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Prisoner of War

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posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 06:27 AM
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So you have been captured on the battlefield and you have been interrogated , ignored fake Red Cross forms e.t.c and you have arrived in a POW camp . As a POW even if you are fortunate enough that your captors obeyed(SP?) by the Geneva Convention you may not receive Red Cross parcels or have regular contact with your family . Putting aside the possibility that you could be tortured for a moment escape would be extremely difficult given the fact you would be under constent surveillance.

Only a very small minority made successful escape attempts from WW2 POW camps that resulted in anyone getting back to the home front . Even if you can get beyond the wire you cant just aimlessly wonder around enemy territory. You and your fellow escapes would need money , ID and maps e.t.c .
That aside you have to prevent yourself from going Wire Happy .

How do you prevent yourself from going Wire Happy ?
How do provide yourself with an adequate food supply and heating if needed little alone plot escape attempts ?

Faking insanity may be a way to get yourself repatriated. Should you not have fortune of the protection of the Geneva Convention you will likely face death or torture if not a combination of both . In effect you will facing a differnt ball game coping with torture and a lack of medical treatment will take the place of the danger of you going Wire Happy .

How do you cope with torture ?

The only people that I know of have any kind of training in this matter are those who serve or have served in special forces . You are more likely to end up behind barb wire for what ever reason then you are going to ever face zombies . Behind the wire you wont have your Bug Out kit or anything that you have stockpiled other then knowledge all of which points to your brain being your best weapon available .

Please be mindful of the T&C when you post in this thread.




posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 07:23 AM
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If one manage to escape, then next step would be to take out enemy soldier info carrier would be prefered as they dont seam to be stoped so often, take his clothes and proceed with the escape.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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Interesting hmmm, but where are you going with this, or to be more excact, where are you coming from starting this thread.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 08:24 AM
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I know that one way of concealing cash and small valuables is a 'Charger' concealed in the rectum. It is difficult for all but the most intimate search to get hold of one of these.
Another is a money belt. Sewing in maps and precious stones is another way.

With this you now stand a chance of bribing guards and getting hold of escape tools. Good luck!



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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Read:

FM 31-21 Guerilla Warfare and Special Forces Operations
TM 31-200-1 Unconventional Warfare Devices and Techniques
Fm 3.50.3 Survival, Evasion, and Recovery

What is "wire happy"?



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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If tortured, you spill virtually everything you don't know.

Question: Are you posing this thread as a post-SHTF occurance, or one as a part of a formal war?



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 01:35 PM
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In a true TSHTF situation, some have vowed never to be taken alive, and will fight to the death, rather than be put into a camp.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by WatchRider
 


I've read about the money belt in Bravo Two Zero, they had gold coins stitched into the waistband for bribing people, very good idea and if I'm remembering right they got searched a number of times and took a fair few beatings before there captors noticed it was even there!



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Topspike
Interesting hmmm, but where are you going with this, or to be more excact, where are you coming from starting this thread.


Well the Geneva Convention offers some subtitles to the topic no escapes during WW2 ever faced criminal chargers for carrying forge ID papers . Such subtitles do not exist when it a topic concerns other forms of imprisonment .

Also on a personal level I have an interest in WW2 and have read and seen my fair share of POW escape books and films . As I already noted under such circumstances you will only have yourself and none of the supplies that you might have stockpiled . Unless you have aid from the likes of your country's Intel agency you are going to have to rely on your and others resourcefulness to escape. You may need your resourcefulness just to produce every day items that one takes for granted .

WatchRider you have put forward some good ideas . If there is a regular large influx of POW then the likes of body searches may not be performed properly . Argentus I am aiming at a sort of declared war or widely recognised conflict rather then then some special forces operative who has been captured on a so called black op . However you are welcome to add any thoughts you have on this topic . I hope that I have answered your question .





[edit on 11-6-2008 by xpert11]



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 09:43 PM
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Its a brilliant idea to sew small objects to your clothing for tools or bartering.
If your with a group stay together as much as you can and keep morale up as high as possible.
Also if you are imprisoned for a prolonged period of time try to stay fit. yes it will be hard on your limited food. but when you try to make your escape and you have lost most of your endurance you are going to wish you worked on it a little bit.
try to befriend your captors. As unlikely as it sounds it could happen and if they like you might have an easier time.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot
In a true TSHTF situation, some have vowed never to be taken alive, and will fight to the death, rather than be put into a camp.


