First Jury 'Zaps' Taser: $6 Million For Wrongful Death!

Tazers are a substitue for GUTS. In the old days a real cop would have fought tooth and nail before ever using deadly force, but now we are seeing most cop's so afraid of breaking a nail that they will never touch a suspect until he is face down on a hot street with his hands cuffed...THEN they might touch him. Cop's today are so afraid of messing up their hair or taking a chance of getting a bloody nose that they will mace, TAZER or shoot a citizen before they will use their hands.

Pathetic. If a baton doesn't work, get close and use a slapjack or leaded glove...oh, I forgot...you actually have to get close to a person to use those...never mind. Cops today want the arrest bagged and done before they get within ten feet on a suspect. If mace doesn't work then FIGHT for God's sake!! Get your fists working and show the perp that yopu are able to deal with him man to man. If that doesn't work then get some more cop's, but do NOT simply kill the guy because he is crazy or whatever and thinks he can win.

Many years ago there was a famous case of three huge guys from New Jersey, cop fighters, who were drunk and looking for a cop fight at a bar in a very classy hotel on Miami Beach. These guys were huge, animals...the smallest was about 6'6" and weighed 280...the others were bigger. When the dust settled, 30 ( Thirty) metro cop's were involved and the guys had sixty felony charges against them...of course the cop's won but gues what? They didn't use ANY weapons at all. The men challenged them openly to a fight and the cop's took them on fairly ( except for the numbers of people ) and sent them to the hospital before jail. But those cops could sleep that night knowing that they didn't use anything but their hands and did not abuse the men once subdued.

Their was a PRIDE in the old days that cop's now know nothing about. Now they are told to totally minimize risk to themselves and let it fall on the public. Recall that horrible school shooting in Colorado? recall that all the cop's waited and stalled and allowed kids to be killed so they would take no risk? SWAT teams afraid to enter because they might get shot!! Hey, thats what you are there for Officer!! Better you than our kids, right? Maybe in the old days...now these cop's will stand by and make sure that they are safe as possible before doing anything. Whatever happened to guts and glory?

Police today are sorry and getting worse. Locally, a deputy just got arrested for serious child molestation charges and the sheriff and a cop in the next county are being sued for excessive force...criminals with badges getting away with muder and still we read from those here that idolize cop's and are like teenaged groupies fascinated by anyone withj a gun and a bad attitude...sick. there is NO justifying the way cop's operate today..none at all.

That judgment represents about 1% of their liability in the various cases against them, I think...

The company in question has been completely irresponsible in marketing its product to law enforcement agencies and, not surprisingly, the law enforcement agencies have been completely irresponsible in their use of the technology.

Tasers are not safe, despite what the company keeps telling the media - the extent of the safety testing done by the company prior to marketing the Taser to LEOs was ludicrous. They claim to have thoroughly tested the thing, but their idea of thorough is laughable.

They only ever performed tests on a handful of pigs, before labeling their weapon safe and, come to find out after more research was done (by an independent group) - even the pigs were left with heart problems, and a number of them died.

The cops will say - "we test these devices on ourselves during training, and we've had no deaths" - this is nonsense. They DO light each other up to get a taste of the weapon's capability, but they DO NOT jam on the trigger or deliver multiple, many-seconds long jolts. The way it's used in the field is VERY different from the way it's used in training.

I'm all for the use of these devices as an alternative to lethal force, but the use of them as obedience training aids is criminal. Cops will use Tasers without hesitation, to force compliance with their orders, or as punishment for talking back - if they say get on the ground and you refuse, or ask why, they light you up. Sucks if you're a pregnant woman or a disabled person...

If you argued with a cop, would we expect to get shot in the chest with a pair of 9mm rounds? No? Then why should we expect tens of thousands of volts of electricity?

I think it's an unreasonable use of force in MOST situations where it's applied.

Many cops are so safety obsessed these days, they'll kill a person just to avoid touching them.

It's a dangerous line of work, get over it and get on with it. If you value your safety above the safety of the general public, go to night school and become an accountant or something. Part of being a cop is being selfless - putting yourself in harms way in an effort to make things better for everyone else.

