Freemasons and Power

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posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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I'm interested in the dynamics of power and secret societies. Maybe someone can shed some light on the issue.

If you look at the 20th Century's most despotic political movements, you will find them, in the Western world, all taking a similar first step in expelling academics, intellectuals, Jews, and Freemasons. Looking at Nazi Germany in particular, though, we can see that a fraternity related to the Freemasons, the Thule occult lodge, actually exploited and groomed Adolf Hitler to become what he became. What is the nature of the relationship between these lodges apart from shared membership?

Coming down from the political level to the level of the individual, it seems to me that people who are not Freemasons have a sort of schizophrenic attitude about them. It seems to me like they rail at Freemasonry and make all kinds of bizarre accusations in an attempt to measure the response. They are probing for more information. The reason I say the attitude is schizophrenic is because I have many times seen someone, who was only moments before angrily denouncing the mean old Freemasons aas baby-eating goat worshippers, turn 180 degrees on the idea that they might be accepted as members if they simply asked.

From this perspective, even negative press about the Freemasons is a good thing. It doesn't matter whether you believe they are evil or good, so long as you believe they are relevant. You bring them into being as a power.

People are attracted to secret societies either because they think they have the knowledge they seek, or because they are a back door into secret power. They sort of create the lodge in their own image. I think maybe that the lodge is there to help you amplify what you already are, so that you might be of service in some capacity to a greater work to which most Masons are not privy.

Ideas?




posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 09:36 AM
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i believe the real power behind freemason comes from the fact that in the fraternity everyone is treated equal no matter their race, their colour, religion etc. This can give the heads-up to people who want to make the contacts to get further in their life without the disadvantages that come with those issues



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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i believe the real power behind freemason comes from the fact that in the fraternity everyone is treated equal no matter their race, their colour, religion etc. This can give the heads-up to people who want to make the contacts to get further in their life without the disadvantages that come with those issues



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 09:46 AM
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I'd like to point out the fact, that, while some people join for power, other join for charity. the masons give over 2 million dollars a day to charitys, and also are increasingly involved with chldrens hospitals/



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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You make a good point. I have known Masons, and they are encouraged to give back to the community. They work hard.

I approached an old man in my old home town a few years ago in order to feel him out in regards to sponsoring me at the local lodge. It would have worked out, I think, but at the time I was planning to go into the army. We talked it through, and he recommended that I wait until I was settled somewhere.

He was a 2x Bronze Star recipient, and a veteran of the Battle of the Bulge. His son was a senior supervisory special agent in the FBI. I think they were good people, and I wanted some of the, well, nobility that I sensed in both of them for myself.

I'm seriously considering strolling up to the Western gate this week and asking whether I can join.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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As a Freemason, I can tell you that we are not a secret society, but a society with secrets.

I know the statement shown above will no doubt get a few people's hackles up but it is true, and if you pause for thought it makes sense too. Freemasonry has been around for millennia and as its name suggests, it grew from those involved in the trade of Masonry. Many of the secrets, passwords and 'special handshakes' were developed purely to allow Masons to identify one-another, or be identified as Masons of a particular level of skill or experience. By doing this, a Mason could prove his worth and be paid for his work accordingly.

Needless to say, most Freemasons today are not actual stone masons and the organisation is mainly devoted (in my experience, anyway) to raising money for charities and good causes.

In my own Lodge, we regularly raise money from events and then donate it quietly, without any fuss, to people or organisations we feel need some extra help. Typically we do this by spotting a need, for example reading an article in the local paper about the family of a person with disabilities who need to buy a special piece of equipment like a hoist or electric wheelchair, but cannot afford it. We take a vote, and if approved, we either send a representative round to the family with a cheque, or arrange for the piece of equipment to be bought and delivered.

No executive salaries to pay, no people with clipboards in the town centre trying to get you to sign up for a direct debit to a charity without telling you they are being paid £50.00 per day to stand there. We just raise the money and give it away.

Most Lodges (my own included) have one or two 'preferred charities' to which we donate money repeatedly throughout the year. In our case it is for a childrens hospice in the town in which our Lodge is based. Over the years, we have donated many thousands of pounds to this very worthwhile cause.

