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The Issue Of Religiously Inspired Topics on ATS and BTS

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posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


It's still not clear to me . . . witness

WWW.ANCIENTofDAYS.NET...

and Guy Malone's perspective well buttressed by a huge panel of high level experts . . . that no AUTHENTIC CHRISTIAN HAS EVER BEEN ABDUCTED . . . and that basic Christian Spiritual warfare can prevent abductions. Further, that folks with a brief long ago exposure to Sunday School have halted abductions in the midst of transpiring by calling on Jesus.

Where can such be discussed robustly?

Also, as a Christian, it is common, virtually assured, that any significant issue which crosses any sort of world view/ cosmological/ philosophical/ spiritual turf is likely to have a component automatically requiriing some spiritual/Christian flavored comment, if I'm to comment at all--unless I ruthlessly censor every word and nuance.

Even when I have tried to be very sparse, low level etc. in mentioning some aspect of a comment about ET's abductions, END TIMES CONSPIRACIES etc. Many mods have been very harsh and many members just as harsh in insisting that I take all such comments to some Christian forum. Actually, many of such assaults can go on for many posts with some mods engaging in them as ruthlessly as some members--with obvious impunity. Rather off-putting to say the least. Usually, the very small minority of Christians daring to show up or speak up in the least on such a topic are hounded off the thread post haste or at least as soon as many harshly abusive members can wear the Christians down.

But the topic is NOT ON/IN an ATS Christian forum. Indeed, there doesn't seem to be a place where the intersections of such PRESUMED CROSS-TOPIC subjects can be discussed on ATS.

I understand that most of the mods are atheists/agnostics and that some of them are logically and demonstrably quite hostile to any Christians that show up on that board. Also, that volunteer mods are not exactly easy to come by of any quality and trustworthiness. And, that this often enough presents problems in managing mods and super mods with strong biase.

That resutls, in the case of the USA in a forum where 80% or so of the USA population is treated so much like last class citizens that they'd better be of very stout stuff if they want to even show their little pinky finger in a thread.

I think much of the time, many Christians just hide their world-view/cosmology rather than put up with all the flack. That's MUCH more than a little sad.

It appears to be the case that the coming 12 months may be the most dramatic 12 months of the last many hundred years. Some of us are convinced that the forces of good and evil are gearing up for the literal Armageddon not too many years hence.

In any case, to have one major value orientation which has contained and demonstrated the massive amount of good works in education, hospitals, and a list of other ways for the last 2,000 years . . . which has fostered much of the world's best art of the last 2000 years . . . as well as the world's best literature . . . to have that value orientation soooooo muffled to even silenced on so many critical threads of importance in the broad areas ATS covers . . . is beyond--well beyond deplorable and idiotic.

I don't know what the answer is. I can hear the wails and protests already to this post. I sure would appreciate the 3 Amigo's giving this set of problems some serious thought and a better solution than I've seen heretofore and than I see on this thread.

I greatly appreciate ATS.

I appreciate the efforts to clean up the software and make it more navigable.

I appreciate efforts to make it easier to see our posts and responses to them. I hope those efforts continue to improve things.

Thank you for doing a lot of things well and right.

I would greatly appreciate this area presenting better workable solutions,

Sincerely,

Bo Xian




posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by cavscout
 



Just think, if religious doctrine and it's beleivers had there way, our view of the universe would still revolve around the earth and people would still be tortured and killed to think otherwise.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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I think this was necessary, and I applaud the mods for standing tall and doing what they knew was necessary.

Religion and Science go head to head on the forums on a daily basis... no, sorry, every minute, not day.

These arguments get very heated. The proponents of science state their findings, and do not understand how the religious could think they could against those findings.
In turn, the religious argue their blind faith, and do not understand how proponents of science could toss aside their faith to pursue their findings.

This leads to two sides, unwavering in their view of the world, attempting to "convert" each other. There will be no conversion, and all attempts to do so simply amount to a lot of shouting and un-necessary anger.

Religious discussion needs to be herded into other areas of ATS and kept there, while discussion of evolution should remain in the science areas.


I myself have gotten into some heated arguments regarding religion a few times. Those who read my posts know I am very much against organized religion.
However, I also understand that the need for peaceful discussion is far more important than any religious viewpoint... and I will do my best to keep my counter-theist views under control.