A big part of the problem is the way the Taser was marketed, as a safe alternative to take-downs and physical restraints. The other component of the problem is the way cops want to use the thing, as an excuse to dominate the people who they're supposed to be serving and protecting.

The company should definitely be held accountable for the way they've lied and deceived the public and the police. Take them to the cleaners, I say.

Monday a drunk was coming at me with a shovel, after beating his wife...their 7 year old daughter and 13 year old daughter were both in the yard. Mom laying on the ground with a broken jaw and severe laceration to the head and chest...I told him 6 times...YEAH six (because of his kids) to drop the shovel....by law...shooting him dead was COMPLETLY justified...BUT...I shot him with the taser...because of that he dropped the shovel, hit the ground and cried like the scumbag he was...and now sits in jail...BUT..the kids still have a dad who can get help for his anger and drinking problem and MAYBE they can salvage a family life together.... NOW JUST IMAGINE THAT SAME SITUATION WITHOUT THE TASER!!!

I shoot the drunk with the shovel...kids are now fatherless, family has no income (he was the worker)...NOONE wins....so for all of you "taser haters" who think this was a GREAT jury ruling...you obviously aren't very smart and NEVER deal with anything that requires you to make life/death desicions under stress in less then 5 seconds....and STILL know that no matter what you choose...some idiot somewhere will think he/she could of done a better job...

Yeah I am sure the taser has been abused by some idiot out there in uniform, but the shallow mind to think THE TASER is the culprit...its just plain stupid. This verdict WILL make departments ban the taser...and then officers will have to resort to shooting or old fashioned --- kicking to subdue the drunks, druggies, and scumbags we deal with...and guess what...then you will come and complain about that, we will continue to get sued and people will still act like complete idiots, they will still break the law and what will most of you do....you'll make excuses for the guy who CHOSE to get high, CHOSE to get drunk, CHOSE to fight, CHOSE to run, CHOSE to kill.....oh thats right I forgot...we live in America...the land where "ITS NOT MY FAULT" has been taken to a new level. I guess I missed it where people ran around and forced you to drink to get drunk, or forced you to shoot up, or forced you to snort the line...PATHETIC....

That was the exact situation where a taser is a vital life-saving tool. But I doubt departments will ban tasers. They haven't banned guns... not in this country anyway. If anything this will make them think twice before zapping someone who fails to ask how high when told to jump.

Now that this verdict is in hopefully officers that continue to abuse these weapons will be held accountable for the people they murder.

reply to post by rcwj75


You are completely wrong if what you want to state is that the only way you could bring the individual to submission was by using a tazer, your statement if completely misleading.

There are other options like rubber bullets, pepper spray, baton, you could also just have waited for back up.

There is something to be said about tazers that really surprise me, the military has not adopt their use for MP's or security forces personnel that provide law enforcement on military bases, why? They are deemed not safe!! Just imagine how it would look for a MP's or SF's guy to kill another comrade because he was drunk or been irrational. And you would imagine that the military which buy pretty much anything they could get their hands on would have some of this tazer if they were allowed.

I will give you my idea on how a tazer could be used, rodeo! Bull gets out of control, bull gets zap! And they could be some other uses, law enforcement is not one of them.

Originally posted by Bunch
You are completely wrong if what you want to state is that the only way you could bring the individual to submission was by using a tazer, your statement if completely misleading.

There are other options like rubber bullets, pepper spray, baton, you could also just have waited for back up.

I can tell YOU have never been in any situation that requires the use of ANY tool we use. Lets look at from REALITY...not from the comfort of your chair. NOTHING, about my statement is misleading...its TRUTH and again REALITY!!!!

Rubber Bullets...MANY departments do not use them...why..because JUST like the taser they HAVE caused death..so whiny --- people complained they are just as leathal as a gun so MANY departments banned them, OR they only allow supervisors to carry them. So there I am..ALONE on this call with a guy coming at me...my SGT (supervisor) is about 10 minutes away...so much for the rubber bullet theory!