We do not seek publicity for our actions, preferring instead to simply help where we can. To be honest, it does give me a nice warm 'fuzzy' feeling to know that we have helped a particular individual or good cause if we get any feedback - some people won't know where the money came from, whereas some will, and they will usually say 'thank you' - and everyone we have helped (who knows where the money came from) is very grateful. I don't feel embarrassed about that - its a natural emotion as far as I am concerned.

I keep quiet about my membership, although a few close friends and most of my family know I am a Freemason.

It is true that the organisation is there to help other Freemasons as well. The same could be said for a number of other organisations too - from the boy scouts up! The basic thinking here is that if I am a Freemason and know that another Freemason is in trouble/distress/etc, then I should help him if I am able to, so long as by doing that I do not cause harm to myself or my family.

In terms of Freemasons being in it 'for the power' thing, I have not benefitted directly or indirectly from being a Freemason in all the time I have been involved (over 5 years) in terms of getting new business (I work for myself) or in terms of gaining 'power' by which I think the original author is implying some kind of power over others in society. I have risen through various 'positions' within Freemasonry over the years but you could liken these to the various positions in any organisation that needs some structure (e.g. Chairman/Treasurer/Secretary etc, etc) in order to operate effectively - there is nothing untoward about this and it does not give me any 'power' outside my Lodge.

I have never tried to benefit business-wise, in spite of several people 'identifying' themselves as Masons to me (whether deliberately or not!) during business meetings.

So, feel free to carry on with your theories, but as another respondent suggested, why not just ask and see if you want to join!

Oh, and there's no goats involved!!



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by applebiter
I'm interested in the dynamics of power and secret societies. Maybe someone can shed some light on the issue.

If you look at the 20th Century's most despotic political movements, you will find them, in the Western world,
Ideas?


I guest Po Pot and Mao don't count.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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I have to question the reading comprehension level of the last two respondents.

Slow your mind down. The Freemasons are an outer lodge that contains within it an inner lodge. The inner lodge is not contained within the outer lodge. Solve this and you will understand.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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It seems we sometimes hear mixed stories about these societies. It may be that there are different levels within them that most only hear stories about. There may also be secret societies hidng within them and using them as some type of front for other activities. Who's to say that these various corrupt peoples aren't hiding everywhere anyway? Even the catholic church supposedly has these people also. So, in a majority, they're probably upstanding societies. I've been lead to believe that certain individuals may be untouchable when it comes to certain crimes like or as having immunity from prosecution. The rumors of double standards may actually be true.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by applebiter
I have to question the reading comprehension level of the last two respondents.

Slow your mind down. The Freemasons are an outer lodge that contains within it an inner lodge. The inner lodge is not contained within the outer lodge. Solve this and you will understand.


I have often wondered why conspiracy theorists claim to have all this knowledge - in this case - about the popular yet never backed up theory there is a inner/high group above freemasonry that NO ONE knows about. Yet...you do. How can this be? I'm truly curious.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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I'm sure you are.

We are all just proxies for powers and principalities beyond our comprehension. All of us. The physical ritual conceals something else. If you don't see it, you'll never know there was something to miss. And you will continue along your path obliviously.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by applebiter
 


I see. In other words you don't have any evidence - you just think there is something. Your not the first person to have a "one ring to rule them all" conspiracy theory that attempts to connect EVERYTHING behind one massive conspiracy, but like them, you haven't presented any evidence for it.

Having gone through the ritual, and studied the ritual, there is nothing there but a very nice morality play. That you want there to be something more to it is not reflective of reality.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 06:22 PM
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And that your eyes weren't opened is no one else's fault but your own. You don't have to be a Mason to know what I'm talking about. You can only receive what you are ready and willing to receive.

not worth it...

[edit on 11-6-2008 by applebiter]



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 07:45 PM
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Again, this sort of "I KNOW WHATS REALLY GOING ON - AND IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME - THEN YOU JUST A BLIND SHEEP" mentality is nothing more than unbridled arrogance without proof. Until you have any, this is just a rant.

The evidence shows masonic ritual is a nice play that teaches its members about morality, mortality, and reverence for their Supreme Being. Its a very good play, and I enjoy it personally, but that is all it is.

There are none so blind as those who so desperately want to see that they create their own illusions.

[edit on 11-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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It's good that you enjoy it, bro, because all of that pomp and ceremony is just for you and those like you.

