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Has satanism infiltrated "Christian" rock?

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posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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Why not contact Smith through his record label and ask him if he was runing? I would, if I cared enough to ask him, but he's probably just going to
when it's suggested he's a closet occultist.




posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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Just send him an email to his record label and ask him for crying out loud. If he denies it then he denies it.

You can play his songs backwards, too. You know, to find backward masking like the Zepplin song Stairway to Heaven. Now that's creepy with the Christian references of Christ and rebellion against him the way Lucifer would have written it. You guys do know that when Satan was called Lucifer he headed the heavenly choir.



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 08:58 PM
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The bible says make a joyful noise unto the Lord.
There are many references to music in the bible, and praise.

So no, music is not evil. Just like anything, music can be good or bad.

I look at it like this. How does it make you feel when you listen to it?

I like Tool, but when I listen to them, there is a negative energy , negative message, so I get in a pissy mood.

When I listen to Creed, I find myself in a wonderful mood. Uplifting message.

Sometimes I need to be in a bad mood to burn off some negative emotions.
Sometimes I need to uplift myself. Music is a great tool for that.

Now I do not listen to song that talk about shooting up the neighborhood, there you are getting into evil,. or should I say madness.

Ama



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 09:15 PM
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a. christianity itself was stolen from "occult" or "paganism"
b. "occult" does not neccessarily mean "satanasim"
c. the catholic church "designed" the bible by picking and choosing informatin from previous books. (see Apocrypha) if you believe in christianity you are believing in something thats just as made up and stolen from as scientology.
d. christian rock or christian (genre) is not real music. it's sales jingles.

have a nice day.



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 09:56 PM
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Dr. Terry Watkins, Th.D is a cranky, cantankerous douche bag. I'd love to sit here and debunk his ramblings piece by piece, but I have more important things to do on a Friday night, like playing Fable: The Lost Chapters in anticipation of Fable 2 and then masturbating furiously to ghetto gaggers.
Anywho, stupid Terry says this,

They know rock music, any rock music, is contrary to the will of God.

www.av1611.org...
Agenda established, you don't like the genre, christian or otherwise.
We get it.
He also quotes Bowie...

Rock star David Bowie said, "Rock has always been THE DEVILS MUSIC. . . I believe rock and roll is dangerous. . . I feel we're only heralding something even darker than ourselves." (Rolling Stone, Feb. 12, 1976, p. 83)

www.av1611.org...

No one is an authority on the ruling diety of a type of music, like this is effing ancient Rome, especially not David Bowie. I would also like to know what the whole quote says without his little "ignore these parts,"
dot dot dot nonsense. And not that it matters, but I'm sure "dangerous" and "darker than ourselves" are WAY out of context.

The bottom line is that if someone is musically well trained, they can be inspired in many different ways, with many different sounds.

I'm sure our Dr. Terry, ThD knows ZERO about music theory, so he should shut his stupid mouth. People who have studied music their whole lives can be GREATLY offened by such ignorance. Dr. Terry should have his backside violated by a wild giraffe for being such a silly goose. How do ya like them apples?


Originally posted by GrimTroll
Who cares? Christian music is lifeless and soulless.


WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!

Although I only have one example, it sure is a doozy. I mean, I'm sure I could dig back through history because you did, after all, say music. Still, I think you were really referring to rock.

So, here is one of my favorite bands. They sit next all of the secular, new age, occult, viking, and satanic music in my ipod. Maybe I have more Christian bands in there, but I don't know. I mean, I only found out that this band is Christian a little more than a year ago.

Listen in awe at Extol








And here is my favorite Extol song. I will not embed it due to the two douchebags commiting horrific acts of fagotronics on the video. Anyway, ignore the video portion and you'll hear a true audio masterpiece.
www.youtube.com...



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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I love it, a witchhunt on Christians by Christians! Finally got tired of picking on Iron Maiden and Whitesnake?

Why does everything have to be 'of the debil'?

It's nothing but a scam to take your money. Christian rock bands are just there to make a profit like anybody else. They're just not good enough to cut it in the mainstream.

Not enough Stryper pictures in this thread either...



Wholesome.

