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Creationists - Explain this please

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posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by melatonin
 



I've got a slightly related question. How do intelligent designers rationalise appendicitis?
Its an organ with no know human function (attested to by its removal in millions of people with no ill effect), which HAS clear funtion in other mammals. So its only use in humans is to randomly kill folk.
If it's not a remnant of evolution what the heck is it and why has God put it in us?




posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


If you want to participate, start an account otherwise there is no point in answering your questions. You could any number of anonymous.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by doctormcauley
 


Where the hell do you get off perverting my comments that way and accusing me of being a creationist after everything I have said? We certainly have an example of your caliber of intelligence now.
Go masturbate on some other forum if you think you are so damned funny.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Eyemagistus

Did you perhaps mean, Anunnaki, Nibiru, and Nephilim? (Typos on all three? Whatever you say, dude.) Is your statistical analysis as sloppy as your etymology? Do you base your conclusions on Biblical numerology? Using your own secret code to decipher the "true" interpretation?


If all else fails attack spelling HA HA HA

I never claimed to know much about that stuff, I would refer you to a member named "Undo" on that subject. I am sure she can answer all that you asked below.




Do you want metaphysical proof that the God of the Bible did not create life? Amino acids come in both left and right-handed symmetries. All life forms use the left-handed structure, not the right-handed. The God of the Bible would never have created life on a foundation of left-handed architecture. The Devil is left-handed, so only the Devil could have created life. How's that for Bibleogical proof?


How does that prove anything? Where have you learned about Gods Opinions of left handed archetecture?



True. One person in my family suffers from schizophrenia. I, however, have been diagnosed by medical professionals who determined that I definitely do not have it. I'm sure that is far more than anyone else here can confirm about their own sanity.
I had the benefit of growing up around someone who has difficulty sorting reality from vivid hallucinations. The classic characteristic is an irrational need for vast conspiracies to explain their predicament!

Sound familiar?


Yes I'm afraid it does.



No matter how I tried to explain things that were all in his imagination, he always had to add yet another layer to the conspiracy, rather than to admit that he might be mistaken.

I once approached someone right in front of him, whom he had assured me played a key part in a city-wide conspiracy to harm him. When that total stranger had no idea who he was, or what he was talking about, he collapsed in a fit of vomiting due to the stress he had built up over it. That is what it took for him to finally admit he needed help and get back on his meds.

Yes, I once had an undeniably profound supernatural experience, but that does not make it science. It involved four different people at different locations simultaneously, so it is not likely to have been any personal hallucination either. It was connected to the Hopi, not the Bible. I studied metaphysics for many years and have known scores of people obsessed with the Anunnaki, Nephilim, Planet X and a butt-load of other mythologies. There is still bubkus suitable for rigorous scientific study, outside of psychology and sociology, provided you could find any volunteers.



Like I said, it is new to me but I was impressed with Undo's knowledge of it. Ill send her a link here and let her decide .



If you had been more diligent in searching my posts,


Well calling me a retard twice and lieing to me about being a scientist doesn't make you the most important priority even the mis spelled words I had found in your posts weren't important enough for me to correct. I fugure we all have done that from time to time.


I would take you up on your offer to meet if I still lived in AZ. Give my regards to Hayden library, if you ever get to the main campus. It was once my home away from home. I graduated from ASU and lived and worked in Tempe. That was before the religious conservatives hijacked our government and decided we should fight oil wars instead of adopting a rational energy policy.



awe thats too bad, but I want you to know, I have read many of your posts and I know you are not an Atheist but I have to say it wasn't religious conservatives that hijacked our Government.

If you are talking about Bush? He isn't a Christian, in fact he laughs at us behind our backs calling us religious retards. If anything, you two have that in common. He used us but it wouldn't be the first time that has happened. I most likley share the same thoughts about that as you do regarding this Government.

- Con



[edit on 25-6-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 07:13 PM
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Where to begin?
First of all, I didn't say that labeling the Wedge document, "TOP SECRET, NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION," was a crime. I said it was a LIE. It was fatally dishonest for an organization claiming to be morally superior and that it did not have a political agenda. I called those who still support ID, “a congregation of liars.”
If you don't even have the tenacity and determination to persevere in getting the justice in the Dover case you believe you didn't get, you can't even begin to do real science. That takes real tenacity and perseverance away from all the media attention.
Instead, you just added another layer of conspiracy to cling to your delusions.

