David Kay to Bush: Admit there were no WMD in Iraq

First off, many of you are hammering this PNAC theme song too much. How come you folks never mention this: "Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998"?

As for Mr. Ritter, yes ECK, you know me enough to know that I can't stand the man...not for what he mentions, but for his half-truths, double-speak, and his outside extracurricular activities. Those aside:
I'll defer to this:
"posted on 13-1-2004 at 09:27 AM Post Number: 328841"
www.abovetopsecret.com...


regards
seekerof

Hey ECK,
I admit, I might be more open to Ritter's comments if it was presented in a objective forum. But in a Peace Conference? C'mon man, he is just playing to that crowd.

and, who paid for Ritters pre-war Iraq visit?

(I don't know, I'm asking. I just remember there was something fishy about it)

The only thing I suspected Iraq of possibly possessing before the invasion was chem/bio weapons - that we supplied. It's ludicrous to think they had nuclear capabilities. That stuff's way to big to conceal (from our aerial gaze) and the the needed components much too difficult to procure without a loud trail.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
The only thing I suspected Iraq of possibly possessing before the invasion was chem/bio weapons - that we supplied. It's ludicrous to think they had nuclear capabilities. That stuff's way to big to conceal (from our aerial gaze) and the the needed components much too difficult to procure without a loud trail.

Can you prove that we supplied them to Iraq? We know Saddam had them because he had used them on the Kurds several times.

Originally posted by Bob88
and, who paid for Ritters pre-war Iraq visit?

(I don't know, I'm asking. I just remember there was something fishy about it)

He made a movie with a guy who I think was Iraqi. The Bush administration, once again grasping at straws to discredit him, tried to use that. It didn't work, though. The attempt was discredited. That's why you remember it only vaguely. His reasons were true - altho, he probably shouldn't have even dealt with the guy due to appearances.

To re-iterate, Scott Ritter served our country with distinction in the Marines and fought in the Persian Gulf War. He then went on to become a highly valued and skilled member of the UN weapons inspection team. His integrity is unimpeachable. He merely had the audacity to stand up for the truth when the powers that be wanted that truth buried. I stand by him, proudly. Semper Fi!

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Hey ECK,
I admit, I might be more open to Ritter's comments if it was presented in a objective forum. But in a Peace Conference? C'mon man, he is just playing to that crowd.

Until you're able to dispassionately explore issues and ideas from across the spectrum, you're gonna stay in the dark.

Until you're able to dispassionately explore issues and ideas from across the spectrum, you're gonna stay in the dark.

Much like Ritter spoke dispassionately to a bunch of Peace School students, right?

ECK, I don't think they had nuclear weapons per se,
but 'capabilities' are a different story. I guess we owe Israel some thanks for Iraq not actually having a nuke, especially a certain Israeli astronaut that died about a year ago...

What�s ridiculous here is twisting what Kay said to mean �Bush lied�. Instead, we should learn from him. Like Seeker pointed out, Kay said there was evidence the weapons were moved to another country. Shouldn�t that be looked into?






[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Bob88]

Carnegie Endowment on Iraq WMD:
www.ceip.org...

Dr. David Kay's unclassified, actual speech:
www.cia.gov...

No WMD, and your using Kay to say and vouch for this ECK and others?
Really?

Aiiigghhhttt!

Here ya go, from Dr. Kay's lips:

> "network of laboratories": ""A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research."

> "prison laboratory": "A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN." And elsewhere in the report, the chilling implication that the Iraqis didn't just have this facility, but that they used it: "Additional information is beginning to corroborate reporting since 1996 about human testing activities using chemical and biological substances, but progress in this area is slow given the concern of knowledgeable Iraqi personnel about their being prosecuted for crimes against humanity."

> "new research in... biological weapons": "New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN."

> "Actual live biological weapons": "Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons."

Picture of vials siezed from a scientist's home:
www.cia.gov...
Again, source document exactly as described in the letter:
www.cia.gov...

> "Documents and equipment to develop nuclear weapons": "Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS)."

> "Specially developed airplanes, designed to spray anthrax out of a small device on the underside of the plane.": "A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit"........
"two UAV programs that were working in parallel, one at Ibn Fernas and one at al-Rashid Air Force Base. Ibn Fernas worked on the development of smaller, more traditional types of UAVs in addition to the conversion of manned aircraft into UAVs....All these systems had declared ranges of less than 150km. Several Iraqi officials stated that the RPV-20 flew over 500km on autopilot in 2002...Additional work is also focusing on the payloads and intended use for these UAVs.... Iraq's interest before the Gulf War in attempting to convert a MIG-21 into an unmanned aerial vehicle to carry spray tanks capable of dispensing chemical or biological agents, attention is being paid to whether any of the newer generation of UAVs were intended to have a similar purpose. This remains an open question."

> "several vials of live biological weapons that could be used to replicate and mass produce toxins to kill humans "within one week.": "The scientists discussed the development of improved, simplified fermentation and spray drying capabilities for the simulant Bt that would have been directly applicable to anthrax, and one scientist confirmed that the production line for Bt could be switched to produce anthrax in one week if the seed stock were available."