Next we have pepper spray...sure...let me blind a guy who ALREADY was swinging the shovel to kill/injure his wife...so now he can't see so he starts swinging the thing wildly...his KIDS are less then 15 feet away...that will go over well "COP SPRAYS DRUNK WITH SHOVEL, DRUNK SWINGS WILDLY AND HITS CHILD, KILLING HER" guess whos fault it is....yeah NOT THE ---holes...MINE!!! Why because you monday evening quarterbacks would then say I should of done something else to prevent it....

Now we move onto the baton...ok i got an ASP 21" baton issued by my department...he had a shovel ABOUT 40-50" long...hmmmmmm...a long handled shovel with a pointed steel tip and an 3" oak handle vs a 26 inch asp baton thats about 1/2" thick...yeah...like i said...you never experianced anything like this or this option would of seemed as stupid to you as it does to me right now.

Then Finally we have back-up....oh how intersting coming from either a NON LEO, or one that does not deal with high call volume. My backup was about 10 minutes away...why..because every unit is tied up with calls, not to mention getting to a scene through city traffic TAKES TIME!!! Now from the time I arrived on scene and got out of my car, to the time he headed my way with some bad intentions was about......3-5 seconds...basically I got out of the car and here he comes...so back up IS NOT an option...maybe in some cop book or dumb--- video, but NOT reality!

There is something to be said about tazers that really surprise me, the military has not adopt their use for MP's or security forces personnel that provide law enforcement on military bases, why? They are deemed not safe!! Just imagine how it would look for a MP's or SF's guy to kill another comrade because he was drunk or been irrational. And you would imagine that the military which buy pretty much anything they could get their hands on would have some of this tazer if they were allowed.

Well my cousin is an Air Force SP and they carry them. And another friend of mine is in the Coast Guard and they carry them. So the military HAS adopted them....FYI

I agree that the taser has been abused by some officers, I get that...but to group the tool into a catagory WITHOUT ever having been in a situation that calls for it...just makes no sence....especially when I have used it numerous times with VERY positive outcomes...not just for me, but for the idiot as well...

Originally posted by rcwj75
Monday a drunk was coming at me with a shovel, after beating his wife...their 7 year old daughter and 13 year old daughter were both in the yard. Mom laying on the ground with a broken jaw and severe laceration to the head and chest...I told him 6 times...YEAH six (because of his kids) to drop the shovel....by law...shooting him dead was COMPLETLY justified...BUT...I shot him with the taser...because of that he dropped the shovel, hit the ground and cried like the scumbag he was...and now sits in jail...BUT..the kids still have a dad who can get help for his anger and drinking problem and MAYBE they can salvage a family life together.... NOW JUST IMAGINE THAT SAME SITUATION WITHOUT THE TASER!!!
...

Nice straw man you have going!

Can you point out where anyone here has EVER said something to the effect of "Even people with weapons shouldn't be tasered"? Anyone? Bueller?

Too many cops are quick to grab their taser, thinking they are Judge Dredd: "I AM THE LAW!" In a way, I feel sorry for good cops when TSHTF. They are going to be the first ones taken out in large quantities. Police REGULARLY overstep their bounds. If anyone doubts this, do a search for "police brutality" on youtube, google video, and any number of other sites like that. If it was just a "few bad apples" would there be that many different videos? What kind of sissified wussy cop has to Taz a 10 year old girl? And how about those people already in hand cuffs? If you can't handle someone in cuffs, I'm not so sure you (generic you, not specifically you) should even be a cop if that is the case.

If you are a police officer, realize this: your unwillingness to deal with your own who are out of control make you part of the problem. Always remember this: our founding fathers weren't afraid of a foreign military, they were afraid of PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

Your unwillingness (again, not you specifically, but police in general) to deal with rogue cops gave us the Miranda case that cops so loath. You know why the Miranda case happened? Because the cops involved BEAT A CONFESSION OUT OF A SUSPECT. Had the "good cops" involved in that incident stopped it, it would have never resulted in the Miranda case. I'm just waiting, because it won't be long now, before the first case involving a "tazer confession" happens.

