Death Penalty where do you stand?

Originally posted by Shar
I was very upset, angry, mad, etc.. I felt like he should have been executed for this crime. However, he was not. Let go out on the streets.

God toke care of him however, 5 years to the date of my friends husbands death he has killed. Police said gang related.

The courts let him go and his death was gang related. That sounds to me like he was out on the streets 'gnag banging' for five years after he had already killed once just for the fun of it. I wonder how many others he may have killed, or raped or who knows what in that five years before he finally ended up dead himself. It seems to me that God may have finally had to take care of him because our justice system did not.

reply to post by Shar


Emphasis mine:

Now here it is telling us to put a murderer to death. Take no pleasure in it however.

I am going to assume you mean "satisfaction" in verses 31 and 32 of Numbers 35?

31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.
32 And ye shall take no satisfaction for him that is fled to the city of his refuge, that he should come again to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest.

The word "satisfaction" in these verses do not mean "take no pleasure", rather they mean that the murderer is NOT allowed to be set free based on a ransom or bribe or fine.

The word in Number 35:32-33 is "kopher" and it means "ransom" or a "price paid"...like a "fine". It is similar to a court saying, "You can be executed OR pay a fine (a "kopher")".

But in this case, God is saying, "There is no price (fine) that can be paid for a murderer. Murderers must die and no amount of money (from him or any other) can save him."

This was to stop the "rich man" from murdering and getting set free because he "paid the fine". (Or) maybe the murderer had rich relatives...it didn't matter. God said the murderer must die. There is no other price that could be paid.

Please note that God expounds upon this in the very next verse:
Number 35:33
33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

In this verse God says that no amount of money/remorse/penance can "cleanse" the land of the blood (that was shed by the murderer) EXCEPT the blood of him who shed it.

City of Refuge

Numbers 35:32 And ye shall take no satisfaction for him that is fled to the city of his refuge, that he should come again to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest.

A "city of refuge", in the OT, is a fascinating system of justice and (somewhat) foreshadows Jesus and His death for all of His.

I, myself, had a little trouble fully understanding the laws of these "cities of refuge" in Numbers 35:9-34 in the KJV, so I found it helpful to read it in another translation. (New English Translation...it is out of print...but it is an excellent translation)

Apparently, 'homicide' was a pretty major issue and God set up "cities of refuge" in which someone who had killed another, accidentally or otherwise, could run to for safety.

In Numbers 35 God makes a distinction between (what we call) manslaughter and (what we call PREMEDITATED) murder. He has given rules for both.

It should be noted that in the OT, there were no "police": Every man was a police officer. Furthermore, it was up to (actually REQUIRED OF) the next of kin to kill the "murderer". There was no "state" (government) carrying out the "requirement of capital punishment" for murder. The next of kin was required to kill the murderer!

I suppose this post could get quite long if I went into this with analogies and examples, and if you'd like, I'll do so in another post?

You were also (somewhat?) wondering about "capital punishment" in the NT?

Paul talks about this in Romans 13:1-4
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Here (above) God has authorized the State (rulers...government) to punish criminals...with the 'death penalty', if necessary. Personal vengeance (next of kin exacting vengeance...) is no longer permitted.

Some of you say the death penalty is an easy way out for the convicted murderer. You say that it is too good for them as they don't suffer like their victims. And then some of you say the death penalty is inhumane. Logically, it can't be both an easy way out and inhumane.

I agree that it would be easier to die then sit for 25-30 years in a cell. To me the death penalty would be the humane solution while at the same time serving justice.

I thank everyone for their responses. I can only pray that this will never fall upon me to judge another mans life. Cause though even a year ago I would of said death for any murderer or even a rapist I am not so sure anymore. This is something I will prayer about and read, study more about in my Bible. However, feeling the way I feel I do not want to be put into a position of another man’s life.

PreTribGuy,

Thank you for your research in this matter and talking with me.

Anytime anyone comes across anything that deals with this issue in the Bible please if you will post your chapter and verse here so I can read and study it even more. Thanks everyone.

It is very hard to know what you really believe on an issue like this until it has affected you.

We can all say here that we are for or against it, but until someone we love dearly is murdered or commits murder we don't really know how we would react to their death / sentencing.

Personally, I am vehemently pro-life. I won't even kill a damn bug, let alone advocate the death penalty. Lock them up and throw away the key, yes, but do not kill them.

But, if someone in my family was murdered and i had the choice between a life sentence and death for the accused, i really can't say what I'd do.

reply to post by Shar


Hello Shah

hard as thing sometimes are we are told to forgive otherwise we will not be forgiven

the casting of the first stone and all that is a good example, like others heart and intentions only the Lord knows the truth, don't want to sound like a doom monger but even if you saw someone in cold blood kill someone do you know the whole story previous to that?

I don't think we ever can.

about 15 years ago My mums boyfriend in a fit of jealousy cut her throat 6 times and she almost died, in the end he did just a 2 year jail sentence. at first it seem not enough to me as he almost killed my mum. That said i would like to do a test if you will.

think of a a close family member.... close your eyes and think of all the times you have spent with them. Now i want you to stop what you were feeling and change it. Can you really do it? at time we are at the mercy of our limited feelings and controls, this is why we must always call upon Jesus for strength.

I believe the death penalty contravenes Gods will for us and as hard as it is we should stop and forgive and pray for that person. I'm a strong believe that if you are not with God then you are become under the influence the world and satan as you not be under the protection of the Lord.

The Lord will alawys forgive those that seek it, shouldn't we do the same?

david

I am opposed to the death penalty and always have been. (We don't have it here in New Zealand).
There are 5 main reasons and all my reasons are based on what I see happening in the USA...
1. Too many innocent people are wrongly convicted.
2. The application of the death penalty is too uneven. Only a fraction of people who are commit capital offences are actually sentenced to death.
3. It is a barbaric and uncivilised penalty and no developed country should be so primitive.
4. Capital punishment is obviously not a deterrent!
5. Human institutions are imperfect which is why number 1 is true (too many innocent people are wrongly convicted,)
Vicky
AntiDeath penalty site
and
Reasons
and
Amnesty International