We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

I have found it is worse then useless to argue the point with Vegans. Vegans are worse then conservative bible thumping republicans.

No facts you give them will sway them from trying to sway you to there way of thinking. They will yell all day at the top of there lungs how there way is the right way and the rest of humanity is wrong. they will say that they have science on there side. They will not see facts.

They will say silly things like our k9 teeth have evolved because we started to eat meat. never mind that all the skulls found have had them from the earliest ones to present day. Meaning we have always ate meat.

They will say oh if you need the vitamins that come from meat, buy them. Never mind that in our distant past we could only get those vitamins from eating meat we could not mass produce vitamin tablets.

They will show you silly charts to support there arguments but there charts have proof that they are wrong purposely left out. I could go on and on with 100% facts poking holes in there arguments but whats the use.

They will still chose to hide what they are just so they can feel superior to you. You will never convince them that we need meat every bit as much as we do fruits and vegetables.

I will say this much. The survival forum is the wrong place for this argument. Meat can will and does keep us alive. If you chose not to believe this then you are choosing not to survive. Don't come to a survivalist forums and preach to us not to use one of the greatest survival tools because it offends your superiority complex.

The website you linked is a vegan website. Not exactly the most unbiased source for information considering the topic here. If you can find a nuetral website that isnt pushing the vegan way of life or the carnivore way of life, and that has some evidence that has been backed up by science. People will take a scientist much more serious than some random guy on the internet. If there really is something to your claims it shouldnt be that hard to find some REAL evidence.


As for that chart you posted, it is very misleading and most likely inaccurate considering it leaves out omnivores.

Please provide a non-biased link with some scientific evidence to back up your claim. If you do I will take this thread serious, but untill then....

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

What point about creatine? I've never taken it and as stated earlier, I'm a vegan of 4.5 years who went from 10.5 stone to 13.75 through weight training. I'm big, I'm strong and I'm healthy.

reply to post by Danger Girl


UTTER TWADDLE

your "fact " is a blatant lie propagated by idiots who want me to pay to have a hose pipe stuck up my backside

I apologize for getting gross here but it is a fact.

Originally posted by angryamerican
I will say this much. The survival forum is the wrong place for this argument. Meat can will and does keep us alive. If you chose not to believe this then you are choosing not to survive. Don't come to a survivalist forums and preach to us not to use one of the greatest survival tools because it offends your superiority complex.

Skipping over the whole insult of superiority complex i agree fully with you. I know the wild foods of britain, i know whats available at each time of the year and i know, for a fact that no person could survive a winter here without fish or animal meat. Even with fish i still think you'd need animal meat for the fat.

If this were in any other forum this arguement would be mute, however it's in the survival forum at the moment and in a survival situation meat is your friend and in colder climates, essential.

Oh and for those saying we're designed to not eat meat, i will bring up the eskimo as proof. They survived on diets containing meat and fat only for a long time. They are obviously designed to eat meat.

reply to post by angryamerican


Keep in mind that vegans are plant killers. Plants are living things yet vegans mercilessly rip them apart and sometime eat them raw for no other reason then their eating enjoyment! How horrific !!!! It's disgusting how they treat plants before they kill them also. Shove them in small round containers or small plots of land the douse them with various chemicals and leave them out in the heat and cold to be ripped apart by insects.

Stop the senseless torture and killing of plants now!!!

reply to post by Cythraul


Well go read the points about creatine they're a few pages back by now. If the weight training worked for you then great but i'm pointing out you are the exception not the rule, if you had eaten meat i bet you would have seen greater and faster gains than on a vegetarians diet. If you want to argue that then go for it but i'm afraid it is a fact. I'm not being ignorant or close minded i simply know how the human body works.

Arnold Swazzeneggar would not have been Mr.Universe on a vegetarian diet

reply to post by Danger Girl


Incorrect. Since evolving from Neanderthal's we have always eaten meat, do you really think cavemen ran around and ate plants??? Besides, without eating meat your diet is severly lacking vital nutrients nescessary for growth & development. A diet lacking meat is a diet lacking protein and protein is nescessary for many vital bodily functions such as growth, repair and it even plays a part in metabolism. To compare humans to carnivores & herbivores is also incorrect as a carnivore or herbiavore aka an animal does not have a "mind" or conscious understanding of its surroundings i.e. I might like cheese, you might not particulary like cheese thus you don't eat it, however an animal doesnt like or not like a food, it eats to survive! That is the different.

