We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
All these things however, don't make it morally right to eat meat, and I think it's high time people realised this.

Oh, a moral lesson now??? Can you cite in any holy book where God states eating meat to be a sin? I'll be over here marinating my steak waiting for yout to reply.

In the meantime, I am FREE to choose what to eat and be free from any poitnless lectures from stinky. hippy vegans telling me how to live - and I think it's high time you vegans realize it!!!

We began eating meat as a species just before the Ice Age. As we, as monkeys, found that eating meat increased our muscles and other refinments (noted by the growth of the human versus monkey brain). Also, it is hard to say that we are not ment to eat meat when our teeth are set up as all carnivors are.

We are indeed ment to eat meat. The moral issue is one that you can choose to deny or agree to. If we were ment to be vedgitarians, our stomaches would not be able to process meat, our teeth would be long and flat(to grind up grain and leaves).

I'm a cavewoman.
I don't like it when I feel cold.
So my caveman whollops a beast and I cut off the hide for clothes and just leave the meat where it lays?
NAWWWWWWWW...

*Meat be yummie*
Goat and horse the best.




*P*E*A*C*E*

Not sure it has been said but Humans have depth perception by the placement of our eyes. Carnivores need depth perception to hunt their prey.

We cannot digest grass and leaves, so our plant food is somewhat limited. We were also hunter gathers long before we were farmers because of that limited plant life we can consume.

I hate that you guys had to discuss this around in circles for so long. Although I can appreciate the discipline of vegetarians, the basis of thier argument wouldn't survive the prliminary stages of ANY philosophical examination, as facts are rapidly brought to light. Regarless of what you tell avegetarian, they have argumentative stances similar to agressively religious people who lack the ability/desire to "prove" or "disprove" facts in a definitive manner.

But in the interest of lending this forum unbiased info for why we eat meat, regardless of personal opinion, this is why we eat meat:


There were and always will be other animals just a few thousand or so years behind the developement of some of the features that have bolstered the biological sucess of higher primates (speech, social order,tools,etc.) In fact , from an evolutionary standpoint, there were actually species of primates very similar to our current man thas had become extinct over the centuries. The survival of our current species is very closely related to our SOCIAL sucess as modern man.
One of the dominant factors in allowing the advancement of our species has been our ability to harness high calorie food sources. As can de seen with all animals walking this earth, the most intelligent and socially advanced creatures, aside from elephants(which have developed from species many millions of years older than man) eat meat. In a situation where communities have easy acess to nutrition, more time can be occupied in the persuit of higher ideas (cave painting, flint knapping, building shelters. Cognitive developement in this area is exponential. Had man been trapped in a position that forced them to subsist on shrubbery alone, we would still be in caves.
To give you a more easy to relate to answer: Ask yourself which tribes of Native Americans have the highest population now. Which ones were smart enough to survive a mass invasion and domination by the Europeans?... Not the farming tribes.
Still doubtful?... How much time does the average herbivore spend a day grazing?

How much time does a lion spend eating?

While the food intake of many herbivores is measured in mulriples of bodyweight, the intake of carnivores is measured in calories.

Now that our sucess as a species has given us the opportunities to tailor our diets as we please, it never ceases to amaze me that people are fooling themselves into being so sophisticated as to attempt to deminish some of the most essential details of our survival and sucess as a species.

reply to post by Danger Girl


Hi Danger Girl- great post

Flagged and Starred.

I'm a Vegan by the way.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


read the China Study to uncover the truth about vitamin B12. The only reason we vegans can no longer receive B12 from our diets is because we are so separated from nature. our soil used to be rich in B12 but due to the high amounts of sanitation it has been robbed of it. But eating meat to aquire B12 is no better for your heart with all the cholesterol. so take supplements and wait for the science to come in from tests on raw nori seaweed and other sea vegetables that may be rich in B12.

I eat meat, I am a homo sapiens we evolved from apes, apes like chimps and bonobos who todays still hunt and kill lesser primates for food. I have incisors for cutting meat, molar for crushing bone and sinew. It is natural for modern humans to eat meat just as homo erectus and other earlier types of man ate meat. It has nothing to do with morality, it is simply nature.

reply to post by Northern Raider



Is it 100% proven we evolved from apes
Isn't there enough food growing on trees and in the earth for us not to have to kill and eat meat ??