[edit on 6/13/2008 by chiS2000]



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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Nice looking man, i know religon was formed by man and God is against religon, it endows mans own opinion into God's teachings. Christianity is supposed to be to Live as Christ, not a bunch of rules and holy sacraments. i am not religous i am a firm beliver in Christ and he is my salvation. everything else i dont believe, like confession, not cutting hair, or woman have to wear long dresses as they do in southern baptist churches. my thoughts are to live as Christ, believe christ is thy way to heaven. we are human we screw up never fear perfection for we will never reach it. christian music is just an agenda, if these people really wanted to do the work of God they would "go out into the world preaching the LOVE of christ" im also against those people you see on streets condeming people in sin haha wtf is that, i saw it in VA beach im disgusted with what people do.



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 10:07 PM
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The only christian band i like is 'me without you' awesome band.
But my range of music goes from 5 finger death punch and 311 to hatebreed and lil wayne. A great metal christian band is nodes of ravinore which broke up in 01, too bad



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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Creed for the win!



www.youtube.com...

[edit on 13-6-2008 by undo]



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Indeed, Jesus is not a sun god. Saying so cheapens sun gods, and gods in general. Hell, even the god Jesus worshiped wasn't a sun god.

I'm quite annoyed with all these people who try to lump all the deities in the world together.


I agree Walking Fox. I tire of all these people who try to lump all the dieties in the world together. Correct

Someone made a post or rather several people to the effect that the music industry will sell anyone or anything for a profit. I agree. Same could be said for another religion called politics.

Spoontoad on page 3 of this thread stated this ...


(2) Music is in itself only that - music. It's a form of expression. What had become lost over the years is the artistic value, which the record companies have aided in because of their own greedy ways. Now adays, it's entertainment and entertainment only - for the purpose of making a profit. Nothing more, nothing less.


I found this statement to be very intresting and causing me to muse upon a concept and in this spirit I ask this for those of you more versed in the music history or buisness.
Where do musicians go when they want to practice or carry on in the pure artistic mode?? With whom do they socialize or associate...in this mode?? In my mind ..for many musicians this would be a rare treat...verses the constant pressure of the buisness side.
I state here ...artistic..verses buisness mode. Just something which occured to me in reading the format in which Spoontoad presented this very intresting tidbit.
Thanks for that view Spoontoad.

Orangetom



posted on Jun, 14 2008 @ 04:43 AM
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I could only read about a tenth of the main linked article before wanting to puke. I'm sorry, Journey is a tool of the Devil? No, this guy is just reading way too much into these symbols. Has he not considered that maybe the artist who created these covers just thought the symbol being used looked interesting? This guy is in the same crowd who satanize all metalheads for the "rock on" hand symbol of fist raised, index and pinky fingers pointing up, because they believe it portrays a horned demon. George Bush and a whole crap load of Texas sports fans, natives, etc. use this same hand gesture to symbolize a bull's head and two horns. Is now the president, his family and entire state of Texas all bowing down to the Dark Lord as well?

I think not.



posted on Jun, 14 2008 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by Dr Love
 


hello Dr

IMHO there is NO such thing as Christian rock. AT ALL.

so i would agree that yes it has

david



posted on Jun, 15 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by Alienmojo
Comparing modern day Christians to Conquistadors is a bit of an over statement in my mind. They are not murdering people, only making music. I just think you sound a bit paranoid in that regard.

Christians will forever have to wear the legacy of the Conquistadors and missionaries, whether modern activities are comparable to theirs or not. Europe wouldn't be Christian were it not for the missionaries so it'd be a bit naive for white Christians to denounce the actions of their spiritual forefathers.
Anyway, this is a little off point.


Originally posted by Alienmojo
Goodness sakes, show me one religion that ISN'T trying to beat down your door one way or the other. You make it sound as if the Christians are the only ones making their prescence known. Every religion does it, in one form or another, in order to save your soul. Right or wrong, all are to blame there.

Very true. Difference is that - like it or not - rock and roll has mostly been music for white people (not saying it should be, or that many of its originators weren't black) and Christianity is mostly responsible for the indoctrination of white people - therefore Christianity has been by far the most prolific in terms of permeating rock and roll.


Originally posted by Alienmojo
I sure would like to hear your evidence for Christians trying to 'lure' rock and roll listeners away from their music.

I didn't say they lure them away, I said that they infiltrate. It's along the lines of - "this music is too ungodly for people to listen to so we'll provide a cheap immitation that doesn't corrupt". Christians are constantly trying to 'save' everything and everyone. I wish they'd stay out of rock music. Rock = freedom, Christianity = Chains. "Christian Rock" is an artform made impotent.



posted on Jun, 15 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Cythraul
Christians will forever have to wear the legacy of the Conquistadors and missionaries, whether modern activities are comparable to theirs or not. Europe wouldn't be Christian were it not for the missionaries so it'd be a bit naive for white Christians to denounce the actions of their spiritual forefathers.