Know what happened in "the old days" when a car full of teenagers were caught with beer? "Pour it out, boys!", then they were usually sent on their way, or their parents were called. Not today. Nine times out of 10 they will be officially processed. Back then, cops were respected (as much as any teenager is able to respect authority). You think they are respected now? Not by a long shot.

Watch any youtube/google video where cops attack PEACEFUL PROTESTERS. When you cops make peaceful protests for change impossible, you make violent revolution inevitable.

You have to ask yourself why "regular" people are referred to as "civilians". It's a way to seperate into an "us vs. them" mentality. When that big shootout in LA over that bank robbery happened several years ago, guess who most people in my area were rooting for? Here's a hint, it wasn't the cops. And guess the demographic of those people doing the rooting? It wasn't anarchists, commies, young people, crazies, or liberals. Most were conservatives.

I will say it again: Police have brought it on themselves.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
When that big shootout in LA over that bank robbery happened several years ago, guess who most people in my area were rooting for? Here's a hint, it wasn't the cops. And guess the demographic of those people doing the rooting? It wasn't anarchists, commies, young people, crazies, or liberals. Most were conservatives.

I will say it again: Police have brought it on themselves.

Yeah now there is something to brag about!! Of course we are talking about LA...so its really not suprising. To cheer on 2 guys who fired wildly into city streets and had NO regard for any innocent people (kids included) and you actually brag about your citizens cheering them on.....thats beyond sad....but again...having visited LA...I am again, not suprised!

I was real close by in school when the north hollywood shootout was happening. Nobody was routing for the criminals. we (civilized LA'rs, a majority) all thought it was a shocking display of violence by these nuts in body armor. We were cheering on the cops severely injured rushing into harms way to make a recovery. a few cops ended up physically paralyzed from that incident for life. What people were disappointed in regarding the LAPD in this instance was that they had nothing to counter the guys with the AK's and body armor. the cops had to go to local gun stores to borrow weapons that would take down these nuts. you know one of the perps moms tried sueing the city of LA because when the paramedics came they took the civilians and police officers to the hospital first and one of the perps bleed to death.

Now I agree that the police in general have gotten out of control with the taser, and that most of the time tasers are used for torture, punishment, and to keep complete control over a situation that doesn't really warrant the use of a taser to do that. COps have seemed to have pussed out regarding not wanting to get in any physical confrontation with a criminal, but in the day where crack heads keep HIV infected needles in their pocket so that people can get poked by them and people will kill you for nothing I don't necessarily blame a cop for shooting first and asking questions later.

But I do think that the tasers are very abused by authorities. A really good example of how tasers have replaced good police work would be the don't tase me bro incident. THe guy wasn't physically dangerous, he was annoying. You can't go around electricuting people cause they are annoying. It was an easy thing to take this guy and drag him out of their without anybody being injured, but no the cops had to be 1. lazy 2. too insecure with their authority in the public domain so they tasered him to make a lesson of him to the population. don't disobey the cops even if what they are doing is illegal all by it's self. like illegally escallating to violence when none was present before nor required. In fact tasering the guy made the situation worse.

To be honest I'd prefer the old days when the tasers were locked away from the impetuous younger frankly green officers who aren't mature enough to handle the situation or skilled in policing to use the weapon correctly, without abusing the tool. Tasers were used for legit reasons back then now they come with cattle prod like attachment modes for "pain induced compliance" pathetic. it's now gone from a tool to disarm people in certain (certain-meaning limited- not most)situations tasering a woman cause she won't get off the phone.

[edit on 11-6-2008 by BASSPLYR]

Originally posted by rcwj75

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
When that big shootout in LA over that bank robbery happened several years ago, guess who most people in my area were rooting for? Here's a hint, it wasn't the cops. And guess the demographic of those people doing the rooting? It wasn't anarchists, commies, young people, crazies, or liberals. Most were conservatives.

I will say it again: Police have brought it on themselves.

Yeah now there is something to brag about!! Of course we are talking about LA...so its really not suprising. To cheer on 2 guys who fired wildly into city streets and had NO regard for any innocent people (kids included) and you actually brag about your citizens cheering them on.....thats beyond sad....but again...having visited LA...I am again, not suprised!

