Originally posted by Unsane
I do like the taste of meat, but why kill something that you don't have to?

Why torture yourself when you don't have to?

Originally posted by Unsane
Ive become a Vegetarian in the last 3 weeks, I find it helps me to eat more vegetables and fruit (the 5 a day) when before I was not eating as much as I should.

So for me it actually helped with my health and I also will save about a thousand large animals in my lifetime. For this I think it is worth it.

Humans have the means and knowledge to not eat meat and keep a healthy diet.

I do like the taste of meat, but why kill something that you don't have to?

Because to have a healthy diet, you need to have meat in it

An extreme example of "design requiring diet" would be as follows:
Feed a lion a strictly vegan diet. The animal will die as it is not "designed" to eat what you are feeding it. Although we are not complete carnivores, you can easily see that a partial carnivore (omnivore) would have problems if part of it's diet was taken away.

40 pages and 782 posts about a non-survival technique. I'm implore the moderators to move this non-survival thread to the religious/philosophical board. This is a 'non survival' thread. The OP was trolling for a fight. Don't you folks get it ?

Originally posted by jfj123
Because to have a healthy diet, you need to have meat in it

An extreme example of "design requiring diet" would be as follows:
Feed a lion a strictly vegan diet. The animal will die as it is not "designed" to eat what you are feeding it. Although we are not complete carnivores, you can easily see that a partial carnivore (omnivore) would have problems if part of it's diet was taken away.

Why is it that people make these claims about meat being essential to a healthy diet, but have NEVER even tried living on a vegan diet? Fruits, grains, nuts, vegies, etc. are all you need to survive .. I should know, because that's all I eat .. and guess what, I weightlift and have a hell of a lot of muscle mass. It's no wonder you rarely see anything insightful on ATS anymore .. people can't even be troubled to test theories. They'd rather just hop online and see what Dr. MilkDoesABodyGood has to say ..

YAY!! Star for you Guidance....I couldn't agree more and get so sick of being told I'm unhealthy for being vegan most of the time...just look at the results we get...arguement over, as far as I'm concerned.

Cait

I keep reading ignorant post after ignorant post. I'm not convinced most of you even read the original source article.

1) People keep ranting about using being omnivores and thats fine. But as the article points out. We can digest cardboard. Doesn't really mean we should do though.

2) People stipulate that a vegitarian or vegan diet is unhealthy or even that people would die if they didn't eat meat. Hmmm, die? When was the last time you ever heard of a vegi/vegan dying due to not eating meat? I'd love to see it.

And i quote the original article yet again, "Carl Lewis, the runner, won nine Olympic gold medals. Lewis says that he had his best performance as an athlete after he adopted a vegan diet."

Are you really trying to tell me you can win 9 gold medals if your health is as really troubled as you say it would be on a vegan diet? Lets get into the realms of believablity atleast.

Originally posted by jfj123
Because to have a healthy diet, you need to have meat in it

Untrue. I'm very healthy. I feel like we're going around in circles here.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
runners are no the same as bodybuilders and if you think they are then you show utter ignorance of the human body. Runners will do fine as it reuquires a lack of body muscle and high aerobic activity

On the contrary, runners require good quality, lean muscle. Furthermore, overall health is probably more vital for a competitive runner than for a competitive body builder. Greater impact on joints, bigger emphasis on the fast-twitch muscles, more need for energy. Whilst I myself weight-train, bodybuilding shouldn't be taken as the marker by which the merit of a vegan diet is proven or disproven. Bodybuilders don't represent the peak of human physical excellence - they only look like they do .

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
You can call meat eating ignorant but if you say you can get B12 from vegetables you are being ignorant. Please show me any research that says you can get B12 from any natural source, and i mean unaltered, non genetically changed, absolutely natural source. You won't be able to show one and you know what? Because it doesn't exist.

B12 is bacteriological. It just so happens that the bacteria carrying it is largely contained within the animals we eat. You can get B12 from a natural source by eating unwashed vegetables, where the soil and dirt on the vegetable contains the B12 carrying bacteria. Obviously this is not ideal, so vegans usually get their B12 from supplements or foods fortified with B12. The B12 in both of these forms is natural and not synthesized. The only difference is that it has been fermented in an environment seperate from, say, a cow's stomach.

I, as always in this thread, am not trying to claim that veganism is a healthier diet, but I will stick up for its status as a perfectly healthy diet. Obviously, modern science and food production methods make it an easier lifestyle and if in a survival situation, it would be highly impractical.