Uhh huh, ain't that the truth.

I may be out of ammo, I may be cornered, but you have never fought me when i have been trapped in a corner.

You'll get my blade in your throat for your troubles and ill steal from your still warm body every thing you have. Your friend too.

Only way your getting me is if im dead.



posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 06:41 AM
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One thing that is worth bearing in mind is that despite your best efforts and intentions you may still be taken POW . An example of this might of been a incident I read about somewhere that a allied field hospital still under allied command was captured by the Germans in North Africa. Wire Happy was a term used describe an unhealthy mental state that some allied POW suffered from having spend a long time in a Stalag . I understand the name came about because POW who had an unhealthy mental state would cross a sort of trip wire that lay between the men and the fence enclosing them . Crossing the wire would get you shot .



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 02:46 AM
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There seems to be lots of "you'll never take me alive, copper" attitude going on here. I tend to find this slightly alien, particularly to a survivalist mindset.

I've always been taugh to never give up. Just crack on and make the most of the situation. Every minute you are still alive presents an opportunity to escape. Being dead achieves nothing. If you're captured there is always the possibility for escape, no matter how thin. If you're dead then you've lost. No coming back.

We had some people taken captive by the West Side Boys in Sierra Leonne in 2000. The WSB had a habit of chopping peoples arms off and executing prisoners out of hand. However our boys never gave up, mostly because of the support of some of the senior blokes who were taken. Sure enough they were rescued 16 days later by a combination of UKSF and 1 Para. None of the captives died and all returned to work within a few weeks.

The most important thing for them was the mindset. They never gave up.



posted on Jun, 14 2008 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


Let me come with you...

...I can see, I can see perfectly...




posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 06:14 AM
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I think the idea of POWs is fast becoming an artifact of the past. POWs are the result of traditional warfare between signatories of the Geneva Convention. Since most recent wars have been between regular and irregular forces, it is difficult to have POWs. Note the US is holding "enemy combatants" not POWs because they do not come from a regular force.

What this all means is someone who comes for you, if there is a "war" they might not have POW in mind. Radial Muslims do not take POWs, they simply kill them later whereas most traditional militaries do not execute POWs. Non-traditional forces do, and with good reason. POWs take up significant and limited resources. From a tactical point of view it is far better to kill or wound the enemy than take POWs. If you kill them you reduce his fighting capacity. If you wound them you reduce his fighting capacity AND help reduce his resources taking care of the wounded. In the Balkans war, groups were just executed.

While there were some abuses by Germany and Japan in WWII Vietnam was the first country to successfully ignore expected POW treatment and institute routine torture and go for propaganda, points not lost on radical Muslims. .

Thus, if there is a homeland war, I think ones chances of becoming a POW are slim. It is more likely you will be dead or wounded.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Straight Razor]

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Straight Razor]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 07:59 AM
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Straight Razor I don't disagree with your points about modern warfare . In my opening post I did alluded to the fact that when you are captured you may not have the protection of the Geneva Convention . I have also already mentioned how subtitles(SP?) exist within the topic .

So on that note do you have any thoughts on how to survive capture by insurgents and escape ?

Cheers xpert11 .



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by xpert11
 


Yes, try to escape as soon as possible, within seconds, certainly minutes. You'll probably never have a greater opportunity. As time passes, there will be more security, more guns, less opportunity and more seasoned capturers. Modern advice for POWs is to defy and lie, then tell a little truth, regroup and still try to escape.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:00 AM
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Even if you have no plans or opportunity for an immediate or near-future escape, keep your captors busy and on their toes...make suspicious looking and sounding movements, noises, meetings with other inmates etc...the guards cannot be all places at all times, keeping the whole inmate population under constant surveillance...there will always be 'blindspots' in all but the most thoroughly well designed detention facility.

Keep your mind and your hands busy with anything...from cultivation of any available edible plants, to working on lampooning-impressions of guards and officers to keep your comrades in good-humoured morale, to recording movements of shift change patterns, or working out any other guard-routines with a mind to creating sabotage or diversions for other escapees

...the secret to survival as a POW is to never EVER let yourself feel like you are beaten and at the mercy of your captors!



