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What a former National Guardsman has to say about Bush

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posted on Mar, 4 2004 @ 09:35 PM
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I read this paper off and on as I do others. Buffalo has been hard hit by the Bush economic policies. He won't win in Buffalo!

Bush received special treatment...

I am a former National Guardsman who served from 1969 to 1975 as a combat engineer at the Main Street Armory in Niagara Falls. Having read of George W. Bush's special treatment in the Texas Air Guard, I was compelled to write this letter.
In November 1969, a month before my college graduation, I was ordered to attend basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Mo. I requested a three-week reprieve so that I could graduate. My request was denied, so I duly reported to Company C, Second Battalion, Third Brigade just before Thanksgiving. One week before flying out, I took three "incompletes" and dropped two other courses that required sitting exams in December.

Later on in my six-year hitch, I asked for permission to arrive one day late to summer camp in order to attend my twin sister's wedding. I was denied again. That was it, plain and simple. I was treated fairly, dispassionately and in consonance with standard operating procedure for the U.S. Army of those Vietnam War days. Now comes word that Bush, having "worked it out with the military," received inactive duty six months before the end of his six-year commitment in order to attend Harvard Business School.

I would wager there is not one Guardsman or Reservist in this area who was ever let out of duty six months early to attend school, nor is there one who, having missed meetings over an extended period of time, was discharged honorably instead of disciplined.

Contrast Bush's military record with that of Sen. John F. Kerry, who in Vietnam earned three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star for valor. Can there be any doubt whom I will support in the presidential election this November?

JOHN CALLERI
Derby

www.buffalonews.com...




posted on Mar, 4 2004 @ 09:45 PM
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Everyones situation is different, this guy is obviously a Bush hater and it goes to show you...anyone with an opinion has the right to express it.



posted on Mar, 4 2004 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by Dreamz
Everyones situation is different, this guy is obviously a Bush hater and it goes to show you...anyone with an opinion has the right to express it.


I don't personally hate Bush, but I think that if you are going to send people to fight and die, its not a good idea to have done what he did. Kerry, on the other hand, did his duty and was decorated for valour.



posted on Mar, 4 2004 @ 10:00 PM
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The thing that makes me so mad about the issue is that they will hate on Bush yet defend Clinton and any other Democrat who dodged the war.....Its not that I agree with Bush's military past, its just the one-sidedness of the issue.



posted on Mar, 4 2004 @ 10:13 PM
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I certainly don't want anyone to infer that I think Bush should be let off the hook, but this is a secondary issue at best.

The account the Guardsman relayed was comparing apples to oranges. He was obviously a lower enlisted man assigned to an Army MOS that has always suffered a shortage of personnel.

I know personally three lower officers, whom I served with in Combat Arms MOS, that were released early from ACTIVE duty. One to begin a Master's Program at Kent State, and the other two because they had job offers in the private sector. It happens all the time. Rank has it's priveleges.

Besides that, enlisted personnel at all levels have the option of a college drop cutting up to 6 months off their contracted commitment, as long as they have a letter of acceptance from the school.

The Guardsman's statement proves nothing, and does not implicate the President in any wrong-doing. It only relates his opinion. Look, the national guard is a different world. I held an administrative position in a Utah NG unit, and people of all ranks would fail to report all the time. There were no reprimands, no consequenses... and we were an Apache Attack Wing! (211th AVN Bn. (Attack)).

Oh, and by the way, I'm glad G.W. failed to perform. As his unit was charged with the responsiblity of securing the U.S. mainland, not combat, I wouldn't trust him flying over Texas (or any other state for that matter) in an armed fighter jet.

"NO not me and KG, we don't have the cognitive capacity to lead. All right, we'll do it! We'll lead as two Kings!" -JB

DeltaChaos Out



posted on Mar, 4 2004 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Pisky
I don't personally hate Bush, but I think that if you are going to send people to fight and die, its not a good idea to have done what he did. Kerry, on the other hand, did his duty and was decorated for valour.


And then went and demoralized his fellow troops, consorted with Jane Fonda, and then didn't even have the balls to throw his own medals on the Whitehouse lawn (he kept his, he threw someone elses).



posted on Mar, 4 2004 @ 10:36 PM
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Here's a letter from a retired Army Colonel to Mr. Kerry:
"Dear Mr. Kerry"
www.townhall.com...

Excerpt:

"....I know dozens of retired military professionals. None of them support you - there is a reason for that. They all served honorably and well, and they all believe that you did not. I know war heroes, and your, sir, are no war hero."



regards
seekerof



posted on Mar, 6 2004 @ 11:48 AM
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Interesting that Kerry's "glorious" time in Vietnam, less than 1/2 year, would be mentioned:

Don,

I sure as hell hope that you don't end up with this guy as YOUR commander in chief?