B12 is readily available in barley grass and some other organic stuff i'll ask my permaculture mate when she gets back in town. I've been trying to avoid wading into the b12 argument cos i think it's a joke tbh, but yeah anyone living an organic vegan lifestyle knows that the bits of dirt on your mushies or potatoes or whatever is enough to cover it and a bit of barley grass if you want to be really fussy. BTW some recent study showed city-slicker omnivores more likely to be b12 deficient than vegos iirc, due to the high level of processing most meat goes thru or something. Again, the b12 thing is a joke to me but carry on!

No....we were not designed to eat grains,we were designed to eat fruit, nuts,berries and bugs.
Grains are just another thing we are having trouble digesting,because we were not designed to metabolise them,because they really didn't exist until recently in the amounts we use.

I disagree.

Herbivores have certain jaw adaptations (loose fitting jaw for constant grazing, diastema instead of canines) made for vegetable ALONE. Human jaws are built for meat as well.

Herbivores also enjoy to digest via reverse peristalsis when because of how much they must digest, in fact, rabbits eat their own feces to re-digest their food. Also having stomachs suited for constant eating due to grazing and whatnot.

Carnivores are built for sparse meals that are easily digested, hence the short intestines. Their jaw is super tight fitted as to have a good grip on prey with their teeth, even used to kill with immense force.

We're built on middle ground. We can eat a whole lot of snacks or salads like a herbivore, or even just a solitary meal for a day. We're adapted to both vegetables and meat, hence our long intestines.

You're table is a little biased.

personally I think people should stay away from eating most vegetables. we aren't designed to eat starchy stuff or grains, we can but were not really designed for it.

Humans are designed to eat mainly barries and fruits (fruits extreamlly important) and bugs and meat when we can get it.

SO really humans were supposed to have a fruit once every few hours -almost all the vitamins you'd need, tons of fiber. antioxidents through the roof. sugars we are designed to eat that don't give us diabetes and most importantly phytonutrients.

we get cancer in my opinion because we don't get enough antioxidents we evolved to get lots of them and we don't get them. FDA says we need to get 4-7 servings a day of fruits. more like we need 12 or so. the best source in the world for antioxidents is the skins of fruits. in fact other than sugar, water and fiber the pulp of fruit and it's juice is pretty useless. everything is found in the skin and rind.

Phytonutrients are also really important to our cells and help our body's fight off disease. probably better than anything man has created as of yet.

ALso, vegan carnivore argument aside. our fruits and vegies are pretty devoid of nutrients. In the 50's you would need according to the FDA to eat 2 peaches a day to get our daily Vitamin A. now according to the same sources we need to eat get this... ... 52. yeah 52.

spinach for Iron. you'd need to eat literally 4 pounds of raw spinach a day to achieve your daily intake of Iron. not too good for the blood. might want to get that iron from a better source like the blood in the meat of animals cooked medium rare, over a hickory fire, and topped off with carmelized onions.

So nobody is really getting nutrients regardless of what they are eating these days. Also multivitamins aren' really bioavailable for us when we pop them in our bodies. We assimilate 25% of the vitamin. the rest we can't absorb and gets pooped or peed out. SO vitamin tablets barely work. fruits however will transfer about 75 percent of their vitamins inot our bodies.

We still should eat some meat though, although it's not really required. you will be healthier for it, even if it's just barely.

Fruits are the key. most of your ailments will go away over time if you eat a bunch of fruit. Stay away from most veggies.

also why are bugs and bone marrow some of the healthiest things a human can eat? just saying if were not supposed to eat meat n all.

[edit on 10-7-2008 by BASSPLYR]

[edit on 10-7-2008 by BASSPLYR]

Actually, we're okay with starch. With amylase saliva in the mouth and other de-starching enzymes in the body, we're capable with a nice amount of starch.

we can digest starches it's the way a lot of starch sugars are processed by the body that are bad. simple sugars from fruits are way better. some starches we can eat. but if you live off of nothing but starches you're going to get diabetes or have a high risk of it. I know some indian tribes live off of nothing but acorn starch but thats cause they have to. generally we shouldn't eat a whole lot of starch. were not really designed to walk through a field and graze away at wheat. starch from beans OK nothing but rice or wheat not so much.

plus other than the complex carbs the starch is useless unless you need even more fiber than fruit can offer. and if thats the case something has gone wrong in the digestive tract. Fruits can easily restore the default button on our digestive tracts and get the stomach working right again. assimilating nutrients more efficiently and making the elimination process much better. even on the liver. fruits are natures wonder foods and we are just discovering it now. better and more consistant regulation of the waste elimination process. which is more important that we realize often times.

Heck some berries like Acai even have the protein profile of an egg.