I did not merely attack your chronically bad spelling. I wouldn’t care, if you didn’t pretend to be an intelligent university academic. I demolished the credibility of the concepts you couldn't spell to explain where Cain and Abel's wives came from.
You want people to believe you are a faculty member in a university math department? I feel your pain about the decline in academic standards. You are a prime example!

I did real science in solar energy research and development for Sunpower Systems, Corp., off of 51st and College, in Tempe. It finally went out of business in the mid '80's after Reagan destroyed the alternative energy industry. Look it up if you want to. It was the biggest in the southwest at the time. That was before the internet, so you will have to use a library.

Jerry Falwell began the "Moral Majority" in 1979 and Christian conservatives have been the only reason the Republicans have been in power ever since. You don't even know the history of your own cause!


Originally posted by Conspiriology
... I have to say it wasn't religious conservatives that hijacked our Government.

If you are talking about Bush? He isn't a Christian, in fact he laughs at us behind our backs calling us religious retards.

Adding another persecution conspiracy to keep you little world from falling apart? (There is a medical term for that.)
It's true, isn't it? You just identified yourself as a religious retard, dude! You people are his base that has kept him and his corrupt party of criminals in power!

The Pentagon is lousy with Christian Zionists. You can’t handle the truth!

Originally posted by Eyemagistus
...
We have to survive Armageddon before we ever get to destroy any other planets.

...
BECK: Does it concern you at all -- we only have 45 seconds. Does it concern you at all that the third temple is really ready? I mean, most of it is sitting in a warehouse. I mean, they got everything ready to go.

ROSENBERG: Architectural plans are done. The clothes for the priests are being, being sewn. All of the implements for the temple sacraments are being done.

BECK: And, the red heifer was -- is this true? That the red heifer, they have to make the ashes of blah, blah, blah, of a red heifer. Couldn`t find a red heifer, and now they`re just being born all over.

ROSENBERG: Well, they`re actually being genetically engineered right now, because you need an absolutely perfect one. One was born a few years ago called Melody. She turned out to have a few hairs that were flawed. And so they said that`s not the one. A perfect one has to be born and then, once that happens, it will be sacrificed and the temple will be ready to be built.

They are talking about actual plans underway to replace the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Won't that be fun? The reason America is not mentioned in the Bible, is because it is destroyed before the End Times and plays no role in it.
Yes, indeedy. Those Bible psychos are going to bring on the END if they have to do it all by themselves!


Remind us again, Con-job, just how big was Noah's ark?


You cannot accept the “Intelligent Designer” beginning without accepting the violent, retarded ending. It’s a package deal with these people.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Eyemagistus


Where to begin?
First of all, I didn't say that labeling the Wedge document, "TOP SECRET, NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION," was a crime. I said it was a LIE. It was fatally dishonest for an organization claiming to be morally superior and that it did not have a political agenda. I called those who still support ID, “a congregation of liars.”
If you don't even have the tenacity and determination to persevere in getting the justice in the Dover case you believe you didn't get, you can't even begin to do real science. That takes real tenacity and perseverance away from all the media attention.
Instead, you just added another layer of conspiracy to cling to your delusions.



You keep bringing up dover? What about it? I happen to think creationism and ID are not even close to being the same so quit whining about Dover to me. And why do you keep saying "Remind us how big was noahs arc?" I never told you how big it was so why do I have to remind you.

Here try this *Click* That ought to help you try using cubits in your search. Usually about the length of your elbow to the end of your fingers.



I did not merely attack your chronically bad spelling. I wouldn’t care, if you didn’t pretend to be an intelligent university academic. I demolished the credibility of the concepts you couldn't spell to explain where Cain and Abel's wives came from.


Oh I see,, this isn't about the truth, this is about winning and winning REAL BIG! ha ha you. This is about your EGO

Oh yes I was demolished!

Devastated!

Why? Because I mis-spelled a few words I have probably only used a few times in my life and only just recently read about and you want to make a big deal about it. Get Over yourself hotshot things like that happen all the time and you are no exception.



