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Ron Paul Calls it Quits

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posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by doctormcauley
 


doctor, I will not belabor this, here in this thread, except to (hopefully) disabuse you, and others, of the pathetic attempts to denigrate something by calling it a theory. Please look up the definition.

And....did you say Ru Paul....oops, I mean, Ron Paul 'suspended' his campaign....hmmmm...just like Billary...I mean Hillary...??




posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Nah, Hillary stepped out, released all her Delegates, the whole shebang.

And glad to see there's someone else on this godforsaken site tha understands what a scientific theory is.



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Fox u didnt answer is slavery A moral issue?



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Quoting the MSM to prove Ron Paul has called it quits no longer will suffice.

They are disingenuous - they lost all credibility when they became a propaganda tool of the Bush administration.

They tried the exact same tactic three months ago and you were on ATS touting same disinfo then.

Good Day to You, Sir

[edit on 13-6-2008 by doctormcauley]



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by doctormcauley
 


doctor....huh?!?

If you accuse me of disinfo, laughable as it is, then you can accuse anyone.

In fact, "'j'accuse, monsieur"!!

And, thank you for your post. Now, good day, adieu, to you!



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


It is.

However a slave has no choice in his servitude, and is offered no method to change his position. If he attempts to escape, the best he can hope for is to be brought back as a prisoner.

You are not comparable to a slave, and that straw man is as offensive as it is nonsensical

You can move to another nation with a tax system you prefer
You can elect politicians that will give you a tax system you prefer
You can vote on referendums to alter tax policy
You can freely protest tax policy, as you are doing now
You can even invest a little cash in hiring someone who knows the ins and outs of the tax code, thus affording you a fully legal way to "beat the system"

Taxes are a user's fee for a civilized society.



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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Terrible news for all of us. Ron Paul was the only candidate who could help this flailing government correct the mistakes and get our economy back on track. It is always a shame when the best man for the job gets forced out and strong armed by the dirty crooks who are in charge of such things.

I will be staying home on election day 08 and drinking heavily. Casting a vote for either of the other two candidates would be, in my mind, voting for the demise of my own country. God help us all.



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Taxes are a moral issue. You do not own the work I do.

And stop spreading your irresponsible banter around the internet. Just becuase you are incapable of taking care of yourself does not mean that the rest of us are looking to pay for your mistakes in life.

You really think independent contractors would have been building even more bases and bridges overseas on our tab during a Ron Paul presidency? Get real, the whole point of his campaign was to stop American imperialism, and pull the troops out of EVERY single nation and bring them home.

In regards to your pretty little chart you have there. Maybe if you weren't constantly sucking the government nipple you could pull your eyes away long enough to understand that before one single dime goes to any program you depend on to survive, the Interest on our debts is paid down first. Just the interest, not the principle. Then we borrow money to cover the remaining cost. thats why we borrow 3 billion dollars a day, just to cut Social Security checks. Oh, but your right, this is obviously the most efficient way of doing things. Hell, I know the government never misuses it's power, or the money they steal from me.


I don't need to be governed, and neither do you. If you had half a clue about government expenditures and finances, then you would probably already know that the US Government(thats you and me by the way) is in a massive state of debt. To the tune of over 9 trillion in public debts, about 24 trillion in Social Security, and about 30 trillion in Medicare, and thats just the largest of them. Oh yeah, Plus we have a 14 billion dollar a year trade deficit, meaning we consume 14 billion dollars more than we put out, yearly.

So tell me, whats the all powerful, wise, and knowing Central Government going to do to fix this one? End the war? Great! I'm with that, that'll shave 3.5 trillion off of the 63 trillion dollar debt. The we can slash defense spending bring it down to 1/4 of what it is now. That'll save you about 500 million. Oh, but you want "Universal Health Care" right? Well you can go ahead and add another trillion(I shudder to think of how much nationalized health care will cost ten years down the road.). And we have to deal with "global poverty", might as well erase all those gains we just made.

I like to know, by what greater wisdom do you abandon the teachings of James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Thomas Paine, and George Washington?

Is it the wisdom of Bill Clinton? The wisdom of George Bush? Or the Messiah Barack Obama? Perhaps it is the mountain of knowledge Locked within Hillary Clinton's brain?


We are 275,000 dollars in the hole for every man woman and child in this country. Where's the Central Government going to get that money? Gonna Tax the rich? They don't even live here anymore, they packed up and moved overseas, and took their companies with them. Probably becuase they could smell the hoards of envious looters begging the Government to take what they earned away from them, and distribute it to a person who produces nothing. Your only option is to run the FED's printing presses and devalue the dollar even more, making inflation run through the roof, or default on the debt. Choose wisely.

Our combined debts are larger than the combined GDP of every country on the entire planet. In layman's term that means that even the world does not produce enough to pay off the debts our "modern and sophisticated" Central Government incurred. Never mind that they are the ones that drove the fracken debt up. And don't act like this is something new, this is 50+ years of bad debts and stupid choices finally coming home to roost. Get a clue, The United States is finished, and it was solely the fault of your grand and wise Central Government. Certainly wasn't mine, I voted for Ron Paul.