> "the scientists caught holding these weapons ... admitted that there were large stockpiles of such weapons": ""The scientist who concealed the vials containing this [biological] agent has identified a large cache of agents that he was asked, but refused, to conceal. ISG is actively searching for this second cache."

> "Additionally, David Kay estimates that out of Iraq's 130 known storage sites, only 10 have been properly searched.": "there are approximately 130 known Iraqi Ammunition Storage Points (ASP), many of which exceed 50 square miles in size and hold an estimated 600,000 tons of artillery shells, rockets, aviation bombs and other ordinance. Of these 130 ASPs, approximately 120 still remain unexamined. As Iraqi practice was not to mark much of their chemical ordinance and to store it at the same ASPs that held conventional rounds, the size of the required search effort is enormous."


All said by Dr. David Kay, but he is telling Bush to do what? That they were moved to Iran and Syria? Seems, as mentioned by bob88, that this article is taking and using words out of context to promote half-truths and propaganda!



regards
seekerof

I stand by what I said, Seekerof.

Bob88: There's nothing wrong with investigating whether or not those weapons or whatever were moved. I'm just about 100% sure nothing will materialize, though. Look to the motives of BushCo for the invasion. At that point, it all becomes crystal clear. The Likud government's wet dream was for us to invade and occupy Iraq, also. That's no small thing.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I also am convinced that Saddam bluffed like mad MOFO to keep his enemies and neighbors completely in the dark. It was a very wily strategy that worked.

obviously this "bluff" didn't work very well because Saddam is now in jail awaiting probable execution...

"I stand by what I said, Seekerof."
Sure you do, I have no doubts why...

Remember this:
History is written and recorded by the victors, not the losers. as such, News media articles and such, over time, are relegated to obscurity while History books and such are updated and continually taught.



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by earthtone

Originally posted by Seekerof
Yeah..one day I'm going to have to face the facts? "Facts" as in what ECK?
Saddam had WMD?
Saddam was working with Al-Qaeda?
Saddam was a bad, bad man?

No one has to argue over the fact that saddam was evil and it's a good thing that he is not in charge of Iraq. However this doesn't mean that suddenly we can accept that that is the reason we Bush and Blair went to war, it wasn't. They banged in and on about the 'imminent threat' he posed. He had no WMD's. He had no army. So we have to ask what the real reasons for the war were. . .

From the report:
"We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN."

Now I know Bush bashers can read, cause you sure can find a bedbug in a haystack - I think its what you choose to read thats at issue. Try reading the material that is basis of an issue before flat out accepting everything you come across from agenda sites. Its easy and tempting for me to do the same when I come across material supporting my political beliefs - I'm working on that and have'nt been as bad on rhetoric as I used to be.

BTW, read Kays interview and his main message seems to be one wanting improvement in the intelligence community.
He wants Bush to say that to spur reform.

Originally posted by djs0ma

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I also am convinced that Saddam bluffed like mad MOFO to keep his enemies and neighbors completely in the dark. It was a very wily strategy that worked.

obviously this "bluff" didn't work very well because Saddam is now in jail awaiting probable execution...

Ah, yeah it did. Neighboring countries feared he'd use them against them. (As he once did)

And the propaganda machine in play for the last 12 years certainly convinced quite a few of YOU.

That's why it was so easy for Dubya to fool you. Congratulations.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by djs0ma

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I also am convinced that Saddam bluffed like mad MOFO to keep his enemies and neighbors completely in the dark. It was a very wily strategy that worked.

obviously this "bluff" didn't work very well because Saddam is now in jail awaiting probable execution...

Ah, yeah it did.

Neighboring countries feared he'd use them against them. (As he once did)

And the propaganda machine in play for the last 12 years certainly convinced quite a few of YOU.

That's why it was so easy for Dubya to fool you. Congratulations.

The bluff did work thats why he is in jail, and there are no WMD.

Originally posted by Seekerof
"I stand by what I said, Seekerof."
Sure you do, I have no doubts why...

I know what I know. And I have full confidence in my sources both public and confidential.

Remember this:
History is written and recorded by the victors, not the losers. yeah, whether they were lying MOFOs or not.as such, News media articles and such, over time, are relegated to obscurity while History books and such are updated and continually taught. when you're living through it, you see and know what you see and know regardless of what history books say. In this day and age, I'd strongly encourage Americans to forget just about everything they "learned" in public school. It's worthless.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Seekerof]

In this day and age, I'd strongly encourage Americans to forget just about everything they "learned" in public school. It's worthless.


You, ECK, are proof of that.

"No offense. Maybe one of these days you'll see things in a different light. That would be great, because many people follow you."

it wouldnt be great that anyone thought like you. you're dragging things on and the world would get nowhere - we were lied to? wtf are you gonna do about it? its happened now, everyones more aware of the governments lies.

you people take ur own country and government for granted - go live in north korea for a while!

Originally posted by COOL HAND
In this day and age, I'd strongly encourage Americans to forget just about everything they "learned" in public school. It's worthless.


You, ECK, are proof of that.

You, my friend, are completely brainwashed. That's ok, tho. If you are in the military, it's just as well. Thinking would be a bit above your pay grade.

I've not heard the first original thought come from you, Junior. Real impressive. You can't even comprehend this slight detail. And like your hero Bush, you're incapable of debating those who disagree with your narrow, programmed world-view.