Bill

I know nothing about "Swift Boat" tactics so I can't judge the veracity of this letter. Maybe a more knowledgeable classmate can shine some
light on this. It was forwarded to me by a high school classmate, USNA grad ('59) and Rear Admiral (Ret.) Walt Plaue.


----- Original Message -----
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 6:17 PM
Subject: John Kerry...You decide

Sent to me by an old shipmate....

I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.


(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.

(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachsetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets
Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.


I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated. And fishy.


Keep smiling,
Mike



posted on Mar, 6 2004 @ 12:14 PM
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Thomas Crowne comes with the FACTS...

Reading this account of Kerry's "war record" in Nam instantly points out a "career path" to Capitol Hill was all it was about.

The connection to JFK's record is hard to miss, problem is, as pointed out in the article, war heroes didn't sell in 1970 Mass. like they did in 1950 Mass.

To think this guy racked up that many medals in 8 months is ludicrous UNLESS you have a very well connected and wealthy family back home pulling a few strings for you.

It was a solid plan based on JFK's success in the same state, they just didn't figure on the youth revolution that happened in the late sixties/early seventies.

My complaint is the guy seems to have voted on or at the least made statements on BOTH SIDES of every issue. This started with his return from Nam when "re-invented himself as a anti-war type.

It's hard for me to swallow a guy who was TRULY a "war hero" all of a sudden hating the military for no apparent reason. Kerry had a reason, he wanted to get elected to Congress.

Motives and money. When the subject already has money follow the motives. When there is lots of money at stake follow the money.

PEACE...
m...



posted on Mar, 6 2004 @ 12:25 PM
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One might think energy-wave asked for comments on John Kerry, not the letter about Bush.


But I suppose this is par for the course on both sides in a political season.



posted on Mar, 7 2004 @ 05:54 AM
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"Contrast Bush's military record with that of Sen. John F. Kerry, who in Vietnam earned three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star for valor. Can there be any doubt whom I will support in the presidential election this November?"

Please note the above paragraph in EnergyWave's post, Rant, and then you'll see why you should be more atterntive before you pound your paws on the keyboard!



posted on Mar, 7 2004 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Please note the above paragraph in EnergyWave's post, Rant, and then you'll see why you should be more atterntive before you pound your paws on the keyboard!


They're actually flailing giant hooks, not paws, and my poor laptop can barely stand it anymore. But good observation on both counts.



posted on Mar, 7 2004 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne



(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.




Let me tell you how mad this makes me, and why.

When I was five years old I came home from kindergarten in the afternoon and right in the front entrance hall of our home my father knelt down to where he was at eye level with me and told me my big brother's helicopter had crashed in Viet Nam and they didn't know if he was alive or not.

I remember running into my room and laying face down on my bed and crying like no five year old should ever have to cry.

My father had received the telegram which basically said "Your sons helicopter has gone down. It is not known at this time whether he has survived or not." early that morning. My mother had been out of town most of the day. My father, not knowing whether his son was dead or not, had kept that information to himself all day until my mother returned home.

My brother survived. In fact, of the six people on board the helicopter, my brother was the only to survive, but not before rescueing his best friend, the pilot, who later died from the burns.

My brother was burned over approximately 60% of his body. He suffered double pneumonia, double kidney failure and his entire body turned toxic to itself. When we first arrived at Brooks burn center in San Antonio (my father quit his job and we moved there for the extent of my brother's stay) my parents were told IF he lived (you add it up 60% of body burned + 18 years of age comes to 78% chance of NOT living) he would be there at least six months. He was released 2 months later.

My brother is my real-life living hero. He went on to serve almost 25 years in law enforcement. He actually tried to go back into the army just prior to his 35th birthday but they would not take him because of his burns...reason, he would scare the new recruits.

To this day my brother does not have a purple heart...official reason, because he was not on a "combat mission" at the time the chopper went down.

Reason my brother gives? Because there wasn't any brass around to get a photo op.

Kerry could kiss my ass in the moonlight if I'd let him get that close...

but I won't.

[Edited on 7-3-2004 by Valhall]



posted on Mar, 7 2004 @ 06:28 AM
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Valhall, that's a heart rending story and it's certainly understandable why you'd be suspect of anyone "lucky" enough to get three purple hearts and seem no worse for the wear...but it also makes me wonder how your brother's (and family's) sacrifice affects your perception of Bush's National Guard record?