By the way, the inner lodge isn't necessarily the high-ranking Masons. Hehehe. But they will be glad to take your dues and bestow you will ever grander titles.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by applebiter
 


Dude, cough up something other than scoff and snickers or you're not worth listening to.
This "Hah hah, I know better than you" stuff is old.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:05 PM
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I can't do your spiritual heavy lifting for you, but I will toss out a few breadcrumbs.

The catechism, for example. Why do you suppose it is important to commit something to memory? How important is the actual content of the catechism versus the exercise of learning it? What's going on, here?

More important than this is the attitude you bring. Can you build a progressively richer attitude of sacredness or holiness inside of you? If you think the sacred or holy aspects are the fancy costumes or the mysterious script, then you are mistaken.

-----

To any Masons who know what I am talking about and are concerned about my motives, please do not be. I've gone as far as I'm going to go with this line. Our world needs more true initiates than the Freemasons alone can produce at this point. If you are a Mason and understand what I'm talking about, then realize that this isn't a Masonic thing, it's a human thing. Masons don't own this technology - it is a human birthright.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:13 PM
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Well, I'm a Mason and I agree with just about everything you said in your first two posts, except maybe that Thule had such an overarching influence in Hitler's rise to power. I was under the impression they joined the scene much later when Hitler had absolute power and was able to indulge his dilettante's taste for the occult.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by applebiter
 


This sort of arrogance is really quite amazing, but it isn't impressive. People on ATS do it all the time - they make post after post which are the equivalent to "I know all things, and certainly more than you. I can't say how or why, but I know everything and I know your a sheep."

That you want to believe a conspiracy is apparent. However, that is not reality. Lets examine the few "bread crumbs" for which you have chosen to gracefully to give to those of us who are inferior to you:



The catechism, for example. Why do you suppose it is important to commit something to memory? How important is the actual content of the catechism versus the exercise of learning it? What's going on, here?


It may be important to commit it to memory, but the truth of the matter is once a member is tested on it they are likely to forget the bulk of it unless they are an officer or actively participate in the degrees. In the case of masonry the content IS what is important, and implication that its anything more is anti-masonic fantasy. Members vary widely on how important it is to memorize it "word for word" accurately - I - and many others - are of the opinion that the actual content and knowledge of what went on is more important than rope memorization.

What is going on here is extraordinarily simple. The blue lodge (the only place where this sort of memorization is extensive) has a few but very important lessons which the fraternity wants its members to know. Since fidelity and the ability to honor your duties is one of the key character components of freemasonry, the two objectives tie in by having people memorize parts (or all, if your an officer) of the ritual and not revealing it - although we all know and don't care you can find it online in 5 minutes.


More important than this is the attitude you bring. Can you build a progressively richer attitude of sacredness or holiness inside of you? If you think the sacred or holy aspects are the fancy costumes or the mysterious script, then you are mistaken.


Somehow I'm sure your going to string us along on the same old new age (which is incredibly OLD, by the way) sewage that terms like this endear, but I'll play along anyways. Holiness and sacredness are functions of religion and spirituality. It has no place in Masonry, beyond an understanding that masons should practice their own religion and be good members of their religious community.

It would be pretty difficult for anyone to think costumes or masonic ritual are holy, since , not being a religion, there is nothing holy (or unholy) about it.



To any Masons who know what I am talking about and are concerned about my motives, please do not be. I've gone as far as I'm going to go with this line. Our world needs more true initiates than the Freemasons alone can produce at this point. If you are a Mason and understand what I'm talking about, then realize that this isn't a Masonic thing, it's a human thing. Masons don't own this technology - it is a human birthright.


Riiiiigggghhhhhtttt. As a student of religion who spent more years in college looking at religious movements than I care to remember, this sort of rhetoric smacks of the very old syncretic new age movement. It calls to people in cycles because its a way that people can "rebel" against institutional norms by joining religious movements that are outside of accepted boundaries of society. Thats all fine and great if you believe it, but it is not masonry.

No one has argued that masonic light cannot be received in places other than masonry. It can be, and is, which is why masons are prepared in their heart before they are prepared in the lodge. The path to enlightenment through knowledge is very open, and no one has argued otherwise.

[edit on 11-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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I stand corrected and rebuked. Clearly, I have nothing of value to offer one as learned as yourself. I apologize for wasting your time.





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