Gay Men, Straight Women Have Similar Brains

The study seems to indicate that the general structure of a homosexual's brain, in some ways mimics the structure of an opposite gendered heterosexual.

Whether this finding supports the supposition (like an assumption, but with none of the commitment!) that structure equates to function is, as yet unknown. There does seem to be some anectdotal evidence; however, anectdotes and stereotypes are often "kissin' cousins", and just as often likely to produce deformed offspring.

To infer that a gay male is somehow "defective" because the structure of his brain resembles that of a straight woman, is, as has been pointed out, to conclude that all women have defective brains.

This is not only wrong, it is ridiculous in the extreme. And misogynistic to a Talibani degree!


One might even posit that such thoughts are truly the product of a very defective mind.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
We also know from other studies that meditation can change how the brain functions physiologically.

So, the question remains: Is this difference inherent, or is it caused by their actions?

If you can show how meditation changes the brain physically and not just how the brain functions, I'd give you a little more credit.

We aren't talking about how the brain functions but how the brain is physically.

Meditate on that.

You know, when I post on here, I mean exactly what I say. (mistakes being excepted, of course.)

From www.news.wisc.edu...

The scans revealed that brain circuits used to detect emotions and feelings were dramatically changed in subjects who had extensive experience practicing compassion meditation.

Can I have that credit now?

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
...To infer that a gay male is somehow "defective" because the structure of his brain resembles that of a straight woman, is, as has been pointed out, to conclude that all women have defective brains.

This is not only wrong, it is ridiculous in the extreme. And misogynistic to a Talibani degree!


One might even posit that such thoughts are truly the product of a very defective mind.

Do words even mean anything anymore, or do you people just think you can make them mean anything you want them to mean?

www.merriam-webster.com... Definition of Defective:

1 a: imperfect in form or function : faulty b: falling below the norm in structure or in mental or physical function

A brain in a woman that is functioning like a woman's brain is perfectly normal. A brain in a man that is functioning like a woman's brain is DEFECTIVE BY DEFINITION.

Now, whether you want to say that is "cause for alarm" is another matter entirely.



[edit on 16-6-2008 by sir_chancealot]

[edit on 16-6-2008 by sir_chancealot]

reply to post by Buck Division
This is a brilliant post. To say homosexuality is abnormal may be missing the point. Perhaps it is a necessity for a healthy population. Makes perfect sense to me.

reply to post by sir_chancealot

You linked to a great study, Chancelot. It definitely shows to me that you can affect the state of your brain dramatically by strong and self-induced mental activity.

However, the study DOES NOT show that there are any permanent changes to the brain -- only temporary changes to brain activity:

Regulation of the Neural Circuitry of Emotion by Compassion Meditation

The long-term question is to evaluate whether repeated practice in such techniques could result in enduring changes in affective and social style. The fact that large and systematic changes in brain function were observed suggests that the next steps to evaluate the behavioral impact of this training and to longitudinally assess its effects are warranted.

So I will give you a lot of credit, Sir Chancelot, but it is not the final answer to the original question, that being whether you can change the physical nature of the brain strictly through meditiation.

Still -- it takes us part of the way there.

Edit: To go back to the OP, it doesn't prove that homosexuality could actually affect the brain if it was just a choice, since strong meditiation doesn't affect the brain either. Point goes to Griff right now, by my interpretation, although further research (as suggested in the study) might eventually prove otherwise.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by Buck Division]

Originally posted by Agent_Orange

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil

Originally posted by Agent_Orange
Hmm, so gay humans are defective after all and it is a disorder...

wonderful hate you got there, jerk

So pointing out genetic disorders / defects is now hate? Wow. I guess everything is hate these days.

So you argue that they aren't defective, and it's normal for males to have female brains?

Is someone having down syndrome or born with only 1 leg also normal to you, or would that be a defect?

What's next, women born with penises are also normal and it's not a genetic defect?



[edit on 16-6-2008 by Agent_Orange]

I gotta back up that other guy,
Wonderful more hate you've got there.
You're only seeing the bad and the hate in this.

reply to post by Quazga


Faulty conclusion. The brain is very plastic and will adapt to whatever situation it's given. If you decide to go gay the brain will adjust. That's the way I see it. In other words, you grow a gay brain by being gay.

