Voting records speak for themselves

reply to post by poet1b


A.) I never reference anything from the canddiates websites. of course its going to be biased.

B.) im tired of talking to you in circles. You refuse to believe what is right in front of you.

The key to it is get the lender and the borrower together. We know how hard that is because of identifying the lender, but there's ways to do it.

Instead of bailing out the home owners - the key is to get the lender and the borrower together. they key is to get them to talk. They key is to leave the lender to decide how to handle it. Which - once again - i agree with.


i urge anyone reading this to please GO HERE this article poitns out the obvious flaws in McCains overzealous attempt to trick us.

I have always been committed to the principle that it is not the duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big banks or small borrowers.

- John Mccain


followed up with:

McCain was asked whether the Federal Reserve went too far in extending a $30 billion credit line to finance the takeover of Bear Stearns by JPMorgan. “It’s a close call, but I don’t think so,” he said.


So yeah - its not okay to bail out banks. Unless you're John McCain


Watch It

reply to post by winged patriot


YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're a real shining patriot there, Winged Patriot.


....wait a tick...no you're not. You are the embodiment of the Conservative Base. Your ideals that stand for oppression and segregation, your attitudes that condone hatred and bigotry, are what is wrong with this country.

Im no liberal. I have the test papers to prove it!!!!

But i am also not going to vote for a sick old man who's in this for the money and the power that comes from being a president for big business.

Obama is the choice.

Also- think before you speak. your ignorance flows from your pores like the sweat from Obamas brow the day he was over there filling sandbags in Illinois.

You talk about the muslim religion and gay people like they are a plague to be avoided.


Preach on with that Bigotry. Preach on.

[edit on 23-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Yeah, forget what the candidate says on his own website as to what he plans on doing, and make up whatever twisted version of his policies you want to make, and present it as fact in a slick package. Thanks for confirming that my opinion of your opening statement was right.

So, in application of your technique towards Obama.

Obama want to force banks to loan people money who can't even budget their money from one paycheck to the next, and take out out interest loans on the paychecks they haven't ever received. Wouldn't that just turn our money into worthless paper? Looks to me like economically, Obama is much closer to GW than McCain, promoting debt and frivolous spending.

In addition, Obama wants to re-instate sharia law following your logic, and send all all nations money to Africa, and most likely embroil us in wars in Africa LIKE GW has embroiled us in wars in the Middle East.

Then again, maybe we could trust McCain's website as his actual policies goals, and it is clear that McCain is willing to use the government to help loan people money to buy a home, just as he was willing to loan Bear and Stearns money.

What happens when a home owner sits down and re-negotiates a mortgage when the house is no longer worth what is owed on the mortgate? If you don't think the mortgage holders don't have a very strongly invested interest in keeping the home owner making payments, even at a lower interest rate, then you don't understand business.

My work here is done, reading Obama's positions on the issues from his website, and reading McCains from his website, it is clear that McCains plans are better thought out, and far more fair to everyone. All of Obama's plans give less money to people as their incomes increase, while McCain plans on giving the same benefits to everyone.

Her is a snippet from and Obama quote that comes from the website you originally linked to and I posted earlier with the exact page on which the quote is offered.

Obama - We've got to open up bank branches. We've got to give people access to financing so that they're not going to a payday loan operation.

Now that is one crazy idea. Sounds like communism to me.

Working poor people struggling to get ahead deserve just as much assistance as poor people who aren't doing anything for themselves to get ahead, and Obama's plans all favor those who choose to live off of government welfare. No thanks.

I'll vote for McCain.

Let me try this color font technique again.

Obama - "We've got to open up bank branches. We've got to give people access to financing so that they're not going to a payday loan operation".

I'll vote for McCain

Hmm, the preview showed red font.

reply to post by poet1b


equal application:

I dont use obama's website
i don't use mccains website

i use other sources of information which capture what they say and what they've done.

In what way has my post talked about what they WOULD do, in a manner that doesnt reflect upon what they already have done?

