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Brazil issues 120-aircraft request to five fighter manufacturers

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posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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www.flightglobal.com...


Brazil has revived its delayed search for a next-generation multirole combat aircraft, and in early June issued requests for information to five bidders for its new F-X2 contest. Its initial requirement is for a batch of 36 fighters, although the total programme is for 120 aircraft to be delivered from 2014 until post-2020.


this was put in hold a fewyears ago due to financial issues but is now back on track - with the usual uspects in the line up:


Bidders for the new contest have been restricted to the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen NG (Next Generation) and the Sukhoi Su-35. The selected type will replace some of the Brazilian air force's Alenia/Embraer AMX ground-attack aircraft and its upgraded Northrop F-5 fighters, plus a recently acquired batch of ex-French air force Dassault Mirage 2000s


again budget is the issue - and comparison to the aircraft being replaced (The swiss airforce are also wanting to replace the F5`s with gripen) i really put Gripen as the winner here ; the others simply are too much money for the aircraft wanted.




posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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Rafale will win.
Language they used are similar



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by emile
Rafale will win.
Language they used are similar


? Brazilians speak Portugese. The French speak (er) French. They don't use a similar language.

Cheers



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Which is the cheapest out of those?

Gripen? Su-35?



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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SU 35 would be the best choice. Long range and all. You just need long legs when defending such a large country.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:07 AM
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The gripen is the cheapest by a margin , followed by the rest likely SU-35 , then the hornet and finally the rafale and most expensive the typhoon



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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Iff they have the money, they should buy the SU-35.

Second best fighter in the world with nice ranges that are ideal for such a large country.

But if the amount off money is small, then yes they should buy the Gripen but iff i where them i would squeeze out some more to buy the far superiour 35.

We will see



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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look at the aircraft they want to replace - they are all small type aircraft , F5`s , AMX`s and mirage 200 - which is the biggest of the 3.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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The cost to buy is only one part of the equation. I wonder what the cost to maintain would be and what the cost of the munitions is, as both these aspects would be important in the selection.

From a maintenance perspective, I think Gripen ould be less of a burden (single engine etc) than say the Su-35. Weapons fit? Who knows!

Also, I wonder which deal would provide Brazil with the the prize - perhaps a production line etc... The quanity of aircraft required may warrent such a deal?

Regards



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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Looking at the dates, I suspect that the order will be for the Su-35BM series rather than the legacy Super Flanker. With that in mind, I have to say I think that the Super Hornet will actually be the cheapest followed by Rafale, IIRC. Then it'll be the Gripen (surprisingly expensive for such a small platform), likely the Su-35, then Eurofighter Typhoon.

Looking at what is being replaced, however, I'm gonna bet that the order will actually favour the Rafale/Gripen, being the light selection here. Su-35 is a monster, and Super Hornet is still a medium-heavy aircraft. The Typhoon is a good choice, but with easily the highest price tag and the longest order line.

This one could be a very interesting offset to the Indian MMRCA.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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I don't think any of the players outside of possibly Russia are going to agree to licensed building in Brazil as demanded by the request for information.
I call the outside chance they buy used F-16A airframes from Israel who offers to refurbish the airframes while fitting their own avionics systems. Similar to the 150M dollar deal the Israelis offered Romania.
They keep the Mirages and the F-16's for the interim saving money to put towards the PAK-FA project that they are already partners on.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by Darkpr0
 


The recent AUS purchase of the SH has shown its very very expensive - at $!00 million EACH.

www.defenseindustrydaily.com...

$2.36 billion divide by 24 gives a figure a hair under 100 million



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by Darkpr0
 


The recent AUS purchase of the SH has shown its very very expensive - at $!00 million EACH.

www.defenseindustrydaily.com...

$2.36 billion divide by 24 gives a figure a hair under 100 million


That sounds preposterous!!
What are the caveats?
ATS Oz? anyone?

EDIT:
As for the Brazilians, would they wait and watch what candy is offered and weaned in the IAF MMRCA drama? You know: AESA, manufacturing offsets, tech transfers etc.

The requirement is numerically the same, the geographical span is the same.
The only great differences are in the existing force capabilities in Brazil and the the regional force capability, which ironically then nullify each other.

Also, I wonder why they want to scrap the Mirage 2000s. Those can be kept till 2020 at least I would think.


[edit on 18-6-2008 by Daedalus3]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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We can't forget maintenance costs. Maybe the Russian parts are cheaper, so the TCO of the SU would be less than the Gripen over a longer period of time even if the Gripen was initially cheaper.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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The whole problem with russian aircraft now is one of image - the recent MiG-29 debacle when they were thrown back at RSK and told to keep em hasn`t done the brand much good.

and i do think , given SAAB`s offset history , and the new Gripen NG with AESA , it has a strong sales point.

F16`s have to be dirt cheap to offset what saab can offer - and i mean like $20mil each delivered.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
F16`s have to be dirt cheap to offset what saab can offer - and i mean like $20mil each delivered.


The offer to Romania was rumoured to be about $10M an airframe or less. I'm not sure if that price would include various avionics upgrades or just the F-16A/B airframes.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by _Del_]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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for that money it would be `boneyard specials` and retired F16A`s



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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The current avionics fit would be equal to the C's, but they are the old F-16A's the Israeli's are looking to move. I suspect Israel is happy to unload them and make some money as they already have replaced them. Updating the avionics would be a nice gift to their local industry as well.
It'd be a band-aid for Brazil, but along with the Mirages might serve as a functional force until the PAK-FA is available. At a much cheaper cost than any of the alternatives.
I still don't see any of the players they petitioned being willing to offer the licensed production of airframes and engines like they requested. Possibly Russia.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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sweden can offer 100%+ offset - which brazil might take tbh



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 06:19 PM
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I'll be interested in the replies to the RFI entail. Even with the offsets is it worth it to buy a substantial number of Gripen when you're already a committed partner to PAK-FA which I assume they'd like to purchase a number of. The unit cost of the Gripen matches that of the predicted cost of the PAK-FA (which we know will rise, and yet..) I think with a large quantity buy of a new build fighter you are limiting the future acquisition of the more capable PAK-FA. Just my tuppence.
Any of the contenders would be a nice choice for an interim type. I just don't think most are going to hand over production rights to airframes, engines, and avionics (the last of which I just noticed when I reread the piece).




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