You want people to believe you are a faculty member in a university math department? I feel your pain about the decline in academic standards. You are a prime example!


Oh brother, if you wanted to know where I worked all ya had to do is ask I never said I was a faculty member I said I would meet you there.

I know a proffessor and some other colleagues who hang out there. We have starbucks and some crumpets and talk science and some theory. Jeez guy I wouldn't have invited you if I was trying to make you think I worked there too. That would have been pretty hard to pull off. The thing is, we both know where it is and seemed like a good Idea at the time and I would have really enjoyed seeing you call me a retard to my face rather then the safety of the internet . I see you have some sort of fetish finding opportunities to call people retards, you're like Bush in that way.

I am certain that wouldn't have happend and perhaps we would get on with the subject at hand.



Jerry Falwell began the "Moral Majority" in 1979 and Christian conservatives have been the only reason the Republicans have been in power ever since. You don't even know the history of your own cause!


Guy what the HELL are you talking about! WHAT CAUSE!

I never said I agreed with fallwell you just keep pulling things out of the freakin blue dontcha mary.


If you are talking about Bush? He isn't a Christian, in fact he laughs at us behind our backs calling us religious retards.

Adding another persecution conspiracy to keep you little world from falling apart? (There is a medical term for that.)
It's true, isn't it?


(Shaking head like a damn cartoon) HUH???!!!!??




You just identified yourself as a religious retard, dude!


Bush calls Christians at a fund raiser religious retards and since I am a Christian ?? Oh I get it BUSH = Truth Religion = Retards Con = Christian so Con is a retard. That is three times you have called me a retard so Got to end it here. I doubt you are even employable and THAT is why you say you are self employed. You can't stay message centered you go off on little things like mis-spelled words the same as rainman goes off autistic if he doesn't get to see Judge Wapner in the Peoples Court.

You embellish your alleged victory in any argument and you have no idea what the argument is about or what your opponents views are. You have jumped to a number of conclusions that have nothing to do with me and on top of all that think I have some issue with dover. If you want to appeal dover then do it yourself but have fun finding the money to do it.

There are much better ways stated in the wedge document. Thanks for turning me onto that LOL I loved it.

By the way, quit lieing about you being a Scientist you are delusional like your brother was. Your age is somewhere in your thirties according to your other posts but even if you were much much older, your referance is a dead giveaway. You mentioned it was before the internet and out of business in the early to mid 80's using the excuse it was reagans fault. That was so I couldn't corroborate it.

Besides that, if it was before the internet and you were a working Scientist in the early 80's knowing how long it takes to get a PHD that makes you some kind of child prodigy that skipped through High School and went right to college skipping grades to get a PHD at a very young age.

Too young to be believed in fact. Most Scientists have no problem verifying ther credentials and knowing to do it without finding some defunct company to rely on. You were either extremely young at the time or you are a senior citizen that likes to call people retards and uses words like "Dude" and talks like a juvey. Either way, the math doesn't add up

You are nothing but a liar like I said.

Now who is the con job


- Con
PS: Please seek help "Dude"









[edit on 25-6-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Eyemagistus
reply to post by doctormcauley
 


Where the hell do you get off perverting my comments that way and accusing me of being a creationist after everything I have said? We certainly have an example of your caliber of intelligence now.
Go masturbate on some other forum if you think you are so damned funny.


Don't pay any attention to this liar doctormcauley, he can't follow the discussion and thinks this is some flame forum for telling people where to masturbate and calling them retards is all he knows how to do.

Sad is what it is

really quite

sad

- Con



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by pureevil81
 


actually maybe i can answer the question,at least give my OPINION on it....i dont think its proven by christians that they can trace the genealogy back to adam and eve,so i dont necassarily think that the earth is only 7,000 years old,i think the earth is older than that,but i also dont think the earth is 4.5 billion years old either,so my answer would be that man and dinsaur lived at the same time,or to sum it up really man has existed along with any other creature at any time,can this be proven wrong?..............remember this is my opinion
actually you can trace back genealogy in the bible,or so they say,i think they have dont and it goes back approximately 7,000 years,i have seen charts showing this,they trace right back to adam and eve....i have no idea just how accurate that is though



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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What if someone has irrefutable evidence that points to irrational impossible things being the truth. Who was it that said when you eliminate all the possibilities and come to the only possible conclusion it must be the truth no matter how impossible. Sir Arther Conan Doyle while on an opium trip I believe.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 01:27 AM
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There is no difference between the ID movement and creationism. They both insist on imposing supernatural explanations for the natural sciences that have no way to deal with supernatural phenomena. They both want to infect public education and public policy with religious gibberish and I am totally fed up with it. There is no difference between them. If it sounds like I have lost my patience, I have.

