Has satanism infiltrated "Christian" rock?

reply to post by Dr Love





Of course; because it didn't originate with Christianity it's automatically Satanic. It's these kinds of sites, and Christians, that remind me why I'm not one of them.


Major kudos to saint4god, though! Some very good posts and points.

OK, let me put it another way, to a TRUE Christian, is the use of runic symbolism something that would stand for God or against God?

Forget if you consider it occultic/satanic or not, what does God consider it?

Peace

[edit on 12-6-2008 by Dr Love]

Originally posted by Dr Love
OK, let me put it another way, to a TRUE Christian, is the use of runic symbolism something that would stand for God or against God?

This is the same as asking "Is the letter 'R' for or against God?" It's a letter. Use the letter R for God and it is for God. Use the letter R against God and it is against God.

[edit on 12-6-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Dr Love
OK, let me put it another way, to a TRUE Christian, is the use of runic symbolism something that would stand for God or against God?

Forget if you consider it occultic/satanic or not, what does God consider it?

Peace

[edit on 12-6-2008 by Dr Love]

Ok Dr. Love I had no clue what a runic symbol was. So I looked it up. From these definitions it could be used for different things. So in all honestly I guess it would depend on how it was used.

1. Sounds like its ok nothing wrong with it.

2. A magical symbol or spell is wrong. There’s scripture about magic being wrong. God's against this.

3. A poem.

So if number 2 then wrong. Again though depends on its use.

1. language old Germanic alphabet character: a character in any of several ancient Germanic alphabets used from about the 3rd to the 13th centuries. The earliest Anglo-Saxon texts and inscriptions were written in runes.
2. magical symbol or spell: a mysterious symbol, inscription, or incantation, especially one believed to have magical power
3. poetry poem in Finnish: a Finnish poem or stanza

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Originally posted by Dr Love

Link

....Michael W. Smith's Christmastime album has the most bizarre album cover I have ever seen. Michael W. Smith is simply standing on a chair in some weird stance. What in the world is he doing? During a slide presentation on Christian Rock, I displayed Smith's Christmastime album cover and remarked "what a bizarre cover it was. And I had no idea what Smith was doing!" After the presentation, a man came forward and told me that Michael was "runing". He was forming the runic "T" and the bottom of the chair (we enclosed it in red) is forming the runic "M"! It is clearly taking place! Unbelievable!....

I wonder just what the 'T' and the 'M' could possibly stand for.

the 1st thing that popped into my head was that "TM" stands for Transendental Meditation, but that's so past tense its funny.

the runic symbol for 'T' fashioned by a human in a definite poise might be explored....
but for the life of me I can't think of anything thats satanic or anti-christian in which a 'Twisted' human would contort themself to send a 'coded' runic 'M' message for the fans to dwell upon.

Oh, maybe that's a code in itself, the 'T' & 'M' symbols, hidden to most people, would be obvious to the initiated,, in revealing that the contents of the CD were in fact a Twisted Message to the astute....

much like the 'Beatles' infamous Paul is dead hidden message to the fans,


If a controversy can be generated, good deal on the sales figures...
even a christian in the audience knew that the singer was contorting himself into a runic symbol of 'T', so the symbolism was not that deeply
buried and obscure so that only a satanist would know




[edit on 12-6-2008 by St Udio]

Originally posted by St Udio
I wonder just what the 'T' and the 'M' could possibly stand for.

Here's the album cover:



In it, he's standing on a chair in a surrendered, cross-like position.

First, if the intention was to create the "M", they should have used a chair with longer legs. They didn't. Considering the incredible amount of thought that would have gone into this if they were trying to hide mystic symbols pointing to other religions in the art, I would expect they would go get another chair or put it on something.

What's more, this is just an old Germanic alphabet. Making the assumption that it must mean that it's witchcraft is like saying that because I like to walk through the forest and look at trees I must be a druid.

He also has 21 albums. If he were trying to communicate something, you'd think it would show up on more than one album.

reply to post by junglejake


You raise a really good point there. Im sure he must have lots of albums and just like 3rd day there would be symbalism in more then one of these albums.

-fm

Thats certainly interesting stuff but i need to ask a question.

