I'd like to add that these debates are POINTLESS on forums where 95% of people are meat-eaters. There will never be a fair, civil debate and nothing will be accomplished. See how this thread is awash with fanatical meat-eaters finding any and every way to ridicule vegetarians for making a positive choice!?

Lead by example in the real world!

Since this is in the ''Survivalist'' section, my question is .......

How would a Vegan/Vegatarian fare compared to a Omnivore in an extreme survival situation?

Medically speaking I already know the answer.

Originally posted by Cythraul
I'd like to add that these debates are POINTLESS on forums where 95% of people are meat-eaters. There will never be a fair, civil debate and nothing will be accomplished. See how this thread is awash with fanatical meat-eaters finding any and every way to ridicule vegetarians for making a positive choice!?

Lead by example in the real world!

Then the poster shouldnt put this kind of thread in the SURVIVALISTS section of this forum .......... it was asking for trouble imo.

Simply we are designed to eat everything, though I do believe most people eat more meat than they require. But nothing can keep the human body running at peak efficiency (in the wild, that is living off the land) as meats. I live in Alaska, a person would starve to death without meats for their sheer caloric potency. There is not enough food to subsist off during the fall and winter. Fruits and vegetables simply do not have enough calories for a hunter gatherer to live off, we would have to be like cattle constantly eating and searching for food to survive. Fact is mankind was not built to live only in one climate. Some climate we could live off fruits and vegetables just fine, they are plentiful and hunting is unnecessary. Some places people must fish to survive, fish is the main calorie source and the gathering of vegetables and fruit is limited by either season or locale. Same thing with wild meats. Drier climates do not have enough water to supply adequate moisture for plants to be numerous enough for survival. So we must balance our diets according to where we live.
However, in the modern day we have largely removed ourselves from this and diet is now simply of preference.

Oh and to quote an incorrect statement from the webpage the graph supplied-
"Undoubtedly, all of these [meat-containing] diets were adequate to support growth and life to an age of successful reproduction. To bear and raise offspring you only need to live for 20 to 30 years, and fortuitously, the average life expectancy for these people was just that. The few populations of hunter-gatherers surviving into the 21st Century are confined to the most remote regions of our planetlike the Arctic and the jungles of South America and Africasome of the most challenging places to manage to survive. Their life expectancy is also limited to 25 to 30 years and infant mortality is 40% to 50%. Hunter-gatherer societies fortunately did survive, but considering their arduous struggle and short lifespan, I would not rank them among successful societies."

Obviously the writer is ignoring the Eskimo, Aleut, Inuit and all the other arctic dwellers. Heart disease is virtually unknown to them. Due to diets with extreme amounts of fish, they also consume huge amounts of omega 3 fatty acids. Life expectancy is amazingly high, besides high rate of accidents and death due to exposure.

quote-
"No sharp pointed front teeth. I believe the two canines teeth are a futile attempt of our bodies to adapt to what we and our forefathers have stuffed in our mouth."
Take a look at a bear's skull. Their teeth besides being proportionately larger are very similar to our own. The have molars just like ours, flat with ridges. Yes they have massive canines but bears never had spears did they? Further more they eat and require much more meat proportionately than we do.

Hmm, I think I touched on all of the important issues. I'm not saying a vegan diet is bad, shoot it greatly reduces carcinogens and free radical production. I'm just saying mankind could not have gotten to where we are today without some good old steaks.

-shane

Originally posted by Wotan
Since this is in the ''Survivalist'' section, my question is .......

How would a Vegan/Vegatarian fare compared to a Omnivore in an extreme survival situation?

Medically speaking I already know the answer.

well i wouldnt would i? thats why i brought a 6 month survival kit, and like i said, if it went on longer than that, i wouldnt want to survive anyway... simple as that..

why all this negativity towards someone who doesnt eat meat? where is the problem?




[edit on 15-6-2008 by cosmicstorm]

What we were referring to was the accusation that vegans and vegetarians often look sick and frail...and clearly, we are not.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

My experience would suggest that if anyone can reduce their intake of meat, dairy products and eggs there is a strong probability they will find their health and sense of well-being improves.