I'm coming from the angle of course that Bush did not come close to putting himself on the line like your brother. Perhaps neither Bush or Kerry need to parade and prance around like war heros...IMO.



posted on Mar, 7 2004 @ 06:35 AM
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Rant,

You are absolutely correct. Both of them need to shut the hell up about Viet Nam. I might point out though, that Kerry is the one singing this song loudest while at the same time a virtual "Jane Fonda" of the Viet Nam war. This guy has so many faces he could play the mayor of Halloween Town if they ever do a play of the Nightmare Before Christmas.

I'll surprise you though with this. It makes me not a rat's ass difference what any one did during the Viet Nam war. Every one had varying opinions at that time. And every one was in a different set of circumstances.

My mother only had one brother and they drafted him and she and her sisters and her mother all went to the draft board and begged them not to take him because he was the only son...they took him anyway, and he came back okay. Do I hold something against these people for trying to get their loved one out of life-threatening situation? Hell no.

If they had been influential and been able to pull more strings and get him in a less dangerous situation, would that have been wrong? Not in my eyes.

I don't care if Bush's family managed to protect him in some way. I don't care if Kerry was in less danger than a kid from Kansas. What the hell difference does that make?

Is the American population so friggin stupid that they think protection via influence is something new? God help us if that's true.

By the way, my brother was not drafted, he volunteered, so it becomes a moot point in his case.



posted on Mar, 7 2004 @ 06:41 AM
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p.s. And I can tell you who my brother supports...

and it aint Kerry.



posted on Mar, 7 2004 @ 07:55 AM
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You know what. I've just decided something. If "how you spent your summer vacation during the Viet Nam war" is what is either going to qualify or disqualify you to be president...

I hereby nominate my brother for the presidency of the United States...he's got both these dufus's beat hands down.

A little insite to his qualifications:

57th AHC Gladiators

Gladiators and Cougars in Viet Nam

57th Assault Helicopter Company

Special Missions (NOTE: My brother did carry out insertion and extraction missions into Cambodia when we weren't supposed to be "in Cambodia". )

All About the "Battle of Kontum" (NOTE: My brother was at Pleiku and Kontum 1969) (EDIT NOTE: I had to correct this. I initially had 68-69. I just spoke with the candidate and he corrected me. We definitely do not want any discrepancies in his military record lest we provide ammunition to the other camps in what will most definitely be a brutal presidential race.)

Medals:

Air Medal - for completing so many successful missions

Army Commendation Medal - under heavy mortar attack they ran across base to helicopters, took off under attack and suppressed enemy fire. October 25, 1969 - 4 days before the helicopter crash.

Anybody got any campaign contributions they'd like to throw this way???





[Edited on 7-3-2004 by Valhall]

[Edited on 7-3-2004 by Valhall]



posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
I'm coming from the angle of course that Bush did not come close to putting himself on the line like your brother. Perhaps neither Bush or Kerry need to parade and prance around like war heros...IMO.


I have a real problem with candidates who think that a battle record equates to one's ability to run the country.

The info disseminated in this thread about Kerry's "record" is news to me. I plan to research this some more. Three PHs in four months? Wow, when did he find time to sleep? That does sound fishy.

Valhall, thank your brother for his service and sacrifice.



posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 05:39 PM
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At least you can find information about Kerry's record.

Valhall, I was just a kid back then. I don't recall much from that war. I do remember my friends family being very upset from the news of 2 sons being drafted. They were never the same when they came back.

I'm sorry to hear of your brother's encounter.

Lets hope there is no more war and/or draft which is rumored to be in the making.



posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 05:51 PM
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A couple of comments. 1st Kerry and Fonda were at a rally, they were not together, my mother attended rallies while my father was in Vietnam, she wanted her husband home. We all now know the photo of them on the stage together was faked.

I mean how is going to war, fighting, coming home and trying to get your brothers in arms home bad? Today we all know that vietnam was horrible and wrong. Our soilders were sent by politicians to fight an unjust war we had not business in. So John Kerry went, saw this and became a politician. Maybe he did so to ensure no one else had to fight such a war. Could be why he has spent most of his political life working on foriegn relations (best way to avoid war).

I am not a huge fan of his but I cannot see why being in the army, willing to fight at a moments notice to defend our of our freedoms means you cannot excercise those very freedoms when you leave the service. Seems wrong to me.

As for Bush, look face it, rich white kid did not serve as much as the poor (insert any color) kid. Is that such a surprise? It is life, it happened to many people. Unless he pushes his service why do we care? John Kerry is pushing his service so looking into is fine.



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