Im in the UK and i have never heard of any of these Christian singers/bands so i'm completely unbiased as far as their music goes. I'm curious as to the point of putting the alleged satanic symbolism on their album covers? Is it meant to encourage satanists to buy the album? I'm really not sure what the point would be if the symbols are indeed intended as satanic?

I'm probably being a bit dense so i apologise

Edited to add: I forgot to say that the album cover with the guy standing on the chair looks similar to a 'Jesus on the cross' style pose to me. I cant see where the satanic symbolism with the chair is.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by xtr3m3paranoia]

Originally posted by xtr3m3paranoia
I'm curious as to the point of putting the alleged satanic symbolism on their album covers?

There's a band I'm thinking of that has some pretty 'edgy' stuff at first glance. One cover looks like something that might belong on a death-metal cover. Taking a closer look though, it's a close-up of a bloodied crown of thorns. I think the idea was to catch the eye of someone in the Christian music section and make them go, "What the...?" Also, a lot of metal fans are Christian and dig that kind of stuff.

Originally posted by xtr3m3paranoia
Is it meant to encourage satanists to buy the album?

Um, no. I don't think Christian artists could sneak a sale into a Satanist's CD library. It's possible but highly doubt that's the intent.

Originally posted by xtr3m3paranoia
I'm really not sure what the point would be if the symbols are indeed intended as satanic?

There wouldn't be one.

Originally posted by xtr3m3paranoia
Edited to add: I forgot to say that the album cover with the guy standing on the chair looks similar to a 'Jesus on the cross' style pose to me. I cant see where the satanic symbolism with the chair is.

I think your eyes tell you true.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by saint4God]

for those who speak spanish--------.

www.santuario.com.ar...
eye opener.

Satanic Messages in Religious Music



[edit on 13-6-2008 by CzErased]

While I can appreciate the loving concern that Christians may be exposed in some way to Satanism (shocker! Some of us have Satanic friends), rest assured that a believer in God is soul-protected in their faith in God. True, we can be dragged down to a level of depression, sadness, anger, angst, fear and stress but usually it's due to the loss of a loved one rather than "the great evil of rock and roll". It is nice to have friends who are wanting to protect our faith (even though it's not a faith they share), but what shield do we need if God is with us?

[edit on 13-6-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


You do realize this is a conspiracy discussion website don't you? I think it's great that your faith is so solid and unwavering. This thread is not anti-Christian and it's not about you. You went on the attack immediately and for no reason at all. Your input is welcome, but please try not to have such a persecution complex.

Peace

Originally posted by Dr Love
You do realize this is a conspiracy discussion website don't you?

Is it? Us Christians don't notice these things.

Originally posted by Dr Love
This thread is not anti-Christian

I think the conspiracy is the underlying theme that this thread IS anti-Christian. I did not say it was, so it is very curious that you would suggest such.

Originally posted by Dr Love
and it's not about you.

I know this for a fact because no one here knows me.

Originally posted by Dr Love
You went on the attack immediately and for no reason at all.

Ah yes, because uppity believers tend to pounce with our knee-jerk reactions, don't we?

Originally posted by Dr Love
Your input is welcome, but please try not to have such a persecution complex.

Help! I'm being oppressed!

Originally posted by Dr Love
Peace

He who speaks peace and yet beats the drums of war. Interesting how you state this thread isn't about me, yet your entire previous post was directed at...guess who. You did create the topic, perhaps sticking to it would be in order.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by Dr Love


Here we go

I would expect any band to use symbolism, especially the rising sun (since Jesus is a sun deity)... Now I guess its possible that some odd symbolism made it into Christian rock but still, its a big leap from wanting to use certain symbols, to worshiping Satan. Seems like the same paranoia that blames bands for people committing suicide or having satanic subliminal messages in them, is no rock safe? This is fairly interesting since despite not being a Christian any more some of the rock bands I listen to are... Christian metal rocks btw!

To expect these bands to adhere to every scripture is insane, no Christian lives by every single piece of scripture, though some try...

