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Fluoride is Natural in Water

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posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


If you are getting paid to post this nonsense - it appears you post during Business hours - you will one day find yourself Being charged with various violations of the Constitution. Of that, I have no doubt.

So why have you made it your mission to purvey and disseminate this disinformation to the masses?

Perhaps this is your mission?

In any case, You have Failed in your objective completely; so at least we can all agree on that point ...




posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by doctormcauley
reply to post by TheComte
 


If you are getting paid to post this nonsense - it appears you post during Business hours - you will one day find yourself Being charged with various violations of the Constitution. Of that, I have no doubt.

So why have you made it your mission to purvey and disseminate this disinformation to the masses?

Perhaps this is your mission?

In any case, You have Failed in your objective completely; so at least we can all agree on that point ...


LOL Now this is priceless. Threatening me with charges? Come on. This nonsense comes from your own government (if you live in USA).
You obviously haven't read all the posts because I certainly have posted outside of 'business hours', at least where I live. You probably think you're so smart. Don't be an idiot.
I wish I was getting paid, but I guess the entertainment value will have to suffice. Thanks for keeping the thread going, doctor.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by TheComte]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by TheComte

Originally posted by doctormcauley
reply to post by TheComte
 





This nonsense comes from your own government (if you live in USA).


[edit on 18-6-2008 by TheComte]


Finally the truth comes out.

The OP just admitted he doesn't even believe his own lies.

Thank you for slipping up, we all knew you would eventually



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by doctormcauley
 


Well, good work, doctor. Well played, sir. You did it. It was all you. Your poignant observations has cracked the case. LOL

If you wish to join in the debate, feel free to do so. I look forward to refuting all your claims.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by TheComte]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


Why even bother arguing with someone who doesn't believe what they are saying?

You just admitted that you don't believe the lies you are peddling, why should anyone waste anymore time on you?

I am reporting you to the mods and site administration.

You have just wasted everyone's time for your own amusement.

Congratulations, You managed to perpetrate a HOAX of an entire worldview...



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by TheComte
 

OMG
Well, I can see that your Nick was not supposed to be 'contempLATER' - WTF is that?? I'll tell you WTF it is; It's just an interesting article on Ben Frank. - What would be credible on your part would be to show a little more intelligence & a little less ignoance if you would indicate an understanding that the government itself is not credible, nor can be trusted, & worse things than fluoride are going on, & if you would understand what the government is REALLY there for, & what their agenda REALLY is, (no the NWO is not a theory either, you rat, disinfo agent) you would show a little credibility yourself. - As for you supplying credible info?; That's a joke right? If it wasn't intended to be a joke, I'll have you know, it is, no matter what you try to say: Just search Google yourself; fluorideinfo.com or something is the ONLY (government sponsored) site that says good things about Fluoride.
I spent a few hours past the time I was supposed to go to sleep to review this thread in order to respond to it correctly, & I was surprised to see such an IGNORANT response! - I take it back that I said I wont be mean. -You're gonna get what you deserve:

If you think your 'info' is credible, we have an indication of the effects 50 years of fluoridation, LOL! -What, because it's from Government 'officials'?
I made a site that has NO advertizing, & you'll see that most sites (ATS even reloads their adds, so while you are wasting your time SUPPORTING IGNORANCE, you are making ATS money. - Almost every site has ads; Its to deal with a little something called bandwidth. - When there is a BIG interest in a subject because it is IMPORTANT & needs to be adressed, not laughed at like you are doing, these sites get traffic, which costs money. If there's a tinfoil hat lying around, you need to shove it, because it will do well with the TONS of Fluoride that has accumulated in your bones & (aparently small) 'brain'. -And I sincerely doubt you are 50 years old. - You would've seen the evidence by now, unless you are living under a rock, which seems like that may be the case. - (or you simply wont even click a link because you are so COCKSURE & opinionated in your stance. - So go: DRINK AS MUCH TAP WATER AS YOU CAN! - You ridicule those that try to warn you; so you deserve what's coming to you.

First of all: - www.fluoridealert.org... is not credible? 'You're a MORON' is an understatement. You need to wake up KID! (You can't be 50)... really... What have you spent your life doing? You're certainly not soaking up information; you're soacking up additives, LOL! HA HA HA! And it REALLY Shows man.

I'll add this again:Scientists, Doctors & Researchers Warn of Fluoridated Water DangersScientists, Doctors & Researchers Warn of Fluoridated Water Dangers

If there are more studies to be done, it's by YOU, & other ignorant people.

