Freemasons and Power

reply to post by applebiter


Just wondering why you have not responded to my post, which addressed the .. original topic .. of the thread.

I read your post and took it in. I understand you.

Revolutions happen low to the ground. We don't have to be political to be revolutionaries. After all, on paper, our government (speaking as an American citizen), is the best one going, as far as I'm concerned. What is needed is a change of heart. A cultural shift towards finding what it means to be good. What is good?

Originally posted by applebiter
This is all fascinating, watching it through the other side of the prism. I should probably point out some things to make them clear.

I never suggested that the inner lodge was evil, nor did I suggest that the higher one climbs in the ranks of masonry the closer one comes to the inner lodge. File both of those notions away, and take them out later for a good laugh.

When I said we are all proxies for powers and principalities beyond our comprehension, I meant it. I didn't say that somehow I am privy to the secrets of the universe and you're not. Most of my intellectual searching has led me along the likes of Daniel C. Dennett, Richard Dawkins, Steven Pinker, etc.. Physicalist, materialist scientists who will corroborate my statement using a model of the universe they understand. When Dawkins, for example, suggests that human beings are little more than lumbering robots designed to haul our DNA around, he was suggesting an ultimate (or transcendent) explanation for the limits of our self-knowledge. No woo-woo factor, no magical thinking, and no safron robes required. On the other hand, to a worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish. I don't totally agree with any of these folks, and I think this is the healthy way to be. We somehow have this idea that if a person is brilliant in one area, that his opinions on everything else must be valid, too. Crap. Aristotle was brilliant, but his ethical theories were done better and with more punch by Socrates, in my opinion. Plato was brilliant, but also a putz who thought mirth and irreverence were bad qualities.

There are other notions that people should disabuse themselves of, as well. One can have an experience that is impossible to describe in language, but that doesn't make them "enlightened" in any sense other than they have caught a glimpse of something that is ordinarily quite hidden. It happened to me, and I held the experience close to me for a very long time. It doesn't mean I can move objects with my mind, and it doesn't mean that I suddenly know all the answers. It also doesn't mean that I must now be stoic, patient, wise, humble, or inscrutable. I have never suffered fools well, and this hasn't changed.

So you have a plan for balance?

I'm watching it unfold.

There are bad apples in every barrel but the Masons are very powerful and the bad apples among the Masons are very powerful.

I don't care much for the survival of societies with control/possession of significant knowledge or influence that negatively impacts people.

Regarding its fairly recent 'good works' it does for the public, the reality is that ancient secret societies are simply responding to the common good of mankind, an survival response in this internet age which they increasingly have had to adopt to avoid becoming the justified target and blame of much of the world's overall lack of societal progress.

Secret societies are about money and control, and it is what has destroyed the world. Anyone who is generally benevolent and who is thinking of joining the Masons or any secret society in a bid to change it from the inside out will be sadly mistaken. There will be a 'glass ceiling' for these people.

Glass ceiling. Hehehe. Indeed.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by applebiter

 

Just wondering why you have not responded to my post, which addressed the .. original topic .. of the thread.

Im wondering why you havent responded to mine about how you were indoctrinated? Body-blood relative, mind/soul searching, or the spirit and will of GOD?

reply to post by applebiter

What is good?

That's perception.

daemonicsoul

Already answered you?

The Church for one raised in faith. The Illuminati for those who believe the truth is hidden. UFOs for those who have been injured. Many paths to healing. Many paths to God. You must build your own ladder with faith, hope, and love, and then climb it. Stop paying attention to what the other one is doing. What are you looking for?

reply to post by applebiter


This is pretty standard new age syncretic religion propaganda. Which is funny because as I said before, new age propaganda has been recycled for thousands of years and really isn't new. People find out its non sense and it fades, then someone "rediscovers it" and it is the fad for a while. Its all nice and lovely and great for you if you believe it. But I do not see how this relates to the topic if "Freemasons and Power."

From Wikipedia:

Propaganda is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive narrative of the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.

Who is the propagandist? Where did all of this start?

Originally posted by star in a jar
There are bad apples in every barrel but the Masons are very powerful and the bad apples among the Masons are very powerful.

If masons had half the great power ascribed to them by the conspiracy theorists, and they were as bad as the conspiracy theorists claim, the conspiracy theorists wouldn't be alive. Unfortunately...the fraternity is neither powerful nor bad. The bad apples act bad of their own accord and when they are found out, are no longer members.

Originally posted by star in a jar
I don't care much for the survival of societies with control/possession of significant knowledge or influence that negatively impacts people.

Me either! Which is part of the allure of masonry, there is no control/possession or negative impacts. Nor is there anything secret.

Originally posted by star in a jar
Regarding its fairly recent 'good works' it does for the public, the reality is that ancient secret societies are simply responding to the common good of mankind, an survival response in this internet age which they increasingly have had to adopt to avoid becoming the justified target and blame of much of the world's overall lack of societal progress.