Wow…I suppose the equivalent of the way you feel is the same way I feel after working out and exercising but I could not supplement my 3 egg whites and 1 yolk every other day with something vegetarian or meat. It simply would not work for me. I tried being a vegan one year in high school, I lost a lot of weight but that was about it. I believe a healthy balance diet along with “lots” of exercise and some sunshine is all we really need to be happy and better person in general. Best of luck to you and your Vegan diet I bet it’s a big hole in your pocket lol… I’m lactose intolerant and have to look for alternatives and their always a little bit pricier : (




Best Regards,

Richie

An example of why we need meat.

Week 1 of boot camp I meet a guy in our division who says "I don't eat meat and I refuse to shoot a gun. They took away my protein suppliments but I'll make it". I asked him "how do you expect to make it through boot with no protein and how do you expect not to shoot guns in the gdamn military". He got weaker and weaker every day, he got more and more thin. They sent him over to the medical bay and he got an IV twice.

They told him if you don't eat some protein we are going to kick you out of the military. He still refused. The next day we were doing wind sprints and he was looking very pale. We all were just standing there and I heard a thud. He hit the ground and never woke up. His heart stopped.

First off, the "fact" about humans having no sharp, pointed front teeth is B.S., I have 2 in the front of my mouth like everyone else. We are omnivores.

Second, there are some people who enjoy hunting and slaughtering animals. I personally don't, I would rather kill and slaughter a person any day because people deserve it more than animals. I would butcher an animal if I had to though. That's why we have people who do that stuff for a living.

Vegans can have their lifestyle if they want. They can live their life weak and frail if they want. There are so many reports of these people not giving their babies milk and the babies end up in the ER.

I'm just rambling so I'll shut up now.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Ragnarok691]

Chimpanzees eat meat. Homo ancestors ate meat. Eating meat meant a
our guts could reduce in size allowing our brains to expand (because guts and brains take up the most calories in the body to run).

Forgive me if this was said earlier in the thread, but I skipped a few pages when it seemed pointless to keep reading the same thing being said over and over...

You might just owe your big brain to the fact that we started eating meat way back when. Two things that contributed the most to that were fire and tools. While a cow sitting on the side of the road might not make me salivate, the smell of it cooking sure does. Something similar probably happened a long time ago during a grass fire. And who needs sharp front teeth when you can cut the meat yourself and it's easier to chew after being cooked?

You want some statistical evidence for why we should keep eating meat? Look at Prince Fielder's home run stats for last year and this year. Last year he was eating meat, this year he's a vegan. Go back to eating meat Prince!

Originally posted by jfj123

We can only get certain essentials from meats. As example, creatine is only found in red meats.

That's actually a very good point about creatine. Without suplementing this chemical many vegetarians and vegans have shown to be rather low in their muscle concentrations of creatine.

Whilst creatine isn't an essential chemical at high level sin most people, it is associated with quick access to energy for high burst activites. Punching in martial arts, or in a survival situation, using an axe to chop something, firing a bow and arrow or any other activity that requires quick access to energy.

Vegans and vegetarians would therefore be more prone to fatigue ina survival situation depending on how their bodies used and accessed the different methods of energy production.

Originally posted by mrmanuva
If optimum health is the goal, then being generally vegetarian, but eating a few portions of oily fish and a couple of portions of poultry per week is probably the best bet. If the goal is to have a clear conscience, then veganism is the way. I still dont eat red meat, but that is more of a health decision than anything, as I see no advantage to eating it, it is full of fat, cholesterol and the body has a hard time breaking it down.

How would veganism give you a clear conscience? I eat meat and i don't feel bad about it because i recognise we were built to eat meat. I dont' eat much red meat either due to simple health choice like you.

Vegans who don't even eat honey or eggs on moral grounds are people i will never quite understand. Eating honey doesn't hurt the bees, eating eggs doesn't hurt the hens and the eggs were never fertilized so they woudln't have become chicks. Sorry i don't see the logic in that one.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Interesting how an "omnivore" column was conveniently omitted from that chart.

look people the fact is that nobody knows what is good for me or anybodyelse. What is good for me may be bad for you and vice versa. If you feel like you are healthier eating one thing and not another then great, but that doesn't mean other people will have the same outcome. Just because your allergic to bees doesn't mean I am.