Oklahoma Declares Sovereignty

It is moot in relation to this topic. The State Department issues Visa's and it is already CLEAR in the Constitution that the Federal Government is responsible for all foreign relations.

This is not claiming any powers already given to the Federal Government in the Constitution are not valid. It is claiming that the powers that are NOT given to the Federal Government by the Constitution are given to the States.

[edit on 6/17/2008 by apolluwn]

If I may, please allow me to interject here, some information that I had been holding back on when this news broke about the Oklahoma declaration...

Illegitimate Federal Government and the Rule of Martial Law in the United States

To the OP, please feel free to stop by and cross-thread of you wish.

this is great news for the American taxpayer. if OK leaves the union, thats close to $200 million research and development dollars saved. couple this with saved federal highway money to OK, and we say "good riddance".

So does this mean the United States of America now only has 50 states?
Or is this just the prerequisite for them to remove themselves?

Do think with for one moment that the U.S. Government will sit still and let OKlahoma do what they want ...how rediculous. The US Government is so drunk with power and making the Constitution worthless as of Sept 11. (Google Ziet Giest) Dont you poeple realize that you are being manipulated by your own government and have been for years. Believe me if Oklahoma starts getting cocky the National Gaurd will be in there so fast it will make youe heads spin.
Im living in Canada and even i know that your constitution was created to keep your government in check ...yet you the people are afraid of your own government ...should it not be the reverse?
You need to House clean your Government ASAP that means getting rid of All Senators Governors Representatives, easpecialy the lobbiest, and special interest groups because they are running the country.. and any one that has been elected within the past ten years, then start over.
The United States is no longer the land of the Free...its now the land of the ignorant, the blind ,the terrorized,ETC.

Good luck you will all need it sooner than you think!

reply to post by Tynee

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No, their not leaving the union. It`s a way to force the government to stop overstepping the powers they were given by the constitution.

Great News!

This is where the TRUE power lies.....If we can't beat them at the national level, start in our own back yards. I could quote Jefferson on this one for the next three days! Good job OK!

Yes, it STILL has 50 states. (We never had 51, as DC isn't a state, other than in the sense of a state of lawlessness.)

reply to post by Tynee

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Sir are you daft?There would be no reason for Oklahoma to leave the union.All they have done is stated their constitutional right to reserve the powers to the state.

reply to post by antar

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FEMA did nothing ofter katrina but take peoples houses and confiscate thier weapons. States must take care of themselfs and stop depending on the FedGov.

It is always good to see a resolution such as this because it shows that at least one arm of goverment is still in touch with the people. Unfortunately, (as I have seen in the past), unless it is agreed to by the state senate and the governor it will go nowhere. It is in the senate where where being in "touch" with the people loses its way and the higher you go after that it becomes totally lost in the greed, corruption and power madness that has infected our government. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for what the OK. reps are attempting but even if it were to happen in all fifty states at the house level the media will suppress it and the Feds will go about business as usual, the senates taking the side of those who butter their bread. The people can get their reps to sign anything but it is the people who have to push the issue to a higher level. Unless the "blind" can be made to "see" and act upon what they see this resolution and others of its type will never see the light they deserve. At the same time I want to say never never ever give up the fight and that anything that might work is worth every effort.

This could also be a manufactured planned answer. To the manufactured planned problem the Fake God lucifer and his slaves want.

We need to look at is solving the problem with ourselves first.

We treat each other with duality of emotion sides. Love and Pride...Love is the greater of the two and can be used to quiet the pride. Selflessness destroys all pride on which sin and angels feed. Pride is a complex range of all feared destructive reactions from your body and mind. It is also a self defense mechanism enacted when others show pride over you. Thus you can ascertain commandments of the orderly through observation of pride. Lieing is a feeling you express when you think yourself above(dont deserve to know) or below(i want to be acknowledged) someone else, a deep rooted conception of fear based reality. When you feel fear you resonate at lower freq. With Love everything is possible and i believe that we can become a whole galaxy in spirit with only love and selflessness to each other.


I love you all

Well being in OK I haven't heard any of this.

I do know there has been opposition to "REAL ID", and that has been in the news. So it seems this maybe related to that.

I have a couple of takes on this.

1. This could gain real momentum and garner alot of votes. Many Oklahoma's Christians are of the dispensationalist/tribulationist eschatology. In other words, they beleive in "the end times" i.e. the 2nd coming of Christ. Part of this entails a one world government run by the Antichrist. Seeing that to Christians who follow this theology, any world government, N. American Union, or NWO would be a cover for a satanic take over, so anything that is going to be a roadblock to that is going to get tons of support. (Contrary to what I often see here at ATS, very FEW Christians beleive they can "bring about" or "hasten" the end times).

2. However; OKC's main employer is the Federal Government. Tinker AFB, the FAA academy and center. Down south has Ft Sill, which is growing at a huge rate, and in McAlester is the army ammo/munitions plant. A threat of "base closures" could ruin the economy. Wouldn't be that hard to get the legislature in line.

I also beleive about 15 years ago the OK legislature issued a proclomation or non binding resolution saying the state would not particpate or be a part of any "world government".

Going to be interesting.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by Sr Wing Commander]

If the Individual States preserve and protect their rights and powers as Sovereign States. What power has the Federal Government got to counter that? As we saw in your magnificent thread about the "legitimacy of the Civil War and the Post Civil War Federal Government, Lincoln first set about to peacefully seize the military assets in the south, and the defense of those Sovereign and local assets escalated into the Civil War.

Lincoln was able to do this because he held the support of the northern states. What states I wonder, would support George Bush, or John McCain?

Would the division of states be as clean as a split between the north and south was, or as complex as a checkerboard? Would the division be down to Counties and Parishes as you demonstrated in the Civil War, before it consolidated into a lesser confusion?

My suspicion is that most if not all states will follow Oklahoma if it should deliver this message, and not allow it to languish. What is the opinion of others on this?

If consensus were the case, what could a tyrant do to oppose it? I ask this question seriously. It is not rhetorical I do not suppose that a Bush a McCain, or a Cheney would surrender to the will of others so easily.

Did Lincoln?


[edit on 20-6-2008 by Cyberbian]

[edit on 20-6-2008 by Cyberbian]

I will go back and read the entire thread, but this guy hit it on the nail as far as I am concerned.

Well first they don't talk about it on the news. Then if it really gets attention, they'll portrait them as rubbish, then traitors.

Then they'll make a big propaganda move 24/7 to say that all states that seceed are rednecks, traitors, terrorists, right-wing christians, liberals, communists, anarchists... demonize them.

Then they'll try to put US army troops in those states to say that ``we must stay united`` against terrorism, those anarchists are traitors! They'll downplay it as saying it's only a minority who took over the state government and that the other citizens of those states are oppressed.

Then it goes from there. Either the folk who are tired of this government get to the streets and demand sovergnity or they get paralyzed thinking they are alone and the FED win again and any further seceeding action will lead to deaths.

Then if there's a massive come out later, it will be civil war between states.