Cythraul,
I think you went to public school and never quite got over it yes?? You do know what was the track record of pagan nations against those they conquered yes?? How they treated the conquered nations...whom they enslaved etc etc.?? How they ran thier economies...yes??

You should by this also know that Christians have no such instruction to go wiith Conquistadors to conquer and enslave another nation and then aid in the looting of such nations. You see no such instruction to carry on in such conduct.
What I see you and so many others doing on these threads is using Rome as the template to represent all of Christianity by default. It is clear that the template of Rome and the conduct of Rome historically was very far from the proper Christian template given in the Bible and many of the Apostles and diciples warned of this template in thier later writings. This falls under the title of "The traditions of men."
A disobedient church means that they ..just as did the Hebrews of Ancient times ...switched gods to another god ..another religion.
Christians who know do not have to carry the burden/legacy of the Conquistadors and Rome. Rome is not the template for the Christian Church.
What is also known, is that to this very day and continuing on, there were always and continues Christian Churchs who never did nor do today follow the template of Rome.



Very true. Difference is that - like it or not - rock and roll has mostly been music for white people (not saying it should be, or that many of its originators weren't black) and Christianity is mostly responsible for the indoctrination of white people - therefore Christianity has been by far the most prolific in terms of permeating rock and roll.


lol lol lol...again...textbook. You do know that there are people out here on ATS and other places versed in Occult doctrine ...esoteric doctrine ....yes?? Language..colours....numbers..pattern recognition..etc etc??
If you understand what I just posted than you also understand that mercantillism is in fact Occult....and it's history is also very Occult...hidden..esoteric..known only by a chosen few.
The real history of this world is written in the dealings of the new Robber
Barons...the merchants and their insurance companys, who are also merchants, underwriting the ventures of other merchants...including the music industry.
This is the real religion going on with devout faithfulness... and it is not Christianity.



I didn't say they lure them away, I said that they infiltrate. It's along the lines of - "this music is too ungodly for people to listen to so we'll provide a cheap immitation that doesn't corrupt". Christians are constantly trying to 'save' everything and everyone. I wish they'd stay out of rock music. Rock = freedom, Christianity = Chains. "Christian Rock" is an artform made impotent.


This is also a hidden, occult, esoteric, definition of merchantillism. How to discretely infiltrate in order to sell their wares.

Christians cannot save anyone or anything...that is not thier jurisdiction. Amazingly many Christians seem to be very ignorant of this..meaning even they have been infiltrated and counterfitted. You too are here using a counterfit example to label Christians. Christians cannot save nor condem anyone..period..that is the jurisdiction of thier Lord..not them.

One of the fingerprints of Occult doctrine..especially Luciferianism..is that it is highly infiltrating. Highly counterfitting. By subtilty...even secrecy.
Dont worry.....Chythraul...most of my Christian Bretheran are so dirt dumb about most things ..even Christianity ..they will never get it.
In short ..they have lost thier SALT and replaced it with sugar. Not a good trade.

IF you understand what I am saying here..then you also understand that I know that Occult Paganism...in all its variations is of a much older pedigree than Christianity...much older. Hence more refiined...sublime ....Yes??
By this knowlege than you also know that until about the 1500s to the 1700s there was no change in the standard of living among most nations.
A few people had a little the rest had almost nothing. Feudalism was the norm anywhere in the world..even among pagan nations. Yet Occult Paganism had all this time and pedigree to make a difference in this world and did not make any difference. Most people and nations lived at a basic substance level or lower. Occult Paganism did however ...have the opportunity to attach itself to Royalty and continue on under the guise of the new holyness template ..appearing to be Christian when in fact they were no such thing.
This counterfit template was often practiced under the heading of Divine Right of Kings. Divine Right of Kings was put to rest for most of the Western world with the beheading of King Charles the First...by the Puritans in 1649. Little wonder this history is so seldom taught anymore ..even to Englishmen ...next to the importance or significance of it. It is what made this country (America) and gave the leaders of the Colonies the ability and precident to turn on their king..for when the king had broken the law ...they could now by precident turn against their king. This knowlege has Christian Religious implications. Divine Right of Kings has Occult Concealed Feudal Pagan implications.l


Dont worry again...Cathraul..most of my Christian bretheren are once again just to plain dumb to make this connection in history.
You will easily be able to get away with posts like yours as they are to untutored to rebutt.