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
I would expect any band to use symbolism, especially the rising sun (since Jesus is a sun deity)

Jesus is not a sun deity.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
This is fairly interesting since despite not being a Christian any more some of the rock bands I listen to are... Christian metal rocks btw!

Christian bands have gotten a lot better since the 80's. More than likely because a market was established and the people who know how to produce the CD's have taken a vested interest.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
To expect these bands to adhere to every scripture is insane, no Christian lives by every single piece of scripture, though some try...

Good point.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by Dr Love]

has anyone even looked up the meaning behind the runes?

the t or teiwazTEIWAZ
meaning: “Tyr” the Norse god, Courage, Duty, Truth, Victory, Protection, Leadership, Determination, Responsibility, Skill, Justice, Self-Sacrifice, the Warrior’s Path.
This is Tyr’s rune, one of the oldest gods of Norse mythology, a mighty warrior who nobly sacrificed his right hand to bind the “Fenris” wolf, protecting his fellowmen. Teiwaz represents all of a great god-warrior’s qualities, bravery, courage, duty and heroism, and the dignity in self-sacrifice for the greater good. It may also indicate a challenge to be met, and the need for courage, discipline and virtue to ensure success.

the m or mannaz
meanings: Man, The Self, Humanity, Community, Social Conscience, Family & Friends, Cooperation.
This rune is a symbol of mankind, of our relationships with those around us, and with our inner selves. It speaks of the bonds that we all share as humans, our innate need to interact with one another, and our connection with the forces of nature and the divine. Our feelings and attitudes in relations to others and ourselves is highlighted here, stressing cooperation, harmony and tolerance, consideration, creativity and unity

i got this info from: www.rune-scripts.arollo.com...

i don't do religion or know anything about this performer, but it sounds like the runes he's using reflect an uplifting personal spiritual message.

As a Christian, this kind of thing drives me crazy and keeps me from participating in the whole Christian marketing machine.

My guess is Michael W. Smith was out on his photo shoot for the Christmas album and the photographer said, "Hey, let's do this with the chair," and he said, "Cool." And then the album art director went through all the pics and decided that one looked the coolest and designed the cover. Nothing involving Satan at all.

Because you're telling me every time a person stands like that, with hands down and out at their sides, they're runing (whatever that means)? I mean, come on. Let's use a little bit of reason here.

In my opinion, most Christians are afraid of the boogie man and give into their fears and thus give undue power to the things that frighten them. We fear what we don't understand. Yes, this is a generalization, but from my experience, it's what a lot of Christians do. One person in the Christian community deems something evil, words spreads throughout the community and ta-da! An organized boycott. A witch hunt. Heaven forbid they should read the book, see the movie, listen to the music, contemplate the lyrics, look at the art and make an educated decision on their own. No, no, instead just keep pouring your money into the little "Christian" trinkets and merchandise. Keep that machine turning.

Michael W. Smith satanic? Hahahahaa... That's a good one.

"Has satanism infiltrated "Christian" rock?"

Dear God let's hope so, Like Richard O'brien wrote
"The angels got the voices, but the devils got the rock and roll"

Dr. Love,

Let's presume for a moment, just a moment that all this Christian Rock were Satanic. Should this bother Christians listening to it? I don't see why. Exposure to such material isn't harmful. A Christian isn't going to see a dude standing on a chair, and immediately feel a need to start practicing galdr. He's not going to hear "Sweet Home Alabama" and go home to build an altar to satan.

Just like I'm not going to listen to Godsmack perform "Voodoo" and go shoot up heroin. Just like you're not going to listen to DMX and start a violent gang. Saint isn't going to listen to Celine Dion and start sucking, either.

people who think that by seeing or hearing something disagreeable, their faith has been compromised, are people who haven't got much faith to start with. In which case I would advise them to looking into what it is that unnerves them - maybe they'll find something that suits them better.

reply to post by Dr Love


I think God considers intention, it is possible that someone just thought the font looked cool and used it for the album. Then again, I'm a big fan of Occam.

Things like fonts or what could be considered an occult symbol aren't evil, it's the use of them. Heck, I don't even think using something that could be associated with evil (or however we'd like to define) it makes it bad. Sort of the whole, 'guns don't kill people' thing.