I do however EXPECT the religious to act in kind, and keep religious viewpoints out of scientific discussions.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
ABSURD!

Every week I swear ATS makes me spit coffee on my screen and think to my self.. WHAT the HECK are you guys thinking?

Manners and decorum, they are nessecary for a smooth running atmosphere to create intelligent debate.

This is true.

However I must say that I find it so incredibly short sighted at the people ATS chooses to "point out".

Now now SO before you think I am just defending Masonry I am not.

Freemasons on the Secret Society forum grow increasingly, most of the new Masons in there are past conspiracy theorist FROM ATS >> including my self.

How is it you find it so odd that - and I quote - "groups of people" who are having their institution, philosophy and way of life attacked respond, in kind, with the SAME VIGOR?

Christians who have their faith attacked on specific forums are catagorized into "groups of people" because they share a like minded belief in their religion and defend it, because it is who they are. How dare ATS group them like that..

They are not a group. They are individuals. Just as in Freemasonry every Freemason in the Forum is an INDIVIDUAL and DO NOT ACT IN ACCORDANCE WITH ONE ANTOHER TO FORM A "GROUP".

Why are people against Christianity not grouped into "groups of people" .. why, I do believe ATS would have a "gang stalking" group of anti Christians! ..

I am against Christianity in general, I do not consider my self a Christian, but when I say something against Christianity and several people respond in kind against what I say I do not think "omg, they are ganging up on me!" NO .. They act as individuals.

My last point is you will see tempers flare (as mine are now as I am tired of Masons being unjustly targeted by ATS) when you deal with sensitive issues on ATS where a debate forumlates it's self around SOME ONE ELSES beliefs!

Race, Religion, Philosophy, Politics, Nationality.

These are things that will be highly high strung debates, warns will fly, threads will get off topic.

Not justifying bad behavior, just saying IT SHOULD BE EXPECTED.

And ATS should not decide which side to side with! .. It is quite obvious when you say "Freemasons grouping together" and "Christians grouping together" and no doubt in race threads and political threads you choose one side to say "ah, they are causing ALL the problems!"

If your going to create a forum where people's ways of life are disected, INSULTED, scrutinized and balatently attacked you should expect people to respond with the same vigor.

I suppose the Christian population should just roll over and not partake in debate huh?

Let me make it clear to you SO .. Freemasons, and Christians for that matter do not collaborate in some grand scheme to "attack" people who oppose them.

I believe the problem ATS is having is over generalization and stereotyping.

Civility And Decorum Are Expected

To this I agree. I think ATS is just going about it all the wrong way.

In the end I think we must decide.. is this an intelligent forum for intelligent debate or is this just another conspiracy forum, and opposers to conspiracies are not welcomed?

Just my opinion, don't hate me for it.



My sentiments EXACTLY...!!!

I'm afraid that this is tantamount to "SEGREGATION"...we all know how well that went.

www.remembersegregation.org...

Besides, I'm not a PC kind of guy, I think it is subversive to restrict speech for ANY reason.

In fact, there is no good reason at all to restrict speech, they're only sad excuses for manipulative laws to control people.

I realize, there has to be some controls on BEHAVIOR, And I'm not advocating bad behavior either,

but separating evolution, and or atheism, from creation, is like trying to separate the white from the

yolk on an already scrambled egg!

.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by Allred5923
[Golfers clap in the back-round, 'silently']
Don't you get it? it is no "DEBATE" , there is no conspiracy produced by "Atheists" there is nothing more than you defending something that you whole hardily believe that everyone else around you should believe,,,, I don't freaking get any of your so called "Religion is the only way" scenario's.
It is not "Here" and not definitely not "NOW" in any respect, "It Lay's with in your selves, not the ATS public."


For one, you are being extremely rude to multiple members for seemingly no reason other than your disdain for their opinions or beliefs. Is anyone attacking yours? Telling you not to post, telling you to go to a UFO convention to talk crazy theories on little green men traversing wormholes in outer space to come mutilate our hamburger stock? Anyone can change their choice of words to reflect having poor character, im just curious why you are doing this unprovoked? No one called you out, quoted any of your initial replies or anything. You even had one removed and a warn from the mod. Maybe you should cool your head because you're really coming off as someone who'd be inclined to inflict pain and/or death on people, believers, because you dislike them, make that hate them, so much. But that is just how you are flavoring your posts, God only knows what the real reason is.