Regards

satellite1

[edit on 6-1-2009 by satellite1]

reply to post by satellite1

I suppose the answer to the 100% question would vary greatly depending on the individual's belief structure. I reckon any ape falling over an impala corpse caught in a forest fire is going to try it, and if they like it, they might even welcome brush fires in the hope of eating this newly discovered luxury. Over time they might have even learned how to set fires themselves.

But I digress...

There are plenty of things that grow from the ground or crawl around under and over it. It's a question of where you draw the line. Personally, grubs and wild pigeons aren't particularly appetising currently but there may come a time when I have to hold my nose and get on with it. Unless you live in nut and berry heaven, or a modern city it's unlikely you will be able to afford to pick and choose.

Originally posted by satellite1
reply to post by Northern Raider

 

Is it 100% proven we evolved from apes

Isn't there enough food growing on trees and in the earth for us not to have to kill and eat meat ??

Regards

satellite1

[edit on 6-1-2009 by satellite1]

yup DNA does not lie, theres less than 2% varience between us and the higher apes.
And no there is simply nowhere nearly enough plant material in the world to support over 7 billion people, even with meat and fish and soya people are starving.

Anyone else see that documentary on discovery about the meat eating chimps, turns out chimps and bononboes are are bad as us humans, they got superb footage of packs of chimps working as a team to chase and capture monkeys. which they killed by pulling them apart.

What rattled me was how vicious the chimps were at fighting each other to get the preys head because they apparently like to eat brains......

Dear Captain Obvious,

Meat is good!!!!!!!!!!!!
Meat is delicious!!!!!!!

Texas! Mmmmm, Whenever I pass through Texas I make it
a point to stop at Mikeskas.

Even if were not carnivores by science, who cares?!

Like people are gonna read your chart and decide to
eat the bushes in front of their house.

Are we designed to smoke, drink alcohol or eat
fast food?! Probably not.

Are we designed to eat meat?!
Probably not, but we do, cause it's more
delectable then eating a radish or a beat.

Whenever I drive past a cow, I make it a point
to roll down the window and yell, "I'm gonna
eat you later".

Next, you should visit the SMOKING thread and tell
them that smoking is bad for them.

reply to post by Northern Raider


Yes. That's what reminded me earlier. I couldn't remember the monkey species which is why I resorted to Impala (unlikely, but hey it worked for the benefit of the point).

I was a fish and cheese eater for ten years until four years ago. I reverted mid-way through a 400 mile cycling holiday. I had covered a large portion in the first couple of days to reach my first stop. I was a guest and knackered; been living off water, electrolytes and the odd sarnie for two days. Was offered chicken soup and didn't hesitate in accepting the offer. It was then I realised there was little point in denying myself, particularly when it was needed.

Besides, chicken is technically a vegetable.

I have been a pescatarian (don't eat animals or birds but do eat fish) for 14 years and don't suffer from any health problems, but I honestly think the OP's argument regarding the diagram is week.
Herbivores ONLY have molars, while we have, in addition to molars, incisors and canines. That makes us omnivores.

Originally posted by Disney
The following diseases are commoner among meat eaters: anaemia, appendicitis, arthritis, breast cancer, cancer of the colon, cancer of the prostrate, constipation, diabetes, gallstones, gout, high blood pressure, indigestion, obesity, piles, strokes and varicose veins. Lifelong vegetarians visit hospital 22% less often than meat eaters and for shorter stays. Vegetarians have a 20% lower blood cholestrol level than meat eaters and this reduces heart attack and cancer risks considerably.

Actually anaemia is much more common in vegans than meat eaters.

Originally posted by Northern Raider

Originally posted by satellite1
reply to post by Northern Raider

 

Is it 100% proven we evolved from apes

Isn't there enough food growing on trees and in the earth for us not to have to kill and eat meat ??

