2 Eleven Year Olds Drink themselves to Death

Originally posted by Gazrok
Ahh...Darwinism at it's finest....at least these two idiots are gone from the gene pool...

Sad as it is...you'd think anyone, even an 11 year old, would know when enough is enough....jeez....
[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Gazrok]

I agree on a lot of things that you post Sir, but not his time.
Usually, children, learn by imitation. They see people drink and drink (movies, shows, parents etc) but those same shows NEVER show the profound effects of to much drinking. The same happens all the time with guns, people leave loaded guns in their house, kid picks it up says to his buddies lets play cops and robbers and bang...dead kid.
I just don;t believe that all the blame should be placed on the kids because they "should have known better"

maybe that's the difference...I quit my job to stay home and raise my children.

while growing up, I was never home alone, neither was my husband, in our culture, there is always a motherly figure in the household to cook and be home when the kids arrive...

so it is probably a combination of values instilled by our parents and our culture.

oops, sorry parrhesia, my boys are 5 and 7 years old.

So was I. My mother raised us, and for the most part, we came out fine. However, if she ran to the store real quick, went over to a neighbors, etc., BOOM, it was off to snoop, just because I was adventurous... Heck, my hobby as a kid was breaking and entering (though less breaking, than picking, etc.) just to see if I could...never took anything...but did like to leave notes commenting on the security system.... It was the excitement I liked, and the thrill of discovery...

Not saying this is your kids....but you can't be too sure, and no amount of prep is really going to keep out a really curious kid... This isn't to scare, it's a simply the way kids are....

Obviously, the parents failed somewhere, to have two dolts without a lick of common sense, but I don't think I'd call them negligent....

I agree on a lot of things that you post Sir, but not his time.

No problem, we each have our opinions...

However, the excess that these kids drank to, goes WAY beyond even binge drinking..... This isn't just irresponsible, it's downright uncomprehensible..... I mean .50 and .20??? Jeez!!! I saw the same garbage when I was a kid, heck, drugs were even in more movies when I was a kid, and in a GOOD light...so you can't blame it on that...or even seeing mommy and daddy do it... If so, mommy and daddy are still around, so you'd think they would have seen when to stop...

These kids were just plain stupid...and the parents already paid a terrible price....outliving their kids...

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by worldwatcher
gaz my kids aren't allowed in our bedroom without permission and having to knock. my door usually locked and our alcohol...which isn't a large supply is kept in our bedroom closet on the very top shelf, even I need a step stool to get to it.

trust me, when I say.. my kids don't even know where it is.

But I do now!

lol, RANT. Watch your liquor store, WW.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
I cannot be sure of anything, but I do hope that the way me and husband raise our children will help them to become smart individuals who will come to us first before listening their peers.

We were raised in a strict environment and we both feel that it helped us become the individuals we are, we only can hope to do the same and instill the proper values into our children.

btw, my boys know about the dangers of alcohol and drug abuse firsthand, unfortunately we have had members of our extended family that have overdosed infront of all of us. And drinking alcohol in front of our children is not a common event. The only time my kids have ever see daddy drink, is at parties and they usually get into a panic and come and tell me, don't drink mommy, daddy won't be able to drive.

It is how your raise your children, that affects what they may or may not do in the future.

Just because they see it doesn't mean they'll do it, I think you have to give kids more credit than that, they're not stupid.
My father drunk infront of me from the day I was born and guess what? I don't even drink, I used to when I was younger but I eventually decided it does nothing for me. Sure, when I go down the pub or to a club with friends I get a few funny remarks about me drinking my shandy's, but so what? It didn't effect my decision when I was younger and it wont effect my decision now. If you show your kids respect they will respect you and your decisions, if you bring the hammer down on them and are strict they will rebel. It's all about trust.

There's another fact that people are going to have get used to. Kids die! Everybody Dies!!! It's what we humans are best at.
I hate the sensationalism in the media that says when are kid dies it is somehow different, and that they have to make a big deal out of it and point fingers. Most of the time it is no ones fault, these things just happen and nothing will change that even if you lock them up in a metal box. Even then they might have some rear birth defect which means they've got a bad heart and die. Does that mean we should blame the parents for giving them a bad diet?

Originally posted by Gazrok
These kids were just plain stupid...and the parents already paid a terrible price....outliving their kids...

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Gazrok]

Ok..maybe stupid, but I think everyone is overlooking one big factor here, that perhaps contributed to this sad tragedy, and that is the following

"Evidence for genetic linkage to alcohol dependence on chromosomes 4 and 11 from an autosome-wide scan in an American Indian population"


American Indians have a large problem with alcohol (why do you think the white man was so eager to give it to them?)

Perhaps they couldn't stop drinking (the kids)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I myself, am part Choctaw and Part Cherokee, I can't touch the stuff. When I was 16 growing up overseas, some friends of mine convinced me to drink with them, it was like water to me, I couldn't get enough, they were all passed out I was looking for more.
I have seen ( I used to be a manager at a 7-11 store)Navajos steal Vanilla extract for the alcohol, I had a Navajo girl who might have been 15, approach me and offer sex if I gave her just ONE beer. (And no, I did not accept)
I'm not jumping your case Sir, just explaining my point of view

Like John's, my father drank a lot... So much in fact, that I saw him lose jobs, and eventually his family over it...

If anything, I think it made me drink LESS after seeing the destruction it caused...

Just so you can see MY viewpoint...

Originally posted by Gazrok
Just so you can see MY viewpoint...