To use their website..... dont make me laugh man

They tell you what they want to do
they tell you want you want to hear
so you get all excited (like you are with McCain)
and you run out and vote, because you arent up to the challenge of denying ignorance.

You'd rather take them at their word for it, instead of looking into what they've done in their past.

Not me
I'd rather base my assumptions of their future BASED on their past.

Sorry that we see things differently, but just because i think a mans future is outlined by his past, doesnt mean im throwing propaganda.

its funny

in the past 5 or 6 or whatever posts you've had on here, its been nothing but trolling.
you havent offered up one single piece of opinion other than "hey dude, this is propaganda"

If you're so against my decision - why not post some pro's and con's of yourself?

Its quite simple really - i did provide a link to my source, and anything that my link says can easily be backed up by 100 million website replies on google.

And yeah - i gave a link to google at the top
and a link to issues2000 at the bottom

"if you dont believe me you can look for yourself so - you take what i say about the candidate, you go to my link (google) and you type in my claim of what candidates said. It produces results that back up what i say they say.

If thats too much work for you

(which it obviously is, since you only visit mccains website for your reference material)

then you go simply go to issues2000 link (at the bottom of the OP in case you "missed it") and you can review what i say there.

I know that sounds like a LOT of work, but maybe you'll learn a thing or two about the world you live in.

[edit on 24-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by poet1b


yeah, when your'e using the (color) tags, you can't have any ; ' " such characters in there. So i just leave out punctuation.

its weird, not sure why it does it, but it does the same thing for (size) as well

Thanks for the comment on the color fonts. It's funny, but the preview shows the colors, but when the post goes to the site, the colors come out with the code in normal color.


I go to both candidates websites, and based my opinions on what each candidate does, what they say in interviews, and what they do in real life.

Originally, I planned on supporting Obama if Hillary did not win, but after doing my research, I changed my opinion. Obama's life, and the people he surrounds himself with, do not support the hope and change message he delivers. In addition, I find Obama's world view/dreams to be very idealistic and very unrealistic. While making rehearsed speechs, Obama comes off pretty good, but what he says in answering questions tends to lack substance, and jumps all over the place, not really saying anything, but implying a lot of crazy concepts like the one I have quoted above.

I see McCain as having moved to the right to win the republican nomination, and that is playing the game of politics, but I also see that in McCain's senate career, he is much more moderate, and that is how I think he will do things as President.

I have posted my logic and the reasons why I support McCain along with the facts about his statements that back my view, and why I think his ideas are better than Obama's. You have yet to counter my logic in my position in supporting McCain, and calling my posts trolling is not a logical argument. Not only have to failed to show how my view of McCain's policies are wrong, you have failed to defend the strange policies that Obama puts out there.

I don't understand how you fail to see the major flaws in Obama's platform. I also think that constantly claiming McCain is just like GW is really just based on stereotyping. One white conservative is not just like another.

Originally posted by poet1b
Thanks for the comment on the color fonts. It's funny, but the preview shows the colors, but when the post goes to the site, the colors come out with the code in normal color.

yeah for some reason it works in preview, but not in post. If you go remove the punctuation marks, it'll show up as a colored text.

I don't understand how you fail to see the major flaws in Obama's platform. another.

I do see flaws in Obama's platform. I've outlined a few of his flaws, posted as "cons" in this very thread.
They are pro's and con's based on my opinion. I posted for each candidate, and then weighed in. Want to know my ultimate deciding factor for voting for Obama?

Pro --Protect consumers with Credit Card Bill of Rights. (Feb 2008)

This one may very well be the reason i vote for Barack. Credit Card companies are the most corrupt and vile corporation in our country. Its time someone did something about ALL of them.

Thats an issue that hits close to home for me, because when i was 18, i made credit card mistakes. I've since paid for them, but i had to deal with the non-sense from the credit card companies, and i know how much they break the law. So - to me - this is an important issue.