Bragging? Really? No, that is your projection. I was not bragging, merely pointing out a fact. A great many people are now thinking that the POLICE are worse than the criminals (rightly or wrongly is another matter for debate), and so judge accordingly.

Has anyone EVER heard of a prosecutor or police officer apologizing to an innocent person they put in jail? No, even when DNA tests show that the person was truly innocent, they still try and say that the person committed the crime. I've only seen ONE case, where a woman said "We prosecuted and convicted an innocent man", and she wasn't even the D.A who prosecuted the case (most likely due to her being in grade school at the time. ) Apparently, she has bigger testicles than 99.9% of all cops on the force.

Go ahead, ask a cop how many innocent people he has put in jail. Their answer will always be "none". Now how is it that everyone else in their jobs have had at least one major screw up, but no cop ever admits to putting an innocent man in jail? Think that is just an amazing coincidence?

Thomas Jefferson even said that without a rebellion against formal authorities every so often, it would be the death of liberty. And I think he might just know a little more about forming and running a country than you or I. Or every single person on this board, for that matter!

Like it or not, when a group, any group, refuses to police its' own, SOMEONE or SOMETHING will step in and police it for you. (no pun intended, btw)

In the past, people overlooked police getting a little heavy handed with truly criminal people. Police weren't satisfied to keep it that way, and have expanded it to just about anyone who "disrespects" them. In what way are you different than a gang-banger who will brook no "disrespect"? The fact that you have a badge? (Again, the general "you", not the specific "you". English seems to lack the proper pronoun for this sort of thing.)

In a major city close to where I live, a news chopper films a cop walking up and kicking a suspect in the back of the head AFTER the chase ended, AFTER he was cuffed, and AFTER he quit resisting. He was laying there on his stomach not moving. You know what the "investigators" into this said? The officer was "trying to push his head down" Stevie Wonder could have seen that he was kicking his head, not pushing it down.

You want public support? Start an organization of cops that makes it mission to get rid of corrupt and abusive cops on your force. I guarantee you will have more support from the public than you know what to do with.

Understand this, and it should be very, very, very scary for you. Average people now view the police as their enemy. I cannot make it much plainer than that. Not radicals. Not criminals. Not liberals. Not anarchists. AVERAGE, ORDINARY PEOPLE.

You my "friendly" neighborhood police officer, have a serious problem, and it is only going to get worse. And it's not the publics doing. I fear that when the tab comes due, it's going to be ugly. When TSHTF, bad officers are going to bail, because they KNOW the public will come after them violently. I feel sorry for the good officers, because they are going to say "I haven't done anything wrong, they won't blame me." Oh, but they will. Because they did not stand up and correct their own, they will be blamed just as much, if not MORE than the bad ones. Why? Because they KNEW the difference between right and wrong, and chose to do nothing about it.

reply to post by rcwj75


As part of my military duties I do have serve as a security forces augmentee and having work closely with them I can assure you that Tazer use is not allowed when they are working on a Law Enforcement capacity and I indeed ask then why and the answer they gave me was because is not consider safe, heck, they are not even given pepper spray for that matter.

While working with them I saw myself in a variety of situations including domestic disputes at the dorms, fights at the dorm, domestic disputes in base housing, fights in base housing, drunks not cooperating, members trying to fight us, drunks coming at the gate and been aggressive with us and we always manage to get the situations under control without using tazers.

Look I respect your job and I can not out myself in that particular situation but your perspective on tazers to me is wrong. Just because it prevented that you use your gun don't mean that its safe or that the next time you use it won't cause a fatality. The fact that matter is that they are not safe, you might kill someone or you might not and that's not the purpose upon which this weapon was introduced in Law Enforcemby agencies across the nation, it was introduced as a NON LETHAL weapon and it resulted to be far from it.

Cops should not be allowed to end the life of a person that they did not intend to kill and that's what's happening with the tazers.

Take care, be safe out there and thank you for the service you provide to your community.

its funny that they allways go first to the tasers when there are a large variety of less then lethal weapons available to be utilized in a dangerouse instance. after just a minuet or two searching and discounting all the variations on the taser and even the new bullets that give off a electric charge when they hit (talk about overkill) iv grabed a plethora of choices available.