Originally posted by Cythraul
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

What point about creatine? I've never taken it and as stated earlier, I'm a vegan of 4.5 years who went from 10.5 stone to 13.75 through weight training. I'm big, I'm strong and I'm healthy.

Creatine is nitrogenous organic acid that occurs naturally in vertebrates and helps to supply energy to muscle and nerve cells.

The presence of this energy buffer system keeps the ATP/ADP ratio high at subcellular places where ATP is needed, which ensures that the free energy of ATP remains high and minimizes the loss of adenosine nucleotides, which would cause cellular dysfunction.

the phosphocreatine/creatine kinase system also acts as an intracellular energy transport system from those places where ATP is generated (mitochondria and glycolysis) to those places where energy is needed and used, e.g., at the myofibrils for muscle contraction, at the sarcoplasmic reticulum (SR) for calcium pumping, and at the sites of many more biological processes that depend on ATP.

Wait a minute......

A Hell of a lot of birds eat fish, and scraps of meat for that matter.

Now i dont know about you but ive never seen a bird with a full set of canines to chew meat.

All species will adapt, not just humans.

For gods sake people, if you had no choice and were starving youd be eating bin liners and yoghurt pots just to try and get something in your stomach.

Weve adapted to our circumstances as have most animals.

Saying we werent designed to eat meat is just ignorant, we were designed to eat anything of nutritional value.....full stop.

As many vegans have posted they supplement their diet with vitamins,
a sure sign we wernt meant to only eat grains and plants.

T.Smith

reply to post by Cythraul


In regards to creatine, it isn't needed to have success with weight training, but I myself as an athlete and many will testify to its effectiveness. By the way, you do know that creatine occurs naturally in Beef? Another pro for including meat in your diet. And you say you weight train? But, do you not take protein supplements? Take it from someone who knows, your physique, strength and muscle tone would improve greatly if you did supplement with protein. Try telling Mr Olympia protein/meat isnt needed to build a great body, you would get laughed at!!!

Gorillas are nearly completely vegetarian, though they do eat insects and grubs when available. They get their B12 from eating their own bowel movements as the bacteria in the colon synthesize B12! So, if you want to be a pure vegan and live naturally, you're going to have to start eating sh*t out of the toilet ....gross!

Personally, I find that about 90-95% vegan is best with the occasional fish or shellfish thrown in for protein, omega-3s and a multivit gets whatever else is missing. A mix of lentils, rice, beans, and quinoa cooked together is an excellent staple and provides complete protein.

Eating a diet high in conventionally produced meat is indeed toxic as these animals have been fed corn only diets. They have no omega-3 fatty acids, lots of omega-6 fatty acids which are highly inflammatory and lead to all sorts of chronic diseases.

That being said the OP is on the right track; we are opportunistic meat eaters by nature; 99% of the time our ancestors scavenged and ate roots, veggies, fish/shellfish, insects and the bones of left-over lion kills which we cracked open for marrow or brains. Mostly our ancestors were too slow to catch live meat except on rare occasions when they could drive a bison over a cliff or into a pit trap.

reply to post by jfj123


That was my whole point, creatine is essential and although our bodies can keep a low level of it without meat it does reduce our physical prowess. So muscular gains may still be seen but the chances are, when pushed to the limit,a meat eater will out perform a vegetarian due to this creatine imbalance and the reduced ability of a vegetarian to create ATP.

Basic science of the human body, mucles contractions cannot happen without ATP and ATP is created more quickly with high creatine levels. So whilst you may be strong without meat you would be stronger and endure more with it.

I know, however would we function? I'm surprised I've even lived a full two years being Vegan. It's incredible to find out the way I've been eating has been sucking me dry for the past few years.. Thank god we have people who've never tried the diet, only criticized to set us straight. As if it's some grand battle between people who eat meat, and others who don't. Another wild social cliche, I'll never understand.