McCain has been absent to voting sessions more than any other senator - by a large margin. Tells me he doesnt take his job seriously.

I also think that constantly claiming McCain is just like GW is really just based on stereotyping. One white conservative is not just like

Im not comparing them on skin color and political structure. How is McCain like GW?

EXTREMELY Flawed domestic policies


Flip Flops on energy exploration -- side note -- I agree that we should drill for our own oil. i've made that no secret. But my issue with mcCain on this one was: before he was running for president, He was against it . now that he's running for president, he's all for it. Flipology. im against it. Especially when someone does it as much as McCain.


McBush 1

McBush 2

McBush 3

i could go on all day - really - but if you want more, you can simply read the results found Here

[edit]

Another thing i just thought of about McCain/Bush ideologies.
If we've spent - what - hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq (correct me if im wrong) then that means this money was stockpiled from somewhere. This money was setting in an account, or will be setting in an account, in order for them to spend it, or atleast part of it.

Anyways: If that money already existed, why has it not been applied to home? Why has Bush and McCain constantly been for FOREIGN support, and done virtually nothing at home? Bush tax cuts? Well - thanks, but that homeless guy i see on my way to work every morning didnt get one. I still remember the first time i bought that guy breakfast. His old job, before he lost his wife/kids in a car accident? He was a mailman. A federal employee, who i assume, became homeless because of mental issues steming from the traumatic events of his life.

A federal employee who didnt get the assistance he needed. An ex-federal employee who's now homeless, with no money, food, or shelter.

Why couldnt the hundreds of billions of dollars we ALREADY HAD have been spent on guys like this?

Sure - i do my own little part - i dont buy him food EVERY day. I don't give him money EVERY day - im sure there's more i could be doing to make his life better. But i work to support me and my family. I dont mean to sound cold-hearted, but i thin you get my drift.

That drift leads to this: It should not be up to the American people to help out the homeless/needy. It should be up to the American government.

They have no problems helping the homeless and needy in Iraq and Afghanistan. In the phillipeans (sp?) and other places. They have no qualms with spending billions to help other countries, as long as they get to build a new super-tank and battleship.

THAT is my biggest reason for despising McBush. They vote the same. They think the same. They act the same. And give Bush another 15 years, and they'll even look the same.



[edit on 24-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

[edit on 24-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Short on time, but, in response

Linking to a democratic site's negative portrayal of McCain isn't exactly credible. These people are paid to make McCain look bad. While they point out McCain voting against certain ideological bills, they don't try to give McCain's reasoning, and if memory serves me correctly, while those bills were good ideas they were poorly written and heavily laden with pork barrel spending, and McCain was right to vote against those bills.

McCain's position to expand the military isn't nearly as bad as Obama's efforts to send more money to the U.N. as charity. Most of that money winds up buying weapons and propping up abusive third world dictatorships and oppressing the people of those countries. I would rather spend the money on our military than the militarys of third world oppressive regimes.

I would rather balance a democratic congress with a moderate republican.

The whole use of the term flip flop has gotten to be overly used. Hey, you have Obama's fip flop on government funded campaigns.

reply to post by poet1b


I never said Obama didnt flip flop. Infact i've said he has. But i also replied with "you gota choose the lesser of two evils for the greater good" I agree MORE with Obama, than i do with McCain. I gave my reasons


i wish i would have sent U2U's to people on this beforehand, because i KNEW you would say "democratic websites are biased"

Every source of information used in my last post is biased. I used it as an example of the type of arguing i see you doing

I post non-biased information from issues2000.org and you call it propaganda
i post biased information from democrats.com or whatever, and you call it biased. So basically

what you're saying is: If the source doesnt say McCain is right, then it [the source] is wrong. That is a horrible line of thinking, IMO.

Also - any source posted in the entirety of ATS should not be treated as gospel. You should use the source that is posted as a platform to launch your own investigation.