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by xpert11
 



Prisoner of War. So you have been captured on the battlefield and you have been interrogated, ignored fake Red Cross forms etc. and you have arrived in a POW camp. As a POW even if you are fortunate enough that your captors obey the Geneva Convention you may not receive Red Cross parcels or have regular contact with your family. Putting aside the possibility that you could be tortured for a moment, escape would be extremely difficult given the fact you would be under constant surveillance.


When the US was attacked in World War 2, it had already sent a substantial contingent of US Army forces to the Philippines along with our retired former Army Chief of Staff Gen. Douglas MacArthur. The better trained and equipped Japanese Army rather handily prevailed over the rag-tag defenders at Corregidor Island, a fortified point controlling ingress to Manila Bay just off the Bataan peninsula. The survivors were force marched 135 miles back to Manila for internment. 3,000 men died on the march which gave it the name of Bataan Death March. (OTOH 10,000 Cherokee died on the Trail of Tears).

Although stories of harsh treatment and summary executions abound, it is notable that a very large proportion of the prisoners survived the war. A recent movie based on the story of the exquisitely planned and well executed rescue of several 100 civilian prisoners held near Manila showed the POWs scurrying about gathering their meager belongings in old cardboard suitcases. The point is, the POWs had personal belongings and the means to carry them in.

This is not to say I would ever volunteer to be a POW - I would not - but it is to say that I observe many if not most people who become POWs do in fact survive. Many captured people are injured from either the combat or in the case of aircrew, in the action that brought down their aircraft. Senator McCain for example, suffered broken limbs in the shoot-down of his Navy attack bomber. He was then assaulted by civilians and suffered a broken shoulder before the NVA took him into custody and probably saved his life.

More than one downed American pilot was beaten to death by the locals. (That also happened in Europe in WW2). That's not surprising to me if you keep in mind that only 20% of iron bombs hit the intended target. Hospitals, schools and private dwellings are among the structures frequently hit by the 80% of "missed the target" bombs. We label that as "collateral damage." Bombing private residences - whether or not intentional - is not a practice likely to endear the bomber to the bombed-out populace. The wonder is that ANY downed aircrew survived.

Another famous prisoner - not of war but of the NKVD - was the Russian defector Alexander Solzhenitsyn who recounted his story in a best selling book, The Gulag Archipelago. I have seen Mr. Solzhenitsyn on the tv and he looked to be in remarkably good health for a person who claimed to have been imprisoned for 10 years (1958-1968) in Siberia. It Is said 80%+ of the persons sent there do not return. IE, they die there. You may have gathered I am NO fan of Solzhenitsyn and I don't like him. I have read his book. He does not explain HOW he managed to survive. I must assume he was a collaborator. For which actions I cast no shame on him, but he offers himself in a very different role. As a determined resister. Unlikely!

Korean War. 1950-1953. We captured 10s of 1000s of Chinese and North Korean prisoners in the Korean War. Yet I never hear about us capturing ANY prisoners in the Vietnam War. 1962-1974. We sustained the loss of about 20,000 soldiers taken prisoner by the other side in Korea, yet I never hear about any prisoners in Vietnam except the 600 or so aircrew held at the former French prison nicknamed “Hanoi Hilton.” There is a lot to be learned about prisoners on both sides held in Vietnam as opposed to those held in Korea. OR, did we have a "take no prisoners" mantra in Vietnam?"

During WW2 the US forces were told to give only their “Name, Rank and Serial Number.” After the brainwashing episode in Korea where about 23 US types stayed behind voluntarily, the rules for captured personnel were changed. I believe the current rule is to resist if you can or if you want to but resistance is not required. The only real restraint is you should NOT betray your fellow prisoners.

In fact, the persons most likely to become POW types know either nothing or next to nothing of great value to the enemy. Technical information is better found in Janes and in the appropriate technical journals than derived from a person who can only operate the equipment. Strategy is easily discernible if not publicly declared. Tactics are what each side encounters every day on the front line. Knowledge of spies and double agents is not likely to be in the purview of persons engaged in mortal combat at the front.

We have a lot to learn about prisoners of war in Vietnam. Itself - the War - a subject most Americans studiously avoid.


[edit on 6/18/2008 by donwhite]



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