Regards

satellite1

[edit on 6-1-2009 by satellite1]

yup DNA does not lie, theres less than 2% varience between us and the higher apes.
And no there is simply nowhere nearly enough plant material in the world to support over 7 billion people, even with meat and fish and soya people are starving.

Well apparantly we could have evolved from mice too if DNA is the 100% proof .. and if all the food was shared adequately between all of us i'm sure there would be enough to go round, trouble is, people are more interested in war than ridding the world of famine ..

Sorry for swaying off topic

Regards

satellite1

Originally posted by the siren
I have been a pescatarian (don't eat animals or birds but do eat fish) for 14 years and don't suffer from any health problems, but I honestly think the OP's argument regarding the diagram is week.
Herbivores ONLY have molars, while we have, in addition to molars, incisors and canines. That makes us omnivores.

Originally posted by Disney
The following diseases are commoner among meat eaters: anaemia, appendicitis, arthritis, breast cancer, cancer of the colon, cancer of the prostrate, constipation, diabetes, gallstones, gout, high blood pressure, indigestion, obesity, piles, strokes and varicose veins. Lifelong vegetarians visit hospital 22% less often than meat eaters and for shorter stays. Vegetarians have a 20% lower blood cholestrol level than meat eaters and this reduces heart attack and cancer risks considerably.

Actually anaemia is much more common in vegans than meat eaters.

Sorry for the appallingly large quote.

Statistics... Correlation can imply, but never prove, causation. It is highly possible a lifelong vegetarian visits hospital less often because they rely more on alternative treatments; have no access to medical facilities; and if they do end up there could be so sick that they die quicker than meat-eaters, hence the shorter stay.

I have noticed no real changes to my health since reverting.

Evidence of Humans as Omnivores
Archeological Record
As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants.

Cell Types
Relative number and distribution of cell types, as well as structural specializations, are more important than overall length of the intestine to determining a typical diet. Dogs are typical carnivores, but their intestinal characteristics have more in common with omnivores. Wolves eat quite a lot of plant material.

Fermenting Vats
Nearly all plant eaters have fermenting vats (enlarged chambers where foods sits and microbes attack it). Ruminants like cattle and deer have forward sacs derived from remodeled esophagus and stomach. Horses, rhinos, and colobine monkeys have posterior, hindgut sacs. Humans have no such specializations.

Jaws
Although evidence on the structure and function of human hands and jaws, behavior, and evolutionary history also either support an omnivorous diet or fail to support strict vegetarianism, the best evidence comes from our teeth.

The short canines in humans are a functional consequence of the enlarged cranium and associated reduction of the size of the jaws. In primates, canines function as both defense weapons and visual threat devices. Interestingly, the primates with the largest canines (gorillas and gelada baboons) both have basically vegetarian diets. In archeological sites, broken human molars are most often confused with broken premolars and molars of pigs, a classic omnivore. On the other hand, some herbivores have well-developed incisors that are often mistaken for those of human teeth when found in archeological excavations.

Salivary Glands
These indicate we could be omnivores. Saliva and urine data vary, depending on diet, not taxonomic group.

Intestines
Intestinal absorption is a surface area, not linear problem. Dogs (which are carnivores) have intestinal specializations more characteristic of omnivores than carnivores such as cats. The relative number of crypts and cell types is a better indication of diet than simple length. We are intermediate between the two groups.

Conclusion
Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns.

[Dr. McArdle is a vegetarian and currently Scientific Advisor to The American Anti-Vivisection Society. He is an anatomist and a primatologist.]

I eat meat for convenience and I salivate when I think about a hot juicy piece of meat.

There'd be far less varieties of humans on earth if none of us ate meat. (or maybe more if some of them had) Hmm - the Inuit and other Eskimos would not exist - don't think they'd be digging for potatoes in the ice. What about the American Indians - how many of them would of survived on only roots and cactus in the desert? I guess they wouldn't exist either.

Nope humans are humans because they ate flesh, now those of you who can afford to read this have a choice not to eat flesh - you're lucky - enjoy it. I happen to like flesh for the time being, so don't mind if I continue my habit and I'll let you enjoy your habits - comprehend?