Keep up the good work,
Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 15 2008 @ 12:39 PM
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Has satanisim infiltrated 'christian' rock? I sure hope so...then I would probably want to listen to it more.



posted on Jun, 15 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 

I'm sorry orangatom but that whole post was just waffle - poor grammar and sentence structure, and yet you have the audacity to accuse me of being "dumb"?

Anyway, at one point I managed to comprehend something you said about Rome not representing all Christians. Well, if it wasn't for Rome you wouldn't be a Christian. Hey, maybe you'd even be a little more articulate - having time to study real intellectual texts instead of the 'religion by numbers' your religious teachers throw at you.



posted on Jun, 15 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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Cathraul,

I dont look to Rome for anything to do with Christianity. THere are also others to whom I would not look . Yet the history of many of the others is a hatred and distrust of Rome. Rome is nothing more than Hellenic Phariseeism...verses Judiac Phariseeism....take your pick...what kind of Phariseeism do you want??
I also dont look to the East for Wisdom and Enlightment. I do however know what it means as do others out here.


I'm sorry orangatom but that whole post was just waffle - poor grammar and sentence structure, and yet you have the audacity to accuse me of being "dumb"?


I believe I stated ..public schooling..not dumb ..as I recall the dumb reference was to many of my Christian Bretheren. Wondering how you made that quantum leap? Public schooling...implys indoctrination. Not necessarily dumb.
However..it is ok if you want to call me dumb...I am not bothered by such labeling.
Nonetheless you are losing me here in not covering or rebutting the points I am making.
Nonetheless your method comes across more like politics..or perhapsed pubic education...I cant quite as of yet put a finger on it.

Shall we try again??

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 



The sun disc or the sun disc with the rays coming out of the disc is not a accident on the Japanese flag.

Once I began to understand the significance of this..I gave up all holidays and all birthdays....especially christmas. All days belong to my Lord..and not to me. Mind you now..this does not in any way make me better than anyone else...not possible. It does however make me aware of much out here...designed to keep people on a particular treadmill..not of thier making.

Birthdays ..including christmas are a pagan custom. Never were Christian or Hebrew in nature. This knowlege itself makes a joke out of this christmas album once you know.

Dont worry...most "Christians" out here havent a clue and dont ever want to get even close to a clue.

Jesus the Christ for remission of Sins is not the sun god. Not possible.

Maria Stardust on page 1 of this thread makes an excellent post about the art directors. And the sad truth is that many Believers are not well versed in Occult symbolology and patterns of operation....even mathematics. So it would be very easy to accomplish this through marketing strategys.

To my knowlege..there are no symbols for a Christian..not crosses, fishs, birds or anything. If you do not have the Holy Ghost working within you ...no symbols are going to cut it. And there is no symbol for the Holy Ghost.

The cross is the symbol of pagan fertility..the male vertical and the female horizontal. The intersection of the male and female principles. It never was Christian. He was crucified on a pagan fertility cross.

This informations can be found in books like the Two Babylons by Alexander Hyslop for those inclined to heavy reading. Same with the origins of most of our Holy Days.

Before closing I will say it once again....Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins is not the sun god.

Thanks,
Orangetom


Perhaps you have seen the untainted version of Christ, but once the Romans got hold on Christianity it really went downhill, pagan holidays, occult symbols, and yes the incorporation of various sun God elements into the story of Jesus. If the rising sun on the Japanese flag is important than what about the "solar" halo over depictions of Jesus? While Jesus may not be a full sun deity he certainly shares characteristics with many of them... Christmas and the like are based on pagan festivals which the Church, rather than altering them, merely superimposed their own stamp of approval on and called them Christian...

[edit on 16-6-2008 by Titen-Sxull]



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 07:18 AM
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What this whole thing boils down to is that there are preachers who are worried about Christain Rock becouse the musicians reach young people better than they do. The more young people listen and start reading the Bible on their own instead of having Rev Billy Bob tell them what the Bible says, the less power thru followers Rev Billy Bob has. It's all about power folks. The more followers, the more money and power these preachers get. The more people start to question and read and realize that you do not get



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Titen-Sxull,
I quite agree with your position above here with the exception that you did not take it far enough.

What most peoples dont realize or know enough Scripture to think through is that any church doing such conduct as you describe is in fact mixing leven with unleven, new wine with olde wine. This is not Christianity. It cannot be. It is the appearance of Christianity. Appearances is also a term for a Counterfit. Do you understand this important distinction??
Do not get me wrong here...there are other religious counterfit systems out here than just Rome. It is up to the individual to teach himself to spot a counterfit.