You say they dont give reasons for him voting one way or another. So you use the FACT that he VOTED a certain way, and find out why. I've found out why on a lot of issues, and i disagree with him BEACUSE just a few years ago, he gave an entirely different picture of things

a few years ago, McCain was different, 100%, from the McCain of today

cause and effect

the effect is McCain has totally gone against everything he stood for a few years ago

The cause?

Well - while thats up for general speculation, the only REAL discernable thing i can think of is that he's running for President, and wont get the backing of the democrats who will back a democrat, so he needs the backing of the republican party. Thats called flipflopping. If its overused,then its because McCain does it too much.

[edit on 24-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Mmm, you have a bad habit of mis-stating what other people say, I never posted here that issues2000.org was propaganda, I said the site was anonymous, and I also stated that the site was very thorough.

While McCain has moved to the right, his proposals and stances on the issues are still far superior to Obama's stance on the issues. I have clearly pointed out in this thread how crazy some of Obama's ideas are.

When it comes to the Iraqi war, Obama's position is lose lose. Telling our enemy we will pull out as soon as possible no matter what the situation in Iraq is only encourages them. Telling our enemy we are willing to fight for a hundred years is much more likely to bring them to the bargaining table for a reasonable solution, especially when we clearly dominate in the conflict.

I have no desire to see a portion of our nations GDP obligated to the third world dictators who make up a large portion of the UN as Obama wants to do. Obama's world visions, just like his domestic policies, are lunacy, idealistic nonsense that has been shown by decades of failure not to work.

So i'm wondering if anyone has been able to come up with any more ideas for the "voting history" between the two candidates?

If you ask me - you can't base your judgements off of anything either candidate says right now, as its all a dog and pony show for attention and votes....so why not talk about things they've done and said in the past...

To add a personal opinion to something real fast:





This story really makes me angry.

In Manchester last night, there was just one reporter and one photographer waiting for McCain as his plane -- a white, blue and gold Boeing 737-400 emblazoned with his campaign slogan, "Reform, Prosperity, Peace" -- touched down on the Wiggins Airways tarmac

It shows the idiocy and the stupidity of the MSM. This is not journalism, this is favortism, and it sickens me to the point i want to call McCain and apologize for the actions of my fellow countrymen and women.


[edit on 7/23/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Nothing huh?

ok, let me get this pot stirred then.

McCain says




Dont police Internet crime go after money to reduce crime. (Oct 2007)


Gee. There's a novel idea. Sounds quite "liberal" to me. As if the presence of money is going to shy away an internet criminal. Please. Look out people McCain will let them steal your identity and get away - scott free.





Voted NO on restoring 550,000,000 in funding for Amtrak for 2007. (Mar 2006)


There's another great idea, McBush. Lets make the American people suffer a little more, so you and your big oil buddies can rake in the moola

Nice call. Lets be a little more inconspicuous next time :shk:



mccain said



Follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell. (May 2007)


I guess he means as long as the gates of hell lie within the borders of Iraq or Iran?





On gun control, Here's John McCain:



Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership


Ok....so in order to differentiate a criminal from a citizen, then the citizen must FIRST commit a gun crime. Typically, murder right? Isnt the prime directive of law to prevent crimes from happening, instead of existing soley to prosecute the aftermath?



Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites and videos.

yeah - cause i seen just last week, someone used a website to murder 17 people. It was similar to the movie "the ring" only a lot better acting...since ya know, it was real life and all.

perhaps, instead of slinging mud like a group of adults SHOULDNT, we should go back to what matters when it comes to politicians.

If you were the hiring manager for mccdonalds, would one of your requirements be a PhD?

No.

You're making that argument for politicians by talking about who wears american flag boxers or breifs. Its stupid.

lets try this thread

you dont have to use colors if you dont want to ....

but you can talk about all the bullscrap you want to about the candidates. Nothing says more about them than how they've voted in the past.

OBama has a voting record, though most conservatives i know wouldnt know that because they get their information from fox news.

If im wrong - prove me wrong. sources are here

lets discuss some real issues?


[edit on 8/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]