In defense of Rockpuck,
No one is trying to debate except you. We are not so foolish to try to take a thread made by the owner of this website, announcing changes to it because of problems with people arguing over religion (gee, could it be that certain people have a genuinely rotten attitude on the matter? hmm.. i wonder who), only to turn around and try to argue / debate about religion? No, we're not that dense, and from my reading of Rockpuck's posts, he hasn't tried to engage in any debate, you simply didn't like what he had to say. Heck, i barely said anything @ all in my previous post and you added me as your foe on the simple basis that i called myself a "believer", sheesh. This place would be in a poor state if every believer foe'd every atheist and vice versa.

Can you please stop making the "Go to Church!" demanding comments? No one is trying to preach a single thing here, no one has quoted a single scripture here. It's just downright inappropriate and I can tell you are purposefully trying to incite certain people with comments like this.

Just a clarification on the portion of your post I quoted up top. Rockpuck, nor most of the believers on ATS, wholeheartedly believe that everyone around them, aka the human race, should all have the exact same religion as they do. No one makes those statements because they're silly. Only Jihadi's would post up something like that. Next, we don't say "Religion is the only way", because it's not. Religion is a word that gets thrown around too much. Believing in God and obeying God's commandments does not make you Religious, or part of a Religion, it simply makes you a believer, and a spiritually aware individual (aware of one's place in the cosmos).

In short, no one is attacking you, trying to debate you, or anything like this. Could you please stop being so purposefully disrespectful towards certain ATS members because of their beliefs, thanks.

Sincerely,
A guy you set as your foe because he called himself a believer

[edit on 6/11/2008 by runetang]



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Peepers
Religion, the most corrupt, destructive, evil, absurd, false, fable, ficticious mind control tale(s) ever devised by the mind of man.

Ya would think there god would at least stop by for the hearing and check in for there defense. I rest my case..............


This! This Post RIGHT THERE is the problem. First peepers, post by it's very content is designed to do one thing andd one thing only and that's to piss people off namely Christians.

I guess we are supposed to read that crap and say "Oh my!" "I believe in evil fables and am part of the most destructive evil ever created by man!"

"That does it, I'm switching to Atheism"

No, ain't gonna happen, peepers knows it and I know it and althopugh I could offer a long rant on the positive affirmations that Religion has contributed to mankind, I see by the vitriolic tone in his post that THIS person came here to make anti religious slurs which are taken no differen't than racial epithets would be if he came in talking about hating them because of what they are. I can't argur this point from any position you could identify with unless you were a Christian yourself you simply wouldn't understand but I am asking that you GET THIS!

Every Christian here will know what I am talking about and they can Identify with it because they have experienced it. When someone has genuinely been inhabited by the God they asked to dwell in them. They have a symbiotic flesh host relation ship God they can hear, feel, experience, just as sure as I am sittin here sharing a seat with my Butt!

That means when someone says "I think belief in God is stupid as I have heard Atheists say, WHO CARES?? We dont and they know it.

Again they say it to insult and thats all and the idea of insulting the belief is not insulting the believer is the most over used logical fallacy they get away with. If saying you think belief in God is stupid, conventional wisdom dictates one only has to ask "what does that say about the believer" It is a back door to saying I think you're stupid when honestly, what ANY athiest thinks about it is NONE of our business when their business is slick tricks and slippery semantics to slide out of what should be exposed as discrimination of ones religious backround.

Gigatrox,, I want you to look at ANY Christian members posting style that has been here over a year and tell me if you don't see a distinct difference in how they deal with Atheists then and now.

Then do the same thing with atheists and tell me what you see?

It wasn't till the last two and half years I can see a marked increase in Christians willing to stand up to them without being manipulated into some candy caned goody goody Christian reputation to live up to every time they would say "Oh thats a nice way to talk Christian".

That wasn't woking and the moment they got a taste of that they dish out they whined about it and I would bet that of all those that hit that damn alert key everytiome that self concept they have, that's one molecule away from being an eggshell, Atheists do it five times to our one.

We can handle the smack talk and this is bigger than anyone thinks it is because this isn't JUST about our religion and their science. It is about control of the next generation. It is about getting a hold of our children and indoctrinating them with the scioreligion of Atheism via Darwinian Evolution. It isn't just a coincedence every Atheist I talk to here assumes he is a Scientsist whenever they speak for Science as "we in Science" It isn't JUST a coincedence that of all the Science, Darwininan evolution is the one they react with religious like fervor just questioning it.