Another name for a counterfit..it Hidden, Concealed..esoteric...Occult. They are quite religious..yes..but under different rules and guidelines than those of which most peoples are aware. Occult counterfits are also of a long pedigree of infiltrating conduct...by concealed methods.

What I find very intresting and at times very humorous is that so many on these threads are using a counterfit system as fodder to debate Believers and attempt to put them in a box. In seriousness I ask...Are you able to grasp this concept??

Once one knows what it is..it does not make good nonsense when you see someone using a counterfit template to debate Christians who know.
However ..to be fair about this...many Christians are in fact dumb as a box of rocks about everything including Christianity. Amazing but quite true. This knowlege does not make me or anyone else who knows ..better than anyone else..but it does make us quite different...Salty too.

I have quoted this before on ATS/BTS and will do so here again for purposes of illustrating my point.

There is a section in the Book of John concerning a woman caught in adultery...in the very act. This takes place in the book of John, Chapter8, verse 3.

What I find intresting about this verse is that most preachers do not take this verse far enough in teaching Christians but use this mostly as a verse for forgiveness..where Jesus tells the woman .."Go and sin no more."

But for the purpose of illustrating a counterfit doctrine and such Occult substitution principles..let us watch closely as to what happened here with this woman caught in adultery ..in the very act.

First off they were not in any way concerned with the woman caught in adultery. They wanted to discredit Jesus in his doctrine and practices.

The problem here stems from the Pharisees being proud that they kept the Law of Moses in all parts. They were boastful of this and their knowlege of the Olde Testament. The Olde Testament states that "They both Shall be Stoned." Not one accused..but both. The Pharisees only brought a woman caught in adultery.....in the very act. They did not bring the man. The doctrine the Pharisees were keeping said women get stoned for adultery and men dont.
They had secretly and Occultly switched doctrines and practices and overlaid the new secret doctrine over the Law of Moses ..passing it on to the public as if it was the Law of Moses when it was in fact a counterfit doctrine and practice.
As a result the Pharisees were disobedient and had in fact switched gods from the God of the Law to the counterfit god. 'They told no one of this. This is the Occult portion. Hidden ..concealed..esoteric..known only to a chosen few.
This is very easy to do if one does not know or is easily seduced..misdirected...etc etc. A counterfit can easily be overlaid on another principle..the bait and switch.
A counterfit is not the opposite of a thing but as close to the real thing as possible so as to pass for the real thing even though it is not the real thing.
There are counterfits all around us once we know for what to look.
But to know a counterfit ..you must know the real thing. Otherwise you will have great difficulty spotting the counterfit.

Hope this helps illustrate the point I am trying to make. This can be applied to music as well.

You see Tixten-Sxull..I also know that Classical Music(Wagner, Motzart etc) contains much of this counterfit fingerprint...it is not just confined to rock. Rock has no such monopoly on this practice. No insult intended to the devout rockers here. I can make the same point about Country. Same point with politics...same point with public education..since the body politic finances public education..correct???

Nonetheless...I hope you get my point about Occult counterfits. They are all around us once we know the fingerprint for what to look.

Thanks Titan-Sxull. I agree with your points you make with the exception that you did not take it far enough.

BagBane,

Strange post you made above. Musicians teach young people exactly what better than do preachers?? Precisely what religions are musicians teaching young people better than these preachers??
I am not against young people reading the Bible or reading the Bible on their own. If the Holy Spirit watches over them someone will be sent to them to help or aid in thier understanding..no problem with this. Often it is a preacher. Often a Layperson.

Also I hope you understand that Believers are not to just take the word of thier teachers and preachers..but are to check up on them to make sure they are teaching the Whole Council of God..not just fluff and feel good sugary drivel. I check up on preachers ...to see if they are teaching the Whole Council of God..not just selected parts or misdirection. I check on them to see if they are being Pharisees.

You are correct in that there is Power in this knowlege and not ignorance or counterfits. Ignorance and counterfits cannot survive if sufficient Light is put upon them.
Also none of the early churchs were wealthy churchs in monetary means.
This is often a very important indicator of what a church is or is not.

Well..we are getting a bit off topic here. Precisely what is the religion that musicians..particularly rock musicians in this instance.. are teaching young people better than are preachers. Can you elaborate on this for us??

Thanks,
Orangetom



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