1) good ol fashioned tear gas. i know its not allways effective as some people have a tollerence to it and its difficult to target a moving person with tear gas but in enclosed areas a few tear gas canisters could work wonders. en.wikipedia.org...

2) malodernts are useful as well. basicly its a stink weapon available as a spray gun and in compressed gas canisters. they make targets cough, vomite, eyes exsessivly water, cause nasuea create a gag reflex all symptoms that are non lethal but make the target have a hell of a time doing anything to be a threat. try fighting while you cant see have trouble breathing are gaging, vomiting and are dizzy from nausea. en.wikipedia.org...

3)cn gas also known as mace. very useful but hard to use in a combat situation with out gasing your self or fellow officers unless your wearing gas masks and again as with tear gas there are occasionaly people with a tollerance to it. but once again in a inclosed area can be extremly effective spray it in to a room or vehicle, etc and then just deal with the aftermath. en.wikipedia.org...

4) pepper spray . much like mace and tear gas its semi effective espescialy in a enclosed space but there are people with a tollerence. also there are some people with respitory problems such as asthema that could die from a gas attack and people who are allergic to Capsicum and can have a reaction or go in to shock. en.wikipedia.org...

5)sticky foam. when this was first developed and i heard about it i thought wow what a great idea (it also reminded me of a very old marvel villan who used to fight the human torch called paste pot pete). its a extremly thick and sticky foam that can make it very difficult to move or fight . but there are a few problems with it such as suffacation if shot in the face as well as removal of the foam witch would have to use harsh solvents to get it off skin that could cause rashes and chemicle burns. en.wikipedia.org...

6)rubber bullet. the rubber bullet is a nice less than lethal option that can be used with high accuracy and be used from quite a distance. the main problem with it is that a shot to a vital area including the head at close range can kill or severly injure some one. en.wikipedia.org...

7) the water cannon. this is a great option, its difficult to kill some one with it and preety cost effective considering its ammo is water. the main problem is that the size of the weapon means its only good realy for crowd control instead of individual threats. although inside a secured area such as a prison a fire hose can be used in the same manor against one or two targets with relative ease. en.wikipedia.org...

8)the bean bag bullet. this is one of my faves and from personal experiance i can tell you it hurts like hell and is very effective. the bean bag round is difficult to kill a target with but has significant stopping power. the range isent that great due to the fact that after fired the bean bag unfolds slowing down its velocity and cutting its effective range but when shot out of a shot gun as the one that hit me was its still a useful form of less than lethal round. en.wikipedia.org...

9)the plastic bullet. this is nothing more then a advance variation of the rubber bullet which is realy just a advanced variation of the original wooden bullet. none the less its basickly the same as the rubber round but from what iv read is slightly more effective but has the same downfalls of the rubber bullet. en.wikipedia.org...

10)phasr rifle. this is a relativly new weapon that i know saddly lil about but from what i do know its a laser rifle that blinds and disoriants its target, it has significant range and from what iv read is still not being used in any significant way. en.wikipedia.org...

11) flash bangs. these are stun grenades that when used create a extremly powerful blast of light that bilnds any one looking in the direction of the bomb and a loud bang sound that deafens and disorients the targets. this is a very cool option but as with a tear gas canister it is hard to properly target people with, it also can affect your own people and thats allways a bad thing and its of a lot more use when used in a enclosed space. en.wikipedia.org...

there you go just a few of the options available from some of the most common to some rather unknown but no less useful. these could be used to varrying degrees that dont involve using a taser which has a much higher chance of killing a target.

[edit on 6/11/2008 by krill]

Here in Orange County, CA, our Sheriff's taze cats at the local jails, they just got fired for it. We have some good videos of them purely being used for the officer's enjoyment as well and what cracks me up, it's on camera and nothing is done to the officer. I agree in certain situations but standing around laughing and over15 times, come on now that is torture.

reply to post by krill


Outstanding post!

I want to clarify my position also when it comes to the use of tazers by law enforcement officials.