The British physicist, H.S. Lipson, has reached the following conclusion.



TextIn fact, evolution became in a sense a scientific religion; almost all scientists have accepted it and many are prepared to 'bend' their observations to fit in with it.


They have harrased Rev Tophat for his cure of Atheism but see nothing weird about Dawkins website test to see if you have the "God Gene" and how the "Rational Response Squad" can cure it.





Then Gig do a search on google just type "Ateism" and peruse the websites and tell me you don't see a people more pre-occupied with who?

US thats who and when the site isn't run like this one where they can have freedom to speak their minds THIS is what you will see







Then do one of Christianity tell me if you see anything so evil so full of hate and all the other adject bigotry not necessary but too much of an indulgence in their Hatred of Christianity to pass up.

You might find a few bad ones but they are the exception where Atheist sites are the rule.

I aint here to lead them to God and I couldn't care less if they all got to hell as that IS a real possibility. All I care about is keeping them honest about the lies from saying this crap about Science when its about hating religion, all the lies about the holocaust not happening, Christ never existing, ID not being a Science when ID IS Science and one of the projects they have called SETI is just one of the many areas of Scientific research ID'st are involved and and they are every BIT as much a Scientist as the Atheist controlled monopoly that discriminates against any dissenters of their evolution so they can afford to say Science supports it. NO ATHEISM DOES and they have a reason to and it is ANTI GOD.




I am here to set the record straight everytime one of them confuses a Christian babe in Christ with that crap about killing hundreds of thousands of witches when only a dozen were killed in Salem.

All that crap about the Crusades you would think they would go to school on us but no they want to start their own crusades.

Cavscout and Rock puck are the kind of members Atheists can't deal with because they are damn smart and they both made the most compelling arguments while Peepers ,, all you did was encourage me to have to set that record straight

AGAIN

- Con



[edit on 11-6-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


I think you make many excellent points.

A poster up thread mentioned that the fierely assaultive hoard [my words] that descend on Christians . . . are not treated as a group though they act like a group.

IF they were treated as a group--then THEY would be relegated to either oblivion because of their chronic harsh assaultiveness and insults or they would be relegated to a narrow corner of ATS because of their gang/group mentality of relentlessly assaulting Christians at every turn in all manner of irrationaly and wholesale lop-sided virtually totally emotionally screaming ways.

I've had such a fill of such things that my posting has just gone to very sparse and infrequent levels. It's just not worth putting up with their ignorant and outrageous assaults.

And that's sad. ATS loses, Christians lose, and the robustness and diversity of all readers and all of ATS loses.

I don't have a brilliant answer but i think these issues need much better and much more thorough addressing than seems to be the norm.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Allred5923
 




It's Rock - Puck. Personally, I have never had a problem spelling a users name, seeing as it sits in front of you to see, and copy from. Not entirely TO hard..


Well , I guess you are so perfect that you have never made an "Honest" mistake?



Actually, it's not. In fact, it has nothing what so ever to do with politics either. It is a philosophical view point that I feel, and many other feel, is an accurate description of Faith interlocking belief patterns, even ingrained into the subconscious to be implemented in everything you and I do.


Who mentioned politics, you are in the wrong forum. And as for the "Psychobabble" you are intertwining with a self analysis, I have no regrets of what and who I am, and not to mention, "Not imposing other worldly thoughts of another mans considerations" into any one's head.
The peace I find in my way of life can only be wished upon you and your thought patterns.


Unless you can refute it, calling me a Fascist really makes no difference to me.


Glad to hear it, then why the hub-bub over the acknowledgement of being lesser of a person then you are for not having this so called "Belief System" and the degradation that came with it?


I would like to make another suggestion (aside from getting your eyes checked seeing as you couldn't even read my name) and that would be to get a Websters dictionary, read the description of Fascism, and then study the philosophies of Fascism.
You apparently have an inept knowledge of that which you speak of.



inept
adj
Definition: clumsy, unskilled; incompetent


If you asked me, if I were a MOD, this would have you out of here in a heart beat, "Now , take that back!!!"




fascist (epithet)
The word "fascist" ( or "fascism") is sometimes used to denigrate people, institutions or groups that would not describe themselves as ideologically fascist, and that may not fall within the formal definition of the word. As a political epithet, the word fascist has been applied to a broad range of people and groups on the extreme right for the most part, but also to groups on the far left and most points in between. It has also been applied to

people of many religious faiths, particularly fundamentalist groups.