Here is pasted some info from the link you wont even check:

Since April 7. 1997 the FDA has had toothpaste containing Fluoride and Sodium Laurel Sulfate include the warning 'Keep out of the reach of children under six. If more than a pea size amount is swallowed contact your poison control center immediately.'�?HELLO!
Unfortunately some manufacturers put it on the box that you throw away before using.

Here is some documentation on the adverse effects of FLUORIDE

1. Fluoride exposure disrupts the synthesis of collagen and leads to the breakdown of collagen in bone, tendon, muscle, skins, cartilage, lungs, kidney and trachea.
A.K. Susheela and Mohan Jha, �Effects of Fluoride on Cortical and Cancerous Bone Composition,� IRCS Medical Sciences: Library Compendium, Vol. 9, No.11, pp. 1021-1022 (1981); Y. D. Sharma, �Effect of Sodium Fluoride on Collagen Cross-Link Precursors,� Toxicological Letters, Vol. 10, pp. 97-100 (1982); A. K. Susheela and D. Mukerjee,....



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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In a small defense of the OP:

I don't think TheComte is claiming to say that Fluoride isn't harmful at all. I think what he is getting at is that the amounts that everyone has consumed for so long really haven't caused any visible harm and that it's no big deal to him.

He also admits that the levels may be too high, and that there should be better regulation, and even more testing.


On the other hand:

Only believing government claims and disregarding independent claims is a very naive move. To believe that our government always has our best interest in mind (especially an extremely expensive project to prevent tooth decay) is to have an infantile trust in someone who has the extreme potential to manipulate, distort, or brainwash...and through history and facts has been shown to do just that.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Time=Now
 


Nice rant. Doesn't prove anything though. Even the AMA has said right in your link more studies are needed. Come on, you can do better than that.

As for causing cancer, I've already posted links to scientific studies done in 1991 that conclude there is no cancer risk. I know you ignored it. Also, you ignore the CDC link that states that scientific findings do not bear out the claim that sodium fluoride is different than natural fluoride. You ignore everything that refutes your claims. It's ok, you have the right to do that.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Azurus
 


Thank you. This is obviously a polarizing issue and many people jump in attacking without reading the whole thread. I agree that gov't can't be wholly trusted at all times but I have to trust my own observations from my own community and surrounding communities. Never, not one single case of fluoride poisoning has occurred that I am aware of or has been reported. Of course, not including those accidents that were posted earlier. Tragic, yes, but obviously way above the max safe level.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by TheComte]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by Azurus
 


You're TOO kind! - But have a point, but looking at how he talks to us (About tinfoil hats, etc), he deserves no mercy. The thing is; He is unaware of the SLOW adverse effects, because he hasn't noticed the effects yet. - Ontario is VERY fluoridated, & we can see what effect that is having on the mind, can't we? BTW; I'm into the psy-scene too ;-) I made music. What program did your friend use? Also, to everyone: There IS a lot of evidence inicating the adverse effects of Fluoride on the human body, so please if possible, I'm asking everyone from refraining from posting so that my post: www.abovetopsecret.com... does not get run off into another previous page, going unnoticed. - This troll must reply with understanding, (despite my anger) or be deemed to have NO credibility by anyone on ATS, because the link about the warning from DOCTORS & SCIENTISTS I provided PROVES him wrong.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by Time=Now
 


Listen, the fact that you right away start attacking me and calling me names shows that it is you that has no credibility. Everyone knows that the attacks begin when there is nothing else to fall back on.

And I only used tinfoil hats when I was attacked first. If people take a condescending tone with me I'm going to do so as well. I don't want to fight with you. I want to debate you.

And, I'm sorry if you don't believe me when I say this, but your post doesn't prove anything. More studies are needed. I concede that. However, no one has yet provided a single case in which someone was harmed in any way by ingesting the recommended safe levels of fluoride in water. What does that tell you?

Believe what you want, buddy. Don't get all angry if someone doesn't agree with you. Damn.

I wonder what's going to happen when I get reported to the mods.


[edit on 18-6-2008 by TheComte]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by Time=Now
 


Nice rant. Doesn't prove anything though. Even the AMA has said right in your link more studies are needed. Come on, you can do better than that.

As for causing cancer, I've already posted links to scientific studies done in 1991 that conclude there is no cancer risk. I know you ignored it. Also, you ignore the CDC link that states that scientific findings do not bear out the claim that sodium fluoride is different than natural fluoride. You ignore everything that refutes your claims. It's ok, you have the right to do that.