I have a hard time believing that a cop would use a tazer with any other intent of controling a suspect. I know there have been cases of misuse but those are the exception, of the majority of cases that I have read about someone dying after been subjected to this weapons there are other factors that have come into play that resulted in the death of that person, given that is that I'm opposed to its use. As soon as the first death was reported related to the use of this weapon it should have been taken off police departments across the nation.

I think the problem is that there is no such thing as a 'safe' weapon. Police have to use some kind of force to subdue criminals and thinking that they can just fight all criminals hand-to-hand is not logical - besides trained police officers could kill criminals in fights as well. I do believe that cops tend to use these 'non-lethal' weapons more out of convenience instead of necessity, but I honestly do not know what the alternative is when it comes to subduing criminals. Like I said, there is no such thing as a non-lethal weapon - only degrees of mortal danger in complicated circumstances.





[edit on 11-6-2008 by zerotime]

What a shame. Once again the geniuses go after the wrong culprit. The Taser is just a tool. The Officer who made the decision to use it killed that person. Unless of course the taser became suddenly animated and self aware and jumped off the Officers belt and killed that person.

The real killer walks away unscathed and unaccountable for their actions yet again. Nobody cares because false logic is in vogue (4 eyes rolling for that one) The Lawyers walk away with most of the money and nothing changes.

This mentality is becoming a huge problem. Critical thinking must be taught in schools before most of the price tag on products is to cover legal costs.

Another obvious problem is that the Officers will start using guns instead of Taser's. Which would you rather be shot with?

You also have the problem that the victim obviously did something really stupid to be Tased in the first place.

From the OP source:

The jury found that the victim was 85 percent at fault, resulting in an apportioned final damages award.

reply to post by rcwj75


I think the situation you describe is a perfectly legitimate use of force.

And, generally speaking, I agree with your desire that we not blame the tool, rather blame the person using the tool.

However...

If a company puts out a product classified non-lethal (as it was originally classified), and markets the product to LEOs as a SAFE alternative, and it turns out the product does, in fact, kill people - well the company has some 'splaining to do.

That's my point.

Not that Tasers are inherently good or evil - just that the company making them lied and abused their connections within the law enforcement community in order to market a product under false pretenses.

And of course, my beef is also with the idiots who want to misuse the thing and injure or kill innocent people. Present company excluded, I'm sure.

There are actually several things to consider here.

Recently, taser was officially labeled as "less lethal weapon" from "non-lethal weapon".

Pepper spray is another story. Pepper spray can be fatal to the person who has asthma & other respiratory problems.

These after all are still "weapons". A police officer has several weapons he carries. From guns, baton etc.

Guns don't kill all the time. Someone also died by just being hit by a baton in the head.

When you are in a street fight, you don't really know what you are going to get. Police sometimes has a difficult split second decision on how to re act and counter immidiate threats using their weapons.

There is no easy way of knowing too on how would the weapons affect the person they are going to use the what so called "less lethal weapons"

IMO I think it is important to know what exactly these "less lethal weapons" capable of doing to an individual.

More research is probably necessary (that eventually lead to modification of these weapons) plus some stricter guidelines to avoid using it indiscrimately like to a pregnant woman etc.

Originally posted by Quazga

I say Keep them, and use them ONLY when you would normally use a gun.

Other than that, is simple abuse.

But recent history has show that cops don't behave that way even when ordered to. So, better to get rid of the Tasers.

It's easy to say how something should work in theory, but policy should be based on how things work in practice.

The police have quickly become more of the enemy than the protector. What ever happened "To Protect and to Serve". I have seen lots of cops that were awful arrogant when they put their uniform on.

Personally, I feel that rcwj75 was justified in using the taser, but unfortunately not all cops are this level headed. Around where I live, an awful lot of cops look like they are right out of high school. THEY ARE NOT MATURE ENOUGH to handle a taser. They order people around like they think they are God or something. They put cuffs on anybody they feel like that are even in the area. The good cops need to guide the young ones and help get rid of the bad apples instead of covering up for them. If not, there will be a reckoning day eventually.