Not surprisingly, the individual, institution or group(s) called fascist often find the use of the term in this way to be highly offensive and inappropriate.




I was unaware that I made such a claim during this exchange? ..


'EXCHANGE?" get real, you were bad mouthing anyone who wasn't on your particular frame of thinking, and bet your bottom dollar, I will defend and deny any long breath belief you have with the facts, not my way of thinking imposed on you!!



Because of your typing style I am finding you difficult to understand. Are you implying that because Christians out number Atheist in these debates it therefore lacks logic? .. And you would rather remove the religious aspect to have all forms of disagreement cease so that instead of a debate, a conversation can take place?


No, "I don't want too hear about your 'Religious' implications and self absorbed notions! And if my typing is that unbearable for you, maybe I should be doing this in "Aramaic" or possibly "Swahili"?


It is entirely logical and reasonable that when a topic is being discussed that goes against the belief system of another member of this site, that they will add their opinion.


"You really don't get it "Origin's and Creationism" or "Religious Beliefs systems" what is on the threads as a title as we speak? Get over it, and don't try to sway the unintellectual mumbo towards me.



Again, you make no sense. To believe in only your self is to deny every belief system. It's simply the rejection of all religious institutions and philosophies, and is in it's self a philosophy that borders religion in the sense that you worship the void of a deity rather then the deity it's self. If scientific theories (and they are only theories) replace the need for a deity, in an obscure way it could be said that THAT is the God to which you subscribe.


How many times can a guy/gal use the word "Sense"? Philosophy is a good thing, it allows us to be able to understand the rhetorical and conversational parts of our lives, not to be slathered outwardly with a frothy mouth and unjust comments.
And "Yes", I only believe in myself, I am an Atheist , nothing more nothing less, a live and breathing , "Breathing your precious air.." So, guess I am a reality as well, "Philosophy and religion?" Sheesh, got to do better than that "ROCK ----P---UCK" is the spelling to your approval, geesh, I truly hope so.



So just like Christians don't like their beliefs being scrutinized, you also do not like your beliefs scrutinized. That is both inwardly destructive as well as cowardly.


You know, when I was younger I was raised by farmers from the central US, and I was brought up to know that there was a right time to say something, and there was a very wrong time to say something.
This is one of those times where I have to let myself think it would of been the "Wrong" time to say something.
Talk all you want, "To people that want to hear it."
You have manged to create a possible dislike for the words you are using against me.
And I never scrutinized any religion for that matter, I just don't care to hear about it, one way or the other, go to those forums and post, they will accept your "Ideologies" with open arms I am sure.



You preach to me of acceptance and acknowledging differences when you shun the debate of those who oppose your own way of thinking? Hypocritical, at best and a complete logical fallacy to say that you, a man who rejects peoples of faith, are also accepting and understanding.


Listen "Rock--P--uck",
I have no desire to preach, and if you think I was preaching, you are reading me way off of base!
"Hypocritical at best" , "Complete logical fallacy", "A man who rejects Faith", what are trying to do here, I am a bit ticked by "ALL" of your remarks, and I hope that someone of importance comes across them to either set you straight with your forum etiquette or a proper way of understanding that you can't read posts angrily and closed minded form your points of views.
I am not pushing ":Atheism" on you at all, I was just making my piece heard for the fact of the religious discussions are a truly one sided and self implying power of no acceptance, as you have so kindly provided by your post to me .
"I AM Atheist!!" I have no religion, and I definitely don't preach, I have a point of view, but I also have a thing called logical common sense, for the most part.
There is nothing I believe in, and nothing you can show me to make a difference at this stage of conversation, as far as I can tell, "My worst day was probably one of your best days."
Keep it to yourself, or share it with people that want to hear about "Your points of View."



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


By the way--an administrivia question.

Is it just happening to me or what?

I notice that my points have not changed for an unknown number of posts. What's going on with that?

Is it happening to anyone else's points?



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 11:26 PM
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The point has been made, and the nature of the announcement made clear.

This thread is now closed. Any commentary of concern over the site management aspect of this decision should be directed to the ATS Issues Thread.



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