While I don't deny that there may be some genetic component to homosexual tendencies, the same might be said for alcoholism. That doesn't make the behavior right. It just means that more effort is required to overcome a particular weakness in a particular area.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
You know, when I post on here, I mean exactly what I say. (mistakes being excepted, of course.)

From www.news.wisc.edu...

The scans revealed that brain circuits used to detect emotions and feelings were dramatically changed in subjects who had extensive experience practicing compassion meditation.

Can I have that credit now?

I'll give you credit about showing that meditation changes brain function, i.e. circuits used to detect emotions and feelings were dramitically changed.

But as far as the OP of lopsided gay female and straight man brains and symmetrical straight women and gay male brains, I'd say that this doesn't prove anything.

Or are you also saying that heterosexuals can become homosexual if they meditate long enough?

Because if you can change one way then you can also change the other.

reply to post by krestan


It's only hate if you care about it. A person having a gay brain for lack of a better term is uncmmon compared to the general populous and so technically it is abnormal in biological terms. However you're only a hater of gay people if you dislike them for being gay. Just pointing out it's abnormal in regards to it's development does not make you a hater.

SO... we can figure out if a man or woman is really gay or not by just looking at the shape of their brains?

reply to post by SevenThunders


And it's also known that the highly religious often have brain disorders called "mental disorders". Why do you think that the schizophrenic down the strret is usually out there preaching. I know a guy who used to be a street preacher. Until he started taking his medication that is. I mean this in no disrespect, but the same can be said about the brains of highly religious people. They make their brains abnormal.

The word Hyperreligiosity is related to "religiosity" which is the outward form of religion. People make a distinction between religiosity and spirituality, spirituality being the embodiment of virtue. Hyperreligiosity is when the outward forms and other aspects of religion become life disabling. There is a direct connection between hyperreligiosity and terrorism or destructive cults. Hyperreligiosity is the ill-fitting grasp of the role of religion and God in one's life. It is the disability that can lead to isolation from others because one thinks God is vengeful and punishing. Others who do not practice religion the same way are believed to be contaminating to the hyperreligious person, and this belief fights the drive to what are considered historic descriptions of authentic spirituality.

The author states that Mother Teresa and Albert Schweitzer were not hyperreligious, as hyperreligiosity can be understood by how it is a personal problem, not the actual dedication to the various beliefs of religion. Hyperreligiosity does not produce anything of personal or social value and in fact is often dangerous and destructive.

Psychologists developed the term hyperreligiosity yet there is no one agreed upon spelling of it. It can either be spelled as, "hyper-religiousity," "hyper-religiosity," "hyperreligiosity," or "hyperreligiousity," and each spelling is used by doctors, which can be found via doing a Google search.

Psychiatrists see hyperreligiosity in someone having psychotic episodes or epileptic fits in which they experience God. Politicians see hyperreligiosity in the way terrorists use religion to justify murder and other criminal acts. The author's view of hyperreligiosity contains these definitions but also sees it as any religious activity or thinking pattern that obscures the virtues of a healthy spiritual practice. It is also related to a type of obsessive mental illness in which a person can not use their thinking faculties in the manner and extent in which they were educated towards using them.

www.eskimo.com...

But, I'm sure I'll hear the devil wrote that.

Originally posted by die_another_day
SO... we can figure out if a man or woman is really gay or not by just looking at the shape of their brains?

Whilst this research is very interesting i'm willing to bet it's only a small part of a bigger picture. I'm sure there will be people who have heteroseual looking brains on a scan but are completely homosexual in their actions.

This also brings up an interesting question, what about bisexuals?

Originally posted by Agent_Orange
Hmm, so gay humans are defective after all and it is a disorder...

First. Gay Men are Defective - by this statement, since the topic is the comparison of the Female Brain to a Gay Man's Brain - am I to infer, that you believe Females are defective?