[edit on 13-6-2008 by aravoth]

[edit on 13-6-2008 by NGC2736]



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:09 PM
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TheRepublic replied sarcastically,

> Yeah, those regulatory agencies are doing a great job for all the tax money they steal from me these days.

From the far left, I agree with you 110%.

For me, the problem is corruption.

There are Economies of Scale which make it cheaper for a big organization (like the government) to perform certain functions, such as highway maintenance, defense, and consumer protection.

But when the unions have evolved into organizations that protect [for instance, highway workers'] rights to fair-pay for little-or-shoddy work, or the threat of terrorism is twisted entirely for the profits of corporations, then we all have a problem. It's corruption, corruption, corruption.

But our parents paid for our highways in the "old system," and our armed services saved the world for democracy a few times before. The question is what problem in the system allowed our government to get turned into a system for lining unscrupulous peoples' pockets with our tax payments, and how can we fix the problem and take the government back for ourselves.

Contrarily, throwing out the whole system is a waste of a system that has proven it can do a lot of good for everyone. Maybe not so much recently...

It's time to go back and fix the problem. That will mean reworking a percentage of the system as it exists, which already includes a lot of conscientious government workers who aren't so concerned about getting rich as they are living in peace and serving the public with Your best interests in mind. People that perform 10 minutes of work per day for a day's salary or get friendly with government to assure non-competitive "contracts" should be fired or thrown in jail, respectively.

My concern is that so much power and money has been concentrated in the hands of so few, especially during the last two presidential terms, and systems for rehabilitating corruption have been dismantled, I'm pessimistic that there's still time to turn the problem around. For instance, I think the President is planning to declare Marshal law and cancel the elections in November -- I think that's why he's been so jovial lately.

And that would be messy. If I find any right-wing lunatics with a collection of automatic machine guns, I'll be standing right beside him helping him out. Although, I think the Military will be pretty much ignoring the President if he does that, and he's sent most of the National Guard overseas, anyway.

Back to reality, I don't think we have a choice but to fight. I don't agree that giving up is the answer. Recapture your government, don't walk away from it and throw it away.

You're on the internet, so do the research. You can do it sitting down in the air-conditioning. If your elected official isn't doing anything creative, then kick him out and vote for someone who's not so indebted. You didn't do it during the last election, so do it next time. (Soapbox may not apply to TheRepublic, to whom I am replying.)

And now, it's time for me to go back to fixing radios for the Army.



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by mybigunit
 


It is.

However a slave has no choice in his servitude, and is offered no method to change his position. If he attempts to escape, the best he can hope for is to be brought back as a prisoner.

You are not comparable to a slave, and that straw man is as offensive as it is nonsensical

You can move to another nation with a tax system you prefer
You can elect politicians that will give you a tax system you prefer
You can vote on referendums to alter tax policy
You can freely protest tax policy, as you are doing now
You can even invest a little cash in hiring someone who knows the ins and outs of the tax code, thus affording you a fully legal way to "beat the system"

Taxes are a user's fee for a civilized society.


When you work and are taxed so much that you can only afford to feed yourself and house yourself you might as well be a slave. It may be a slave without the whips but working for free is a slave and you can spin it in any direction you want. How can you leave if you dont have the money to leave because it all goes to taxes then its like slavery isnt it? Also when your government is run by a bank and 22% of my taxes go to pay interest on borrowed money for world intervention. I mean I can go on and on but the government works for me I dont work for them and if they are spending all sorts of money on crap they shouldnt then I shouldnt have to give them a dime. That money is better spent when I get to spend it I EARNED THE MONEY!!!!!. Go to another country? I shouldnt have to go to another country America was founded on small government & individual freedoms. I cant vote on tax policy because I dont get a good choice on a representative that represents a good tax policy and the people like we are talking about now Ron Paul are completely shut out of the equation since minute 1.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by mybigunit]



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Then isn't the problem not taxes, but corrupt officials colluding with big business to screw you for their own enrichment?

Smart government, not small government



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by aravoth
 


Bravo well said. I tried saying similar but you beat me to it and yours is so much more eloquent. Keep up the good work and star for you



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by aravoth
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Taxes are a moral issue. You do not own the work I do.

And stop spreading your irresponsible banter around the internet. Just becuase you are incapable of taking care of yourself does not mean that the rest of us are looking to pay for your mistakes in life.

You really think independent contractors would have been building even more bases and bridges overseas on our tab during a Ron Paul presidency? Get real *SNIP*, the whole point of his campaign was to stop American imperialism, and pull the troops out of EVERY single nation and bring them home.