I would trust Scientists & Doctors before any government sponsored 'study'. I DID do better than that, & will do even better; YOU ARE NOW CAUGHT RED-HANDED! - YOU SAID 'THERE ARE NO ADVERSE EFFECTS THAT I AM AWARE OF' - WELL, It's time to be aware: - But first, there is no such thing as 'natural fluoride' - It is present in ground water because the drinking water gets mixed all over the planet due to a little thing called evaporation & rain. I don't ignore anything, except you from now on.

here's(part of)SCIENTIFIC PROOF, BUD:


Effect of Sodium Fluoride With and Without Simultaneous Exposure to Hydrogen Fluoride on Collagen Metabolism,� Journal of Toxicological Medicine, Vol. 4, pp. 151-157 (1984).

2. Fluoride stimulates granule formation and oxygen consumption in white blood cells, but inhibits these processes when the white blood cell is challenged by a foreign agent in the blood.

Robert A. Clark, �Neutrophil Iodination Reaction Induced by Fluoride: Implications for Degranulation and Metabolic Activation,� Blood, Vol. 57, pp. 913-921 (1981).

3. Fluoride depletes the energy reserves and the ability of white blood cells to properly destroy foreign agents by the process of phagocytosis. As little as 0.2 ppm fluoride stimulates

superperoxide production in resting white blood cells, virtually abolishing phagocytosis. Even micro-molar amounts of fluoride, below 1 ppm, may seriously depress the ability of white blood cells to destroy pathogenic agents.

John Curnette, et al, �Fluoride-mediated Activation of the Respiratory Burst in Human Neutrophils,� Journal of Clinical Investigation, Vol. 63, pp. 637-647 (1979); W. L. Gabler and P. A. Leong, ., �Fluoride Inhibition of Polymorphonumclear Leukocytes,� Journal of Dental Research, Vol. 48, No. 9, pp. 1933-1939 (1979); W. L. Gabler, et al., �Effect of Fluoride on the Kinetics of Superoxide Generation by Fluoride,� Journal of Dental Research, Vol. 64, p. 281 (1985); A. S. Kozlyuk, et al., �Immune Status of Children in Chemically Contaminated Environments,� Zdravookhranenie, Issue 3, pp. 6-9 (1987)

4. Fluoride confuses the immune system and causes it to attack the body�s own tissues, and increases the tumor growth rate in cancer prone individuals.

Alfred Taylor and Nell C. Taylor, �Effect of Sodium Fluoride on Tumor Growth,� Proceedings of the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine, Vol. 119, p. 252 (1965); Sheila Gibson, �Effects of Fluoride on Immune System Function,� Complementary Medical Research, Vol. 6, pp. 111-113 (1992); Peter Wilkinson, �Inhibition of the Immune System With Low Levels of Fluorides,� Testimony before the Scottish High Court in Edinburgh in the Case of McColl vs.

Strathclyde Regional Council, pp. 17723-18150, 19328-19492, and Exhibit 636, (1982); D. W. Allman and M. Benac, �Effect of Inorganic Fluoride Salts on Urine and Cyclic AMP Concentration in Vivo,� Journal of Dental Research, Vol. 55 (Supplement B), p. 523 (1976); S. Jaouni and D. W. Allman, �Effect of Sodium Fluoride and Aluminum on Adenylate Cyclase and Phosphodiesterase Activity,� Journal of Dental Research, Vol. 64, p. 201 (1985)

5. Fluoride inhibits antibody formation in the blood.

S. K. Jain and A. K. Susheela, �Effect of Sodium Fluoride on Antibody Formation in Rabbits,� Envi



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


Attack? It's defence. - And mainly annoyance with ignorance. - If you noticied, I initially said I was not going to be mean, like some people have said ' Go drink your fluoride' (love it when Alex Jones says that though, LOL)

-And the effects of fluoride are slow. - But eventually lead to premature death. - Like what will hopefully happen to this thread. - The 'debate' is over, because I HAVE proven you completely wrong in your assumptions.
I never intended to feel negativity with you, but looking at how you are with other members too, it's only a NATURAL feeling.

Have a nice (fluoridated) day! :-)



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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3. Fluoride depletes the energy reserves and the ability of white blood cells to properly destroy foreign agents by the process of phagocytosis. As little as 0.2 ppm fluoride stimulates


Is this .2 ppm in the bloodstream, or .2 ppm water that is ingested?

This would be crucial to know.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by Time=Now
 


There is no such thing as natural fluoride? Who's not being credible here?

Here you go, from a doctor and scientists:

www.quackwatch.com...


