Intelligent people less likely to believe in God

I think alot of people grow up around religion and feel pressured into it as I was. My grandfather was a high school science teacher for 25 years and he never had to go to church. But we did? I defied my parents and grandparents on the subject and started reading more about astronomy and astrophysics.

Eventually I learned how destructive religion has been over the centuries.. Not just because of religious idealism but because of man's faults. When people put faith before all, any idealism they believe in trumps any common sense and they are then willing to believe more and more of the hocus pocus religious stuff they talk about in church.

When you put all the faith-based B.S. aside and objectively learn about the truth of world history closely, I think anyone can see how lame religion is from the ground up and how evil the minds of men can be as a result of blindly believing they are right and others are wrong. I have always believed and said time after time here on ATS that religion is a man-made creation and is, therefore, also prone to the same faults of man. That's why we have all these different religions, religious sects, and faith-based idaeologies which are all different yet clash philosphically.

It doesn't make sense to blindly follow a faith-based ideaology after you have learned through years of learning how flawed and blind they all are.

-ChriS

Originally posted by BlasteR
I think alot of people grow up around religion and feel pressured into it as I was.

It works both ways, BlasteR.

You can be pressured into Academic studies just as easily as you can be pressured into Religious studies.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


That may be true but you can't deny that his briliant mind did open the door for science. With science we have shown where the fabled garden would have been because of the finding of the first homosapien fossils. Science has shown that evolution does exist and played a part in our creation. Now the man who has intelligence would say that god must not exsist because of these facts. But a man with faith and intelligence might say god willed it, and I wish to take the point of the philosopher, and say, how long is a day for god? Or will it change the world to prove or disprove the existance of god?



[edit on 12-6-2008 by acewilliams]

Originally posted by acewilliams

now the man who has intelligents would say that god must not exsist because of these facts, but a man with faith and intelligents mite say god willed it, and i wish to take the point of the philosipher and say how long is a day for god

The man with both faith and intelligence would not rule out the possibility, true.

I'll also point out that things like 'days' a terrestrial by nature, and as such God probably doesn't have 'days', if he does indeed exist in some capacity or the other.

Hopefully this isn't a surprise to anyone.

Only a fool could be led to believe there is a giant invisible man in the sky who controls everything, and only a bigger fool could actually believe that giant invisible man wants puny little humans to go to church and fork over some cash.

If god created everything, why do churches need money to pay the bills? One would think the almighty would provide for those who seek to spread his word.

I have thought about why people fall on faith as a means to justify existence. Intelligence cannot be pointed out as a significant factor since people in general, together in a group, whether a rock concert, political rally or religious ceremony all tune to mass hypnosis of the focus. That focus could be the lead singer, the political appointee or god.

I think its the thrill of a mass movement with people singing, clapping and glorifying.

reply to post by acewilliams


when you can prove evolution you can bring this argument to the table. all the evidence for evolution is random fosils that have a slight resimblance to one another. it full of missing links and assumptions much like religion. and if im not mistaken it was the guy who came up the the theroy of evolution that said some thing along the lines of, "their is too much wonder and beauty for their not to have been a devine creator."

Just playing Athiest's Advocate here, but the Telegraph also promotes a hearty story about the wholesome and beneficial value of the Carbon Trust. www.telegraph.co.uk.../money/exclusions/supplements/carbonaction/nosplit/index.xml

whoof. Things that make you go waaaaaaah. Just a point of perspective, folks, whilst we wallow in our relative intelligence.

[dang, that blows the whole dramatic effect, IF I have to correct the link because I wasn't bright enough to do it right, doesn't it ]

[edit on 12-6-2008 by argentus]

Originally posted by slackerwire

If god created everything, why do churches need money to pay the bills? One would think the almighty would provide for those who seek to spread his word.

Actually, that has more to do with the goings-on of feudal europe than paying the bills.

It may well be the case that Christianity is infact susceptible to far less blame than it has received in recent years.

Did the possibility ever occur to you that what we see now as christianity may be a direct result of feudal lords placing far too much emphasis on obeying the church?

Perhaps the Church itself has been manipulated at one point...

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


And those lords would emphasize obeying the church why?

Think the church is merely an innocent bystander?

Okay, I'm somewhat vindicated, in that the sub-link routes back to the primary page.

I personally don't see any conflict between spirituality and science. Call me a wingnut. Go ahead, you'll feel better. Different languages, similar phenomena.

Isn't this psychologist the same one who was intent on making a correlation between intelligence and race? Name seem familiar. Not that that negates his study, but seems an extrodinarily difficult thing to study. His control group must've been OUT of CONTROL. ha

reply to post by slackerwire


Like many innocent bystanders, it can be brainwashed into believing something contrary to it's nature.

Oh, and the fuedal lords would place emphasis on obeying the church, because it was seen as chivalric to place God as one's Lord of Lords.

