How do people NOT believe we are in a police state?

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by jamie83

 

A large percentage of the prison population is due to drugs. How is someone who is found in possesion of a controlled substance infringing on your rights?

When they break into my car to steal it, or when they rob me in the street at gun point, that infringes on my rights. When I am taxed to pay for their methadone treatments, that infringes on my rights.

Oh, and one more thing that often is overlooked.

When people elect a representative government, and that government enacts laws, violation of the laws is in and of itself an infringement on the rights of the people who elected their government.

So what percentage of people in this "police state" are in prison for casual drug use anyway? Do you know?

[edit on 14-6-2008 by jamie83]

reply to post by jamie83

The people in jail are there for the most part because THEY did something to infringe on the freedoms of their victims.

Incorrect. Most people in jail or in prison today are there for non-violent offenses.

My freedom to live a peaceful life without having to deal with some thug trying to steal my money or otherwise harm me has been protected.

There is nothing stopping me from beating you up and stealing your wallet.

reply to post by harvib


China does indeed execute more prisoners then the US, but not enough to have a significant impact on their overall prison-population figures.

reply to post by jamie83

When they break into my car to steal it, or when they rob me in the street at gun point, that infringes on my rights.

And that's why we have laws against breaking into cars and robbing people in the street at gunpoint.

When I am taxed to pay for their methadone treatments, that infringes on my rights.

So is paying for some little old lady's dial-a-ride to a doctor's appointment. Why are we wasting money on medical for seniors anyway? They're just gonna die soon. What a waste.

reply to post by En4cer


I assume you are a cop of some sort. While smoking crack is about the worst thing you could possibly do, you should be allowed to do it all you want. Drugs are just chemicals. If you inject anti-freeze into your arm it will most likely kill you, but people don't do it because they know they will die. Whether drugs are legal or not people are still going to use them.

Alcohol and nicotine are among the worst drugs you can do. If you suddenly made either of them illegal, you would have an increase in crime and violence because a black market is formed when you outlaw something that people want. In the case of nicotine you would see it in more highly concentrated and dangerous forms, and there would be "nicotine junkies" passed out in dark alleys with their lives in shambles because of their addiction. Instead nicotine is legal and you very rarely have crime associated with cigarettes. People are not killing each other to get them, because you can buy them at any gas station.

Look at the violence associated with alcohol when it was prohibited in the 1920's. Then it was legalized again and you saw a total change in the paradigm of alcohol related violence toward police and the level of money generated by gangsters. They were able to make a killing selling booze on the black market.

So my point is, while you are gung ho about the war on drugs, you should realize that it is the criminal justice system, and stupid laws that cause ALL the drug problems, and are at fault. If all drugs were legal we would save lots of taxpayer money on the legal process of prosecuting drug users and dealers.

Don't listen to me, keep on arresting kids for smoking pot, ruin their lives for something that is not nearly as bad for you as drinking beer.

You are a tool.

Iran is a police state.Syria is a police state.Any country where a citizen is incarcerated because of religious,political or otherwise is a police state.Iran censors its media as does Syria.Not only that it spreads know lies and rumors about other countries.Police forces in OUR countries help maintain law and order an idea that wont be tolerated in the Mid-east.Many theocratic states in the mid-east follow Sharia law which FORCES you to dress and act a certain way.Thats a police state.Women get gang raped and its the woman who gets punished.Thats a police state.Anyone who is incarcerated and executed without a lawyer or trial is a police state.
Enemy combatants who have been captured by Western forces are incarcerated until the war is over and the war is far from over.

Originally posted by downtown436
reply to post by En4cer

 

I assume you are a cop of some sort. While smoking crack is about the worst thing you could possibly do, you should be allowed to do it all you want. Drugs are just chemicals. If you inject anti-freeze into your arm it will most likely kill you, but people don't do it because they know they will die. Whether drugs are legal or not people are still going to use them.

Alcohol and nicotine are among the worst drugs you can do. If you suddenly made either of them illegal, you would have an increase in crime and violence because a black market is formed when you outlaw something that people want. In the case of nicotine you would see it in more highly concentrated and dangerous forms, and there would be "nicotine junkies" passed out in dark alleys with their lives in shambles because of their addiction. Instead nicotine is legal and you very rarely have crime associated with cigarettes. People are not killing each other to get them, because you can buy them at any gas station.