In regards to your pretty little chart you have there. Maybe if you weren't constantly sucking the government nipple you could pull your eyes away long enough to understand that before one single dime goes to any program you depend on to survive, the Interest on our debts is paid down first. Just the interest, not the principle. Then we borrow money to cover the remaining cost. thats why we borrow 3 billion dollars a day, just to cut Social Security checks. Oh, but your right, this is obviously the most efficient way of doing things. Hell, I know the government never misuses it's power, or the money they steal from me.


I don't need to be governed, and neither do you. If you had half a clue about government expenditures and finances, then you would probably already know that the US Government(thats you and me by the way) is in a massive state of debt. To the tune of over 9 trillion in public debts, about 24 trillion in Social Security, and about 30 trillion in Medicare, and thats just the largest of them. Oh yeah, Plus we have a 14 billion dollar a year trade deficit, meaning we consume 14 billion dollars more than we put out, yearly.

So tell me, whats the all powerful, wise, and knowing Central Government going to do to fix this one? End the war? Great! I'm with that, that'll shave 3.5 trillion off of the 63 trillion dollar debt. The we can slash defense spending bring it down to 1/4 of what it is now. That'll save you about 500 million. Oh, but you want "Universal Health Care" right? Well you can go ahead and add another trillion(I shudder to think of how much nationalized health care will cost ten years down the road.). And we have to deal with "global poverty", might as well erase all those gains we just made.

I like to know, by what greater wisdom do you abandon the teachings of James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Thomas Paine, and George Washington?

Is it the wisdom of Bill Clinton? The wisdom of George Bush? Or the Messiah Barack Obama? Perhaps it is the mountain of knowledge Locked within Hillary Clinton's brain?


We are 275,000 dollars in the hole for every man woman and child in this country. Where's the Central Government going to get that money? Gonna Tax the rich? They don't even live here anymore, they packed up and moved overseas, and took their companies with them. Probably becuase they could smell the hoards of envious looters begging the Government to take what they earned away from them, and distribute it to a person who produces nothing. Your only option is to run the FED's printing presses and devalue the dollar even more, making inflation run through the roof, or default on the debt. Choose wisely.

Our combined debts are larger than the combined GDP of every country on the entire planet. In layman's term that means that even the world does not produce enough to pay off the debts our "modern and sophisticated" Central Government incurred. Never mind that they are the ones that drove the fracken debt up. And don't act like this is something new, this is 50+ years of bad debts and stupid choices finally coming home to roost. Get a clue, The United States is finished, and it was solely the fault of your grand and wise Central Government. Certainly wasn't mine, I voted for Ron Paul.



[edit on 13-6-2008 by aravoth]


This ain't high school son, you're not being graded for how much paper you use, but for content. But thank you for the stream of consciousness and the ad hominem all the same.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

[edit on 13-6-2008 by NGC2736]



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


But when you give the government the money that is what they are going to do. Its like when you give a crack addict crack they are probably going to smoke it arent they?



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


But when you give the government the money that is what they are going to do. Its like when you give a crack addict crack they are probably going to smoke it arent they?


So, let me see if I understand this right.
You want all the good things government provides (National defense, an election system, infrastructure, more stuff than I can list, really)
You want none of the bad stuff government provides (corruption, collusion, power creep)
...And you don't want to pay a single red cent for it either way.

Does that about sum it up?



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox


So, let me see if I understand this right.
You want all the good things government provides (National defense, an election system, infrastructure, more stuff than I can list, really)
You want none of the bad stuff government provides (corruption, collusion, power creep)
...And you don't want to pay a single red cent for it either way.

Does that about sum it up?


Nope that isnt how I play. You can have a good national defense without spending 1 trillion dollars a year for army bases and nation building over seas. I already told you above you cant get rid of ALL taxes but you can get rid of income tax to start and when we get somehow fix the social security and medicaid we can drop that too. Its good to have police but we dont need anywhere near the amount of police we have on the street. BTW that is covered by property taxes not the national government. Roads you can have a small gas tax like what we have now to fix roads and bridges. But instead of that money going to fix the roads it goes to the dept of transportation and just disappears in the big government bureaucracy.

I can go on and on. The governments job is to provide national defense, coin and set the value of money, do infrastructure, that is really about it. It doesnt cost 3 trillion dollars a year to do these things. Really the tariffs, gas taxes, and the other sales taxes can cover all this you do not need an income tax and inflation tax and all the other big government taxes to do this.


Oh Edit to add....we need to nationalize oil also. We waste way to much money paying the cronies and this needs to change. Energy is a national security issue and should be taken care of by the government.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by mybigunit]



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


You didn't answer my questions. Thats fine, I never expect people like you answer direct questions anyway.

By the way, To answer your question about taxes. Roads etc, are aid for by a State and Federal gas tax. Police, Fire, and Schools are paid for by Local Levies and Property Taxes. Tarrifs used to pay for defense, along with a Corporate Excise Tax. Medicare and Social Security have thier own tax (pointless considering both are bankrupt). So anyway, tell me, why do we pay income taxes again?



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