Perhaps... we are victims of our own inbred desire to best the other man - after all, those were the times in which warring states would compete in one way or the other - who is to say that they would not compete in such a way that proving one's faith was the means to show who the better man was?

reply to post by DaleGribble


Man, did you open a bubbling cauldron of puss with that statement. ALL? Listen, I don't care to derail this current thread with off-topic comments, so this will be it..... unless you choose to open one of your own. If I get the off-topic mod slap, then so be it, because your statement was rife with absolute slanted hyperbole. The evolutionary record demonstrates a gradual (although sometimes fairly sharp in the broad spectrum of things) change in various species. I personally don't believe that God made hundreds, no thousands, of varieties of species. It is science. It has monumental strata of evidence. Understand this...... I don't see how it conflicts with religious beliefs, unless, of course, you subscribe to the absurd notion that the world and universe are a mere thousands of years old. Perhaps you and I should U2U about this.

Okay. My apologies to the OP. I will endeavor to stay on topic or not at all.

reply to post by DaleGribble


My bad. "Puss" was way over the top. No sense in starting a debate with someone, be it U2U or otherwise with loaded words.

My apologies. Mail if you choose. We'll discuss.

cheers

Originally posted by Maxmars

Professor Lynn, who has provoked controversy in the past with research linking intelligence to race and sex, said university academics were less likely to believe in God than almost anyone else.

The grain of salt.


Sorry people, this sounds like wishful thinking.

True faith may be amongst the highest expression of intelligence, after love of course.

No apologies, you don't have to agree, it comes from my gut.

[edit on 12-6-2008 by Maxmars]

And as other things which originate from ones gut, there is no indication of validity.

reply to post by AKnight


I agree, atheism does not provide a person with intelligence. There have been too many intelligent people who where religous. Like Einstien, and Hitler, and George W. Bush, and many others. But the point, is that intelligence can not be assigned to any faction, religous or not. Those who say that only their religion is is right, are wrong; and those who say that any religion is wrong, are also wrong. The fact is that religion brings hope to those who might otherwise give up. Anything or anyone who can inspire like that must be respected but not followed blindly.

Originally posted by Peepers
I have thought about why people fall on faith as a means to justify existence. Intelligence cannot be pointed out as a significant factor since people in general, together in a group, whether a rock concert, political rally or religious ceremony all tune to mass hypnosis of the focus. That focus could be the lead singer, the political appointee or god.

I think its the thrill of a mass movement with people singing, clapping and glorifying.

The most fundamental reason for faith is actually due to logic. For example, when we are in a really tight situation, let's just say we are oh I dunno, being crucified. In those situations, the mental faculty will need a reason to go on functioning, or else snap under the strain. Without a "faith" that either "this is for a purpose" or that "A higher power will save me", the mental faculty breaks down.

Of course I used an extreme situation, but we see this in 12 step programs all the time. An addict is twice as likely to recover if they believe in a higher power who can help them. The fact that there is or isn't a higher power doesn't really mean anything, what means something is that the mind has something to chew on, so as to continue without breaking under the strain of a nihilistic future.


Faith has the same reason for being as does ego, survival. Think about the "death bed" conversions we hear about so much. When do people start believing in God the most? When they feel they are about to meet their end, and all other avenues of logic point to an end. The mind has a *real* hard time accepting it's own demise, because it is made of genetic code which is programed with one priority "continue". So, people start getting religion right before they die, quite often. Not all, but the vast majority.

Survival is the ultimate reason for everything that is an attribute of life.

www.telegraph.co.uk...'less-likely-to-believe-in-God'.html


But the conclusions - in a paper for the academic journal Intelligence - have been branded "simplistic" by critics.

Ya think? This same Professor has established that men are more intelligent than woman too [ Sex differences in intelligence and brain size: A paradox resolved ] *hears the atheists' back-slappin' slowly fading away*

Of course, according to his paper here maybe us believers are just malnourished.

A blogger has been disseminating the paper here

Some highlights:

Granted that he has shown some limited correlation, but this shows nothing close to causation. In fact, these statistics are more than adequately covered when you factor in self selection of the groups, motivation for unbelief and an alternative reason for the correlation.


[...]


Notice that Dr. Lynn doesn't examine the IQ of those in religious service. If he had, he may have found many of those highly intelligent religious people that he found absent in academia.



[...]


Specifically, are people atheists BECAUSE they have a high IQ or could there be some other factor involved?


[...]


In short, rather than seeing atheism as correlating directly with intelligence, it is more likely that it is INVERSELY proportional to wisdom.

A bit of cherry-pickin' and seeing what one wants to see. I'm sure nobody will fall for it though, certainly not those intelligent-type folks who'll look into this paper and its conclusions, and how they were arrived at.

"Well duh!"

" I agree, great post "

" And there you have it folks, scientific evidence."


"personality/mindset when it comes to religion,that completely negates any common sense"


Y'all wouldn't happen to be atheists, would ya? You guys are precious. Oh, and smart.... really really smart.

reply to post by Rasobasi420


Actually, The most intelligent individuals do not believe in organized religion but they do believe in an unspecified creator. Good try. tho. Its very cool that one mans research proves you right... I could interview 20 potheads and ask the benefits of smoking pot and get something really positive out of it. Its all in perception... Everything is what you make it... Within Reason.

It would also seem that there are quite a few intelligent people making money off of religion. So, in that respect, they believe in it.

I have heard that many intelligent people can sometimes be in such deep thought that they are disconnected or missing their common sense.