The problem with that is that masonry has always played a major role in charity - even before conspiracy theorists pop up to accuse them of all manner of evil things. I actually blame the world's lack of societal process due to the belief in some conspiracy theories. If people would stop taking benevolent groups and demonizing them, they might focus their attention on the actual evil in this world.

Originally posted by star in a jar
Secret societies are about money and control, and it is what has destroyed the world. Anyone who is generally benevolent and who is thinking of joining the Masons or any secret society in a bid to change it from the inside out will be sadly mistaken. There will be a 'glass ceiling' for these people.

Then it is indeed good to know masonry has neither control nor money - all the money we have is given to charity, the remaining small amounts are used to keep the buildings from falling down and its not working very well since lodges are closing in many places.

I am a strong proponent of community service, and have been since high school. I have spent vast quantities of time organizing community service projects and helping with leadership development. Masonry has been excellent for me, not in instilling a sense of charity, but helping me further understand its importance in ways I did not know before. The only glass ceiling I've seen is from those who are to busy looking for a conspiracy.

reply to post by applebiter


As with any trendy movement, those who spread the propaganda are quite numerous. However, since this is NOT relevant to the topic of "Freemasons and Power," I will refer you to a starting point. Getting truth about the new age universalism fad is not going to be pleasant for those who believe in it, but the peer reviewed research does a good job:

Tucker, J. (2002). New age religion and the Cult of the Self. Society, 39(2): 46-51.

You might have to go to the library to read it if you don't have a source to access academic journals online, but its a good introduction.

Don't be too hard on conspiracy theorists. There is a quote from a film called Stage Beauty that fits here.

"Exile is a terrible thing. Especially for one who knows his place."

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


Don't confuse the New Age Movement with religion .. it's a thought process not exactly a religion. Some do create religions or supposedly "bring back" religions but, to be quite honest those are the confused ones. And as a practicer of an ancient religion I find it insulting to be called a Fad because teenagers like to dress in robes and cut pentagrams into their arms because they believe the "paganism" they represent is .. something, when in actuality it is nothing at all except confused disturbed children.

The New Age philosophies and concepts are in fact slowly but surely trickling their way into Freemasonry. Some like me will assist them getting embedded in Masonry and the Craft can resort BACK to what it once was.

So..

New Age is one thing.
Ancient religions are another.
Disturbed suburban white kids is another.
Random incoherent babbling I suppose could be another.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by applebiter

 

This is pretty standard new age syncretic religion propaganda. Which is funny because as I said before, new age propaganda has been recycled for thousands of years and really isn't new. People find out its non sense and it fades, then someone "rediscovers it" and it is the fad for a while. Its all nice and lovely and great for you if you believe it. But I do not see how this relates to the topic if "Freemasons and Power."

I believe your explaination is pretty standard too so umm dark crystal woohoo

[edit on 12-6-2008 by daemonicsoul]

reply to post by Rockpuck


It is a popular fad to be anti-religion, and that fad has entered into the trend of new agers, but I had to study it enough to know its the same thing. The desire to separate the two comes from the desire to rebel against familiar institutions.

New age religion like a cancer that infects everything, but it goes into remission every few hundred years for a while. I have no doubt it will infect masonry over time before it goes into remission, and I will fight tooth and nail against it if it impacts anything I do until it does. Putting it back in the craft would mean it would be taking 5 steps backward. People have a right to believe in it, I have a right not to

You are of course free to claim its not a religion (all of the peer reviewed literature would disagree), but either way it has no impact on the discussion here which is:

Freemasons in Power.

By the way, paganism is not new age religion in the way I am using the term. I have the utmost respect for pagans, because while I disagree with it at least it is a real religious institution (albeit a lose one) that is not based on being trendy. Some people are pagan because its trendy, but its not solely based on that and some people join all religions when they are in style. If you practice an ancient religion that would make you pagan and not a new ager according to the academic classification.

[edit on 12-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

What does New Age mean? Because if it means sitting around, arguing over gender bias on the label of your organic soy milk, I ain't doin' it.

I have said it elsewhere before that all religion does on the physical plane is segregate people. Do they not all, for the most part, end up going to the same place as far as enlightenment of some sort is concerned?
I mean every religion can be looked at from the point of view that they "take care of their own". Because they do that is what makes up the entity. It is a survival mechanism of any organization.
The crusades and the Spanish into the americas are just some examples how the word religion can be wielded. I do not have any qualms about what people want in their lives as far as faith or whatever goes that is a small part of why I love my country.
There is no flavor of the month when it comes to the subject of any faith/religion/following. Look, it is an endless argument to say that any one is this or that. They all have less than shining pasts , Freemasons, the Vatican, Mormon, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all the rest- there is not one of these ideologies that has not been indoctrinated into any ruling class somewhere sometime.
I have always said about religion: If your not a monk (or equivalent) your only practicing your religion half-ass.

I haven't read much on freemasons, but aren't they like a homosexual group of powerful lobbyists, who worship Satan? Or is that the Bohemian grove? Either way..I wouldn't trust any of them! They are most def pure evil!