Yes Sir I do, so I say to you; Achukmalechi
It means "makes peace"

We are discussing, thats all, don't want to cause resentment with an ATS member who I do really like to read their posts.

Originally posted by RANT

But I do now!

first you gotta find me, then you can can hunt for my liquor stash...

I agree that you can only blame the parents to some extent. If the child chooses to take off without letting anyone know there isn't much that can be done. I also think the hopelessness on native reserves are partly to blame for the alcohol. I often hear of stories from the Canadian north about young native teens sniffing gasoline. The reserves are basically dead ends for these kids. Native issues are often just put on the back burner and never addressed. Its criminal how they have been treated since North America was colonialized.

We are discussing, thats all, don't want to cause resentment with an ATS member who I do really like to read their posts.

No, no resentment.. To be honest, some of my favorite members are those who I argue with the most on a regular basis... It's no fun to argue with someone who has the same viewpoint...

I'd much rather see someone disagree with me, back it up, and make me re-evaluate my opinion of an issue, than simply nod and say...yep.

We each have our own opinions, and that's why we come here, to learn, listen, and be heard....keep it up!

Thing about Indian reservations...there is no law saying an Indian HAS to live there you know.... It's a choice...

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Gazrok
Thing about Indian reservations...there is no law saying an Indian HAS to live there you know....

It's a choice...

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Gazrok]

One last note, then no more.
For an American Indian to recieve "benefits" they MUST live on the reservation.
True many do leave and obtain a better life.
Many however are normally not well accepted in society by a lot of people so they choose to stay on the reservation.
(Notice how Indian Casinos are ON reservations)
their motto is...you took our land...we're gonna take your money

Originally posted by NetStorm
Ok..maybe stupid, but I think everyone is overlooking one big factor here, that perhaps contributed to this sad tragedy, and that is the following

"Evidence for genetic linkage to alcohol dependence on chromosomes 4 and 11 from an autosome-wide scan in an American Indian population"

(wry smile) I made the same point. I don't think folks are noticing. A few other points in the story made me suspect that it wasn't just the kids who were having the problem -- that it was, in fact, a problem with the whole tribe and the local system.

I don't have the resources and contacts to go approach them, but I feel there's a significantly large problem there that could stand to have a few applied anthropologists fling themselves at it.



(applied anthropologists are "meddling anthropologists" -- we attempt to find solutions for social problems within cultures.)

Originally posted by worldwatcher
gaz my kids aren't allowed in our bedroom without permission and having to knock. my door usually locked and our alcohol...which isn't a large supply is kept in our bedroom closet on the very top shelf, even I need a step stool to get to it.

trust me, when I say.. my kids don't even know where it is.

in my and my husband's upbringing, parents rooms are like the forbidden zone...up to now, I hesitate to enter my own mom's room. it's the way we were brought up, respect your elders and respect their space.

I completely agree, Worldwatcher. As it should be. Unfortunately there are those who allow their children free reign - its those who should be pulled up. If they allow their kids to do anything they want, then they are obviously not responsible enough to have them.

Originally posted by NetStorm
One last note, then no more.
For an American Indian to recieve "benefits" they MUST live on the reservation.
True many do leave and obtain a better life.
Many however are normally not well accepted in society by a lot of people so they choose to stay on the reservation.

Very true. In a way, they're the last formal American ghettos. Those who do leave often find it hard to blend in with American society.

Poor kids had a little too much of the El Presidente or some hard liquor. If I was 11 years old, the mere taste of such strong alcohol would make me yak let alone drink it. Stupid kids....I do however feel sorry for them. I know what it's like to drink yourself stupid and just wanna die.

Originally posted by Vietnow
I often hear of stories from the Canadian north about young native teens sniffing gasoline. The reserves are basically dead ends for these kids. Native issues are often just put on the back burner and never addressed. Its criminal how they have been treated since North America was colonialized.

There is a large occurence of that on the reserves in the north of the country. Look at where some of them are located. They're completely shut off from society, but they still experience it, through television, movies, etc. There is nothing there. No opportunities, just desolation. Many of the kids who are gas huffing are in their early teens, not exactly old enough to move away and look for a better life.

SURVIVAL INTERNATIONAL reports that the Innu people in Canada's northeastern regions have the highest suicide rate in the world: 178 per 100,000 persons per year. This compares to an average suicide rate of 14 per 100,000 elsewhere in Canada, and 12 per 100,000 in the U.S.

Originally posted by Pisky


I completely agree, Worldwatcher. As it should be. Unfortunately there are those who allow their children free reign - its those who should be pulled up. If they allow their kids to do anything they want, then they are obviously not responsible enough to have them.

I dont think giving a kid free reign isnt necessarily a bad idea unless your kid is impressionable. I do agree 1000 percent of these idiots have parents who are neglegent but its just another styel of raising your kid.

Let em learn the world for themself and if they die then as Gazrok said, its natures way.

Natures way of explaining you shouldnt reproduce.

Those kids are stupid.

They should know better.

I would not have drunk this much when I was 11, and that was two years ago.

[Edited on 3-4-2004 by EliteXizer]

worldwatcher, I doubt your kids are not able to get into your room. Kids are sneaky. I would know.

in my and my husband's upbringing, parents rooms are like the forbidden zone...up to now, I hesitate to enter my own mom's room. it's the way we were brought up, respect your elders and respect their space.

I'm 13. It's forbidden to do many things at my house. Among them: look at porn, do drugs, etc.

Yet I still manage to do it.