Second. A Disorder is defined as:

dis·or·der (ds-ôrdr)

1. A lack of order or regular arrangement; confusion.
2. A breach of civic order or peace; a public disturbance.
3. An ailment that affects the function of mind or body: eating disorders and substance abuse.
tr.v. dis·or·dered, dis·or·der·ing, dis·or·ders
1. To throw into confusion or disarray.
2. To disturb the normal physical or mental health of; derange.

Noun
1. a state of untidiness and disorganization
2. public violence or rioting
3. an illness

Source: www.thefreedictionary.com...

On this list (in the link above), is a list of "disorders" I don't see Homosexuality anywhere on it. Perhaps that is because the Scientists, and the Psychologists, and the people with the Degrees, who assign the term "disorder" to conditions, don't agree with your statement. Perhaps they're just not as englightened as you - this could be the case as well.

- Carrot


[edit on 6/16/2008 by CA_Orot]

Originally posted by Griff
Or are you also saying that heterosexuals can become homosexual if they meditate long enough?

Because if you can change one way then you can also change the other.

Damn good point sir. That stuff DOES NOT work. I've meditated many an hour trying to become gay to no avail. It would be so easy to get laid if I liked man junk. I'd have to change my name to Roman War Helmet.


I'm going to go out on a WILD limb here. Everyone that has some sort of issue with the ghays is religious in some way, and most likely Christian. If you've said anything like...

"Being gay is a choice"
"It can't be genetic"
"It isn't normal"
"It's a defect"
"etc"

I'll bet that you're either Christian, or maybe Muslim. Imagine that? Christians and Muslims can come together to hate on gays.

It's an agenda. You cannot accept any evidence that might contradict the cherry picked "acceptable" things that your chosen holy book has said. You know, considering most holy books contain a whole bunch of crap that is otherwise ignored. Anyhow, I digress.

Here is a piece of evidence that strongly reinforces the fact that being gay isn't a choice (which every mo I know has been saying for years), and now we see cries of, "yeah, well, it's a defect," and we also see a few, "yeah but it's still a choice."

At least be honest about this up front. Start every nonsensical thing you're going to say about gays with, "well, the bible says..." and then everyone else just knows to ignore what you have to say.


I honestly don't know how there aren't more gay nutcases blowing up churches.

Originally posted by dbates
Impossible. If someone was actually homosexual (same sex) they would have no offspring. There are no children from same-sex unions.

Senator Craig has kids, doesn't he?

All this stuffing of people into the boxes what with the bows and ribbons... it's so cliche.

For the record, my feminine side is a lesbian.

You people act as if the shape of the brain determines the personality. What if it's vice versa? That the mind, the personality determine how the brain grows?

Humans are able to change the shape of their brain by changing their habits, thinking patterns and mental training (reading, concentration and focus) etc...

We should stop thinking that we don't have any choice in how we are, our personality traits, habits and desires, and sexual orientation.

I believe that with the right mental training and core belief alteration any straight man can become gay and any gay man can become straight. Same with women. Mind over matter. Perez Hilton can become as manly and straight as Clint Eastwood with the right mental training and belief change.

What do you know? You can use the evidence to argue both sides of the coin. So let's drop it.

Originally posted by Sunsetspawn
Damn good point sir. That stuff DOES NOT work. I've meditated many an hour trying to become gay to no avail. It would be so easy to get laid if I liked man junk. I'd have to change my name to Roman War Helmet.

I know you are joking but I was raised in a very religious household. I did pray and meditate for God to change me...a lot...more than I care to discuss. Guess what? I still like "man junk".

I honestly don't know how there aren't more gay nutcases blowing up churches.

Personally, I believe that gay people are above this because we know that hate just breeds more hate. And we want to just live our lives without fear, so we respect Christians to be able to live theirs in kind.

[edit on 6/16/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by TheBandit795
I believe that with the right mental training and core belief alteration any straight man can become gay

Why don't you try your theory out and tell us how it worked? As I said, I DID try it and it doesn't work.

But, maybe that's why I'm not a nelley queen and actually a masculine gay man? Who knows? All I know is it isn't as easy as you would have us believe.