Without technology vegans & vegetarians could survive, but their choices would be fewer.

Next time you buy and enjoy that pineapple from Costco for $4 bucks, remember it took oil and a high technology transport to fly it in, it took 18 months of tropical sunshine to create just one fruit. Like macadamia nuts? It takes about 10 years before the trees began to have harvestable fruit and then through technology to keep them alive, disease free. They too only grow in the tropics - so it takes oil to transport them to you.

Nuts are about the best replacement for meat that can be made to taste good & are full of energy, but it takes quite a bit of land and allot of work to produce them - that's why they cost more than all but the higher cuts of meat. With fresh produce made in greenhouses, under grow lights along with aircraft & cold storage transports we have a bigger variety of food available today than ever - Well at least in America and other modern wealthy countries. That's what's meant by luxury - in some places you eat whatever there is - whether that's, insects, critters, roots or whatever else can sustain your life.

I only know two family's in my circle that are vegans, they have allot of kids and they do look healthy, but they do have some odd diseases.

Yeah, factory farms are crap and they produce disease, but that's changing and people are demanding better meat from healthier animals.

We eat meat because it has always been more convenient and it's much easier kill flesh in the middle of winter for fresh food rather than having to have technology.

If Sit-X ever comes I bet most of us meat eaters will get very little if any, but vegetarians will eat all the meat they can if that's what it takes to sustain life (survive). Now, you have the luxury of choices - that might not always be true - be prepared.


If I had to become a cannibal to survive I think I'd rather eat a vegetarian or vegan. I don't know why, but they just sound better and I bet they'd be more tender.


[edit on 9-1-2009 by verylowfrequency]

Id like to make few statements on a few posts. As for our biological adaptation, we are not herbivores, carnivores, insectivores nor omnivores.

-We have "canine teeth' for the purpose of breaking through the flesh of tough fruits such as apples, peaches, nectarines, etc.

-Vitamin B-12 is naturally created in our intestines and humans do and cannot receive it from any other source naturally.

-Meat isn't 'tasty' naturally. Chemicals and preservatives create the taste sensation you get when eating the steak. If you comment with, "What about right after the grilling without seasoning", your tasting what is called bone char. That is when the chemicals from the flame is heating up meat and the uric acid inside the meat. *SPECIAL NOTE* That taste you 'love' is actually uric acid in the flesh. Uric acid is the byproduct of urine. Our organs are under pressure while we are alive, after death (almost instantly) the body releases the pressure forcing fluids that we are holding into the meat and flesh. Yes, you are eating urine.

-Our teeth are not designed to eat anything specific, per say. "What we are is defined by what we digest" rather than "you are what you eat" . Humans can not digest large amounts of roughage properly. One of the biggest reasons is we do not produce the enzyme cellulase which breaks down cellulose. KEY in digesting roughage and getting complete nutritional value without putting strain on other important vital organs. And a simple chart would show the difference in digestive systems between graminivores and herbivores with humans. Length of entire system, intestines, coon shape, enzyme production, etc.

-As for the "theory of evolution" comment. No matter how "poorly" humans eat with flesh fare and toxic products, our digestive system will never change and will never be able to digest properly what we are not biologically adapted to eating. Most peoples problems is the live to eat instead of eat to live.

I wont flood the forum and try to make corrections of every comment posted but would rather answer questions individually if need be. I have a PhD in Natural Health/Hygiene. My life study is Orthotrophy (correct feeding) of humans for maximum health and longevity of life. I am opening a Health Institution within the next two years which will be supervised dietary changes and fasting. I have helped 100's reverse diseases, rid themselves of diabetes type two, correct type one, arthritus, gout, and of course loose weight healthfully and so on.
Also i would like to point out that i am not someone who doesnt eat animals because of the cruelty of slaughter or that i feel their lives are more important and all of that. I was a steak lover, junk food eater, fast food go-er like the rest of America till it caught up to me with internal problems rather than external. At 17 with multiple diagnoses and a very fit, athletic figure i found out the hard way...even though i can swallow it, it doesnt mean my body can use it. And when it cant use it, it's toxic inside.

Hope everyone can find this information useful.