Look at the violence associated with alcohol when it was prohibited in the 1920's. Then it was legalized again and you saw a total change in the paradigm of alcohol related violence toward police and the level of money generated by gangsters. They were able to make a killing selling booze on the black market.

So my point is, while you are gung ho about the war on drugs, you should realize that it is the criminal justice system, and stupid laws that cause ALL the drug problems, and are at fault. If all drugs were legal we would save lots of taxpayer money on the legal process of prosecuting drug users and dealers.

Don't listen to me, keep on arresting kids for smoking pot, ruin their lives for something that is not nearly as bad for you as drinking beer.

You are a tool.

regardless of our faults in the West its better than living under Sharia law where people are shot for theft or get their hand chopped off because they stole a candy bar.People using drugs and alcohol are doing so by CHOICE not because someone forced them.SO they must deal with the consequences of that CHOICE.In addtion save me the arguement of women doing porn because once again they do so by CHOICE and not because of some law that they have to.

[edit on 14-6-2008 by Justice11]

reply to post by Justice11


How about a nation that incarcerates their people for economic reasons?

reply to post by Justice11

In addtion save me the arguement of women doing porn because once again they do so by CHOICE and not because of some law that they have to.

You might want to tell that to the court that just convicted Max Hardcore, took all his money and his business, and is about to send him to prison for a very long time.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Originally posted by SteveAndrew
I disagree, it speaks volumes about our judicial system. A nation where laws are placed on the people is a country where I'd like to live!

What laws severely limit us Americans?

Obscenity laws which end up denying a person of the right to free speech.

Weapon laws which have been used to prosecute individuals for being in possession of a simple pocket knife or baseball bat in a car.

Drug laws which were birthed around the turn of the century because of racist propaganda.

Federal Income Tax laws.

Mandatory prison sentences.

Three strike rules.

Death penalty.

No-Knock warrants.

etc. etc.

reply to post by caballero

caballero,
Please keep me informed on any information you find on how to counter this. I for one am sick of being treated like a number and would do anything with in my power to be come a free man. I heard a friend speak of a man he knew who declared himself a soverign(correct spelling?) citizen and had no license plate on his car or state issued I.D. and he paid no taxes. But I can not find my friend to speak further of this. So any help will be greatly appreciated!

reply to post by BroonStone


Any man can declare himself free but he must first appeal to twenty five of the Nobility.
You will plead your case to them (A particular injustice etc), and should 20 of the twenty five of the Nobility cease to act or respond in person you can declare yourself Sovereign.

A Free Man Loyal to his Queen and beholden to her judgments alone.

You will be obliged to serve her and none other. You will be obligated to obey Royal Decrees. You can now join the British Army or Navy as an Officer - due to your status, regardless of qualification.

That is just for those of us in Canada and Britain.

Americans have the 2nd Amendment, They are just to chicken# to use it.

I am tired, a bit drunk, and have to work in the morning. Normally I'd just not respond. But the OP's post is pretty inane. The US is a police state because...well people are prison? More people in prison per capita then most of the world...? OK. Bravo OP.

Lets not ask WHY the people are in prison?!

America may not be the stalwart of democracy and purity that it presents itself as to the rest of the world. BUT America is a WONDERFUL country.

I've smoked pot, drank alcohol, went to work, got paid, and had sex in the past week and guess what? I'm not spending the rest of my life in prison for any of that!

There is something called the Rule of Law. And honestly, it is a GOOD thing. Sometimes I get the feeling--reading posts here--that you guys yearn for anarchy.

OH. BTW to the OP. America IS NOT a police state.

Understand what's what before you start labeling things

reply to post by Justice11


I agree that it could be worse, but from the way things are going, it seems that it will be a lot worse. And by the way, most middle-eastern countries don't operate on Sharia law and deem it outdated. Only specters of the traditional law still lingers, and this is used by our media to incite the masses, to attack these "terrorists" who hate our "freedom". I remember for a good while, a lot of people thought that the purpose of war in Iraq was actually to bring "freedom" to Iraq! What bull. They are free to elect pre-chosen US approved officials.

Also, our media IS censored. Read the book entitled Into the Buzzsaw, written by journalists, some well known, some not, about their own experiences being censored by their superiors when they started to dig too deep into certain black subjects. One of them essentially wrote that because none of his previous stories had ever been censored, he truly believed in the idea of the free media and would ridicule anyone who believed otherwise, only to realize that it was only because none of his stories were actually important enough to be censored.