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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by jfj123

 

That was my whole point, creatine is essential and although our bodies can keep a low level of it without meat it does reduce our physical prowess. So muscular gains may still be seen but the chances are, when pushed to the limit,a meat eater will out perform a vegetarian due to this creatine imbalance and the reduced ability of a vegetarian to create ATP.

Basic science of the human body, mucles contractions cannot happen without ATP and ATP is created more quickly with high creatine levels. So whilst you may be strong without meat you would be stronger and endure more with it.

I agree that someone who had a higher intake of creatine would perform better almost universally. I myself am a weightlifter/bodybuilder and when I first started taking creatine, within 2 weeks, I had notable size and strength gains. Bench increased by 20 lbs, squat by 60lbs, deadlift by 60lbs. So in other words, with lower levels of creatine, you're going to perform at lower levels.

Originally posted by j_kalin
Eating a diet high in conventionally produced meat is indeed toxic as these animals have been fed corn only diets. They have no omega-3 fatty acids, lots of omega-6 fatty acids which are highly inflammatory and lead to all sorts of chronic diseases.

Where di you get those "facts"? Firstly few animals are fed corn only diets, in fact it would be very unhealthy for many of the animals involved and they wouldn't last until slaughter day. Most forms of meat are low in the omega fatty acids naturally, hence why fish is being promoted so heavily as a good supplier of it.

Originally posted by j_kalin
That being said the OP is on the right track; we are opportunistic meat eaters by nature; 99% of the time our ancestors scavenged and ate roots, veggies, fish/shellfish, insects and the bones of left-over lion kills which we cracked open for marrow or brains. Mostly our ancestors were too slow to catch live meat except on rare occasions when they could drive a bison over a cliff or into a pit trap.

Then your ancestors are very different to mine, becuase if you ever visited any natural history museam you will find bows, arrows, arrowheads, spears, blow darts etc etc. Our ancestors were hunters by and large, gatherers also but in the winter months gathering took a very back seat to hunting.

Trapping also isn'ta modern thing, our ancestors were very likely trapping animals, the only reason we have less proof of that is becuase traps tend to decompose as they were made from natural fibers. However people who have been isolated for thousands of years have been found trapping.

Hunting was a large part of our ancestors daily routine, A fact that takes a complete denial of archeological evidence to refute.

reply to post by jfj123


Yep and in that case it proves our bodies are meant to aquire it, as the only source is meat and dairy then we need those products in our diets. I doubt our ancestors would have seen such gains as useless and stopped eating it. Meat is needed, plain and simple.

However to the vegetarians and vegans here. It does not mean that being a vegetarian is wrong, it's a personal choice, but please don't force it upon others, tell us we're wrong or generally call us immoral. It's not immoral to want your body to run at peak performance by consuming meat.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


We wern't saying vegans and vegetarians couldn't function, read teh thread again, we were saying you would function better with creatine and meat protein. Don't twist the words of people, thank you.

peoples in more colder than warmer regions of the world would have to resort to killing and eating meat because it's the only food around in significant amounts.

No known safe plants, vegetables, or fruits to eat around, what would you do?

But I would have to agree that in this day and age of vast gardening knowledge, humans should start weaning itself off meat and back into plant based diets.

Did your meat go bad? no problem, farm and gather maggots and other bugs from rotting meat, wash the maggots, and fry them, etc. I've never tried maggots but I've heard they are tasty.

You can even eat worms, cleaned slugs, snails. Just rummage through an advanced compost pile or the ground.

I think you can even eat grass provided anyone didn't put pesticides on it.

As long as its not poisonous, indigestible, contaminated, a foodsafe concern, humans can probably eat anything.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Wow, it took till page 9 before anyone mentioned the Eskimo. They were some of the healthiest people on the planet before they got overwhelmed with Western culture and had to start buying refrigerators and microwaves.

About 20 years ago, I had a girlfriend who became a vegetarian. About 15 minutes later, she began to try to enlighten all within earshot about our unhealthy and destructive ways. She used to really hate it when I mentioned her unusually sharp canine teeth.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Moreover, since this thread is in the Survival forum, a Vegan diet is the privileged choice of modern society and has NOTHING to do with biology or what would otherwise happen if that society were suddenly taken away from you.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by loam]