government is doing the right thing but I always end up moving the veil to see for my own eyes.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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well.. as I've said before...the UN's stance as well as the US has ALREADY ruled on this.. so ... I have no idea how he can say this crap ..

torture



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Komodo
well.. as I've said before...the UN's stance as well as the US has ALREADY ruled on this.. so ... I have no idea how he can say this crap ..

torture


Let's examine this for one moment from the perspective of waterboarding, an admitted means of extracting information from a captive.

Hypothetically - the process of waterboarding some of the detainess at Guantanamo has supplied information to us that has allowed us to prevent several other terrorist attacks on American soil whose casualty rate would have doubled 9/11.

Now taking that into account answer this one question - is waterboarding wrong if it saves tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of lives?



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 



When the claim was made (I am assuming you're not making it up) that they 'successfully prevented more terrorist attacks on US soil', did they actually explain what it was they 'prevented'? Or do we just accept that the torture worked because they tell us so? Do we abandon the principle we as a nation claimed to uphold because someone 'says' that it worked? Who did they stop, and from doing what, exactly?



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 


Ah yes, the ever-hypothetical "ticking bomb" scenario that raving, frothing paranoiacs like Alan Dershowitz love to bring up, and with which raving, frothing fascist wackos like Bush and other neocons merrily agree... How many prisoners, isolated, and like at Gitmo (or for the most part), have been there a long time, are going to possess truly valuable information about an imminent attack? Chances are extremely slim to, more realistically, none. Torture is only for what the torturers WANT to hear. I'd assert that I'm Peter Pan and my wallet is Tinkerbell if I was waterboarded into it.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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Hotel America.

Luxuries include private jet and all the water you can drink. FREE!

It is like internment in Northern Ireland. As long as it wasn't happening to mainland Britain then it was fine, now they introduced it in mainland Britain, now it is horrid!

Which is it?

Not in my back yard syndrome?

It will never happen to you? Think again, you lost Hebus Corpus and have no constitution. It can happen to you.

I really cannot wait until that day comes, then you will pull your head from Uranus and open your eyes but... too late.




[edit on 17-6-2008 by mOOmOO]



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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Neither of you answered the question, as I said - hypothetically - that means let's assume that waterboarding did in fact prevent a terrorist attack that would have surely cost the lives of thousands of American people.

In that case, is waterboarding a prisoner or a group of prisoners justified?

I think I know how you will answer but you're insisting on skirting the issue with rhetoric in order not to give a response.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by sos37
Neither of you answered the question, as I said - hypothetically - that means let's assume that waterboarding did in fact prevent a terrorist attack that would have surely cost the lives of thousands of American people.

In that case, is waterboarding a prisoner or a group of prisoners justified?

I think I know how you will answer but you're insisting on skirting the issue with rhetoric in order not to give a response.



If you go to their level then you are no better than them. Whoever they are, the bogey man brigade?



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 04:00 PM
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"Their" level??? We're talking about saving thousands of innocent lives versus a prisoner of war's personal discomfort. Are you saying that you wouldn't waterboard based on not wanting to stoop to "their" level?



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 


After WW2 US military, tried , convicted and exectuted japanese military officers for water-boarding POW`s.

so it was wrong in WW2 but 64 years later its now ok?



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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Amen brother!!! Char-broil the whole lot of em. After we blow them all up this world will be better, we can become the christian nation Jefferson envissioned. Set up detention camps for all the non patriots!!!( In fact we should send these first few to the Bay.) Why should G.W need to ask questions anyways? This is America and the president is King I am going to miss Bush so much. You Liberals are going to destroy us all...We will be a nation of fruity, book reading Muslims praying to budda every two hours.Kill em all

GW



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 04:24 PM
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Now that is childish and the lowest a human being can actually go. You have the mentality of a spoilt kid, who cant find his toys. So you believe that in order to get what you want. You throw a tantrum and rage that is deemed perfectly ok for everyone to put up with... Then its like "lets go kill them they took my toys" and that should make it all OKKKKKKKKKK. That exactly the attitude that the world really disrespects. Why should we accept that. Why should we put up with that. This is the reason we are in this mess, Because America is so incompetent and ignorant of the rest of the world.


Grow the *BLANK*up. This American ignorance is disgusting. Its 2008 get with reality and learn to respect other nations other than yourself. Mind you, you don't even have self respect come to think of it. We are not enemies to kill. We are actually people. America is not a saint and far from one. YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE NOTION OF ACTION AND REACTION. its very real and America was not attacked for no reason. American has been invading and blowing up countries for thier desires since the second world war. AND now its time to stop it. There is humanity all over the world, not just america


IMO Your should be banned for saying stuff like that here.. I'm really shocked. How dare you insult us. Bush says this crap all the time. Its so inhuman.


Just to show your ignorance Muslims don't pray to Budda, its Allah...


I'm sure many decent Americans would be well embarrased by your vile attitude and utter stupidity.



[edit on 17-6-2008 by mind is the universe]

[edit on 17-6-2008 by mind is the universe]

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 6/17/08 by FredT]



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 04:26 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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Amazing, no one's answering the question directly. Everyone is answering the question like a POLITICIAN!

I'm not trying to cast any judgments or make labels, I'm asking a a hypothetical question!

Assume a prisoner has info you need to prevent a dirty nuke from going off in a highly populated area. Right now he refuses to say anything. But if you waterboard him, he will most likely crack and tell you where the bomb is hidden. Is it acceptable to waterboard this man if this is the only means of finding the bomb?



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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I'm waiting for Bush to brought to trial. and actually takes responsiblity for his behaviour

He is a man in this very moment should fill his heart with guilt. And 650,000 lost souls to haunt him for the end of his days.


He has to be judged.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
What you, and most others here, do not realize, is the fact that the NATION of SA didn't attack us. It was some outcasts from Saudi Arabia.


By your wonderfull reasoning there, when did Iraq attack the US? Or any Iraqi for that matter? And don't go talking about during the hostile occupation thats been going on over the past few years, but in terms of going after the terrorists that attacked on 911.

[edit on 17/6/08 by thematrix]



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 


Your question is dumb thats why noone wants to "play along"

Offer proof and i might go along with it ..
But it seems the proof is only coming after the torture..

Also . Can you cite a few cases that we have stopped using torture?
That could help your cause too.. If such a case exists..


Hypothetically: If the earth is flat . Are the stars green?

Yes of course in a hypothetical world this could be the case.. But alas . This is the real world and we like facts..
Too bad nothing you have stated shows facts that this saved lives at all .

So in my hypothetical world .
You support torturing possibly innocent people . Well atleast enough torture to make them look guilty.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]



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