Why don't you do one of your "statistical analysis" projects on the probability of the supernatural. It will either be 1, or 100, which tells you absolutely nothing. Maybe you should do one on the probability of all the conspiracy theories needed to cling to your silly beliefs. All you have done is find conflicts in science. Big, flaming deal. You have no solutions that make any sense whatever in the rational, natural universe.

Until someone comes up with a way to detect supernatural forces, they are totally irrelevant to science. If they do, they will no longer be supernatural, they will be natural forces that can finally be studied. Electricity and magnetism were once in the realm of the supernatural, but they aren't anymore, are they? Diligent scientists figured out how to measure them with real instruments and discovered their role in the physical world.

Sure, I have had experiences that lead me to believe there is a hell of a lot more to ordinary reality, but I also have found no way for anyone else to access it. There are plenty of theoretical mathematical models with multiple dimensions, time warps and lots of neato stuff that only work on paper so far. Sure, a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, but magic is not acceptable in science, or science education. We have to get there the hard way, one step at a time.

Graduate students are capable of doing just as good original science or research as Ph.D's and they don't cost as much. You only need a Ph.D. to be called a doctor, or become a tenured department head.
I jumped into solar energy before it was even taught at ASU, or before special materials were manufactured for it. I used a text book written by Dr. Meinel, head of the Optical Sciences dept. at U of A. He headed the design team for the Voyager cameras that have long since left the solar system, if that means anything.
I happened to be in the right place, at the right time, with the right skills. By the way, it was north of University Av., not College. It's been awhile, but we still had newspapers and legal records. I do know better than to give out personal information on the internet. "Dude" is obviously age appropriate for you, and the word has been around since I was your age.

You don't need my help to find out when the Christians took over the Republican party, or when Reagan eliminated the subsidies for alternative energy so they could no longer compete against the heavily subsidized fossil fuels.

You do need a lot of help understanding what science is all about though.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by Eyemagistus

There is no difference between the ID movement and creationism. They both insist on imposing supernatural explanations for the natural sciences that have no way to deal with supernatural phenomena. They both want to infect public education and public policy with religious gibberish and I am totally fed up with it.


If the work of evolutionists speaks for itself so much than maybe you shouldn't interrupt. When you are right you can afford to keep your temper.



Why don't you do one of your "statistical analysis" projects on the probability of the supernatural. It will either be 1, or 100, which tells you absolutely nothing. Maybe you should do one on the probability of all the conspiracy theories needed to cling to your silly beliefs. All you have done is find conflicts in science. Big, flaming deal. You have no solutions that make any sense whatever in the rational, natural universe.


There's a difference between good sound reasons and reasons that sound good. Evolution is full of "stuff" that sounds good but it isn't science either. My silly beliefs? You can't expect people to see eye to eye with you if you look down on them. Maybe if your conversational style yeilded more light than heat, then maybe you would know you can't antagonize people and influence them at the same time.

.

Until someone comes up with a way to detect supernatural forces, they are totally irrelevant to science. If they do, they will no longer be supernatural, they will be natural forces that can finally be studied


Exactly, just because we figure out how God does things doesn't trivialize the way he did it,,

It EXPLAINS IT



Electricity and magnetism were once in the realm of the supernatural, but they aren't anymore, are they? Diligent scientists figured out how to measure them with real instruments and discovered their role in the physical world.


yeah so what.



Sure, I have had experiences that lead me to believe there is a hell of a lot more to ordinary reality, but I also have found no way for anyone else to access it.


You mean any other way that suits you.



There are plenty of theoretical mathematical models with multiple dimensions, time warps and lots of neato stuff that