Just because you did not get arrested for little stuff that you did does not mean that the US is not becoming a police state. Seriously, most people are afraid of the police most of the time. The only time they are not afraid of the police is when they need help themselves. It is the fear of dealing with the police that keeps people in check.

Originally posted by Threadfall
I've smoked pot, drank alcohol, went to work, got paid, and had sex in the past week and guess what? I'm not spending the rest of my life in prison for any of that!

Wow thanks for that anecdote, that totally proved a point. Just because you got away with smoking some minuscule amount of weed doesn't mean some unlucky kid didn't get caught with an ounce and a half and got slapped with a felony. Like someone had mentioned before, it is some small, unjustified things now (in my opinion, marijuana deserves to be legal way more than alcohol), and then it will just be a little more and a little more. This seems likely to be the case in light of all these new legislations that are continuously whittling away at our freedoms in the name of "security" and more and more reports of unjustified police brutality.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by italkyoulisten]

A Prime Example of the Police State in action is Seat Belt laws...

You will be pulled over and fined/searched/harassed if you aren't wearing your seat belt.
But it's for your safety Right? The Police and Government care, Right?

Of course they do, which is why 40 MILLION children right the school bus TWICE each day and do not even have the option of a seatbelt - because there aren't any on school buses. Clearly, America Cares about its children's safety.

So why do we have Seat belt laws etc?

Could it be a part of the policy of Incrementalism? Or is it justification to harass and incriminate you whilst collecting revenue in the process?

Welcome to the Police State: Are you in the System yet? Are your Children?



[edit on 15-6-2008 by doctormcauley]

Good post.

All I would add is that I would define police state as a state where any individual could be arrested at any time. If you look up laws like disorderly conduct, you will see that they are written so nebulously that the police could arrest anyone for them if they so chose. Here is Pennsylvania's disorderly conduct law:


members.aol.com...

Phrases like tumultuous behavior, UNREASONABLE noise, obscene language, and creating a hazardous condition, all allow police to arrest people at any time. Every protest ever is usually loud, so everyone their could be arrested for unreasonable noise. Literally, if a cop says you were unreasonably loud,( even if you are in your own home) you can be arrested. I'm not saying all police would use this to arrest anyone they want, but as long as they have that option, we are living in a police state.

I was once arrested for disorderly conduct for arguing with my neighbor. Long story short, I was arguing with her son at school (I was 16) and she called me up to invite me over to her house to discuss it. When I went over, she started to call me names (nothing to bad), and I got angry and yelled at her that if she couldn't be mature I was done talking to her. She said she was going to call the police.

The cops then showed up to my house, and said the woman accused me of threatening her. I told the cop my version, so he took me to her, and she admitted that we just had an argument and she forgave me. The cop then gave us BOTH disorderly conducts. He said that this would teach us not to get the cops involved for petty arguments. I argued that I didn't see how I could get in trouble if even she admitted I didn't threaten her, and he said I was being a public disturbance.

I called a lawyer friend of mine, and he told me that I might as well not fight it because the way the law is written (at least in Pennsylvania) everyone could be found guilty of disorderly conduct. I fought it and lost, because the magistrate said i was a public disturbance, despite the fact that no neighbors, etc. complained.

I know that was just a long winded example of what has happened to me, but it shows that many laws including this one are written so vaguely that anyone can be found guilty.

reply to post by italkyoulisten


WOW!!

It feels so good to see that some people are still capable of knowing that they live in a police state.

I was really starting to worry about people in America.

Well for the people who can see what is going on try this on for size……….

Not only do you live in a police state but for about 20 years the Gov has been indoctrinating your kids to call the cops on their parents.

Yup they are brain washing on your kids with tricks strait out of the communist brain washing hand book.

Parents in America are so afraid of there children its mind blowing.

So if you think you live in a police state now just wait until these tyrannical heatless children grow up.

It is a about time that came up,that it is not more people breaking the law,but there are more laws to be broken.
It is getting to the point now that you should ask ,what is lawful?,since unlawful acts outnumber lawful ones.
It was illegal for you to be born without permission,I am sure...

Don’t think that just because you have yet to be accosted by government that the police state doesn’t exist. You’ve just been lucky. What goes around comes around, and so the only difference between you and those who have fallen under the weight of government oppression is time and opportunity. Any nation where you can be summarily declared an ‘enemy combatant’ by the executive branch, and then tortured and
poisoned, and your property, privacy and profession destroyed has gone beyond a mere police state.


"The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws."
-Ayn Rand