Fluoride is a mineral that occurs naturally in most water supplies. Fluoridation is the adjustment of the natural fluoride concentration to about one part of fluoride to one million parts of water. Although fluoridation is safe and effective in preventing tooth decay, the scare tactics of misguided poisonmongers have deprived many communities of its benefits.


And again, from doctors:

www.oregondental.org...


A national panel of scientists reported Wednesday that high levels of naturally occurring fluoride in drinking water are leaving children in some communities at risk of tooth enamel damage and adults prone to weakened bones that could lead to fractures.

The scientists unanimously recommended that the federal limit on fluoride in drinking water be lowered to protect people in communities where high levels leach into the water from natural sources, such as rocks or soil.

Many cities, including Los Angeles and many California communities, that have low levels of naturally occurring fluoride add it to water to protect against tooth decay, but they are unaffected by the new findings because the concentrations of added fluoride are much lower than the federal standard.


Here is where I concede that EPA levels may be too high. The generally recommended safe level is 1mg/L.


At the request of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, a panel of the National Academy of Sciences examined the EPA's standard, which allows 4 parts per million of fluoride in drinking water supplies.


The whole point of this thread was to say that there is some level of fluoride in almost all water. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Fluoridation programs adjust the level to 1mg/L generally, because studies show that communities with that level of naturally occurring fluoride have less tooth decay. Sometimes they have to filter out fluoride because it's too much.

So, tell me again how there's no such thing as natural fluoride.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Time=Now
I would trust Scientists & Doctors before any government sponsored 'study'.


Who do you think does government sponsored studies?


-And the effects of fluoride are slow. - But eventually lead to premature death. -


Not proven. What is not absorbed by bones and teeth is flushed out of the body within 24 hours. I posted a link several pages back.


The 'debate' is over, because I HAVE proven you completely wrong in your assumptions.


If you say so, it must be right. Just like there's no such thing as natural fluoride.


I never intended to feel negativity with you, but looking at how you are with other members too, it's only a NATURAL feeling.


As I said, I treat others as they treat me. Civility will be met with civility, insults with insults.



[edit on 18-6-2008 by TheComte]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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mmmmm, industrial grade. i can taste the lead, this is quality stuff! i just bit into a chunk of asbestos-y goodness, so fluffy.

seriously, industrial grade flouride in our water? no thank you, that is just INSANE.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by TheComte
 



A few things I question:

The quackwatch report does seem a little reasonable, but it seems a little biased and slightly dismissive also and doesn't attempt to rule out any of the questions that some of us have, it only tries to discredit the "anti's" by describing their tactics.

Statements like:



Calling fluoride a "chemical" (rather than a nutrient) can strike fear in the minds of many Americans who fear we are already too "chemicalized."


Obviously calling it a nutrient would be deceptive at the same time. It is definitely NOT a nutrient. Is he advocating calling it one? He almost disproves his own point by saying that most Americans all do feel like we are exposed to too many chemicals against our will. We, we pretty much are these days, so it's a good case to question Fluoride as well when it is put into our water regardless of how we feel about it, or what the unstudied long-term effects may bring mentally.




The fact that there is no supporting evidence for such claims...


This is a tactic to shield the possibility of any such claims. When you try to disprove someone's claim by stating that there is no supporting evidence just because no one has looked closely enough, it really doesn't provide much to appease the "anti's". If they are so sure it is completely safe, why don't they prove the "anti's" wrong WITH supporting evidence. It seems like it would be the most logical choice.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Azurus]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Time=Now
YOU ARE NOW CAUGHT RED-HANDED! - YOU SAID 'THERE ARE NO ADVERSE EFFECTS THAT I AM AWARE OF' - WELL, It's time to be aware:


Wait a minute. Where did I say that? My exact words were "not one single case of fluoride poisoning has occurred that I am aware of..." How do you get that so mixed up? Talk about misquoting.


-It is present in ground water because the drinking water gets mixed all over the planet due to a little thing called evaporation & rain. I don't ignore anything, except you from now on.


Is that so? Well, you better tell the previous poster who was all proud that he only drinks rainwater that there is fluoride in his water too. I didn't want to, it's better if it comes from you.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by Azurus
 


I have to agree with your assessment of the report. And again we can go back and forth all day posting our websites and studies. There is no reason to believe any one of them. However, from my observations of the people in my community and surrounding communities which are fluoridated, I have to ask where are the victims? I have to continue to disbelieve the 'poisonmongers' because I don't see the effects they are saying should happen.



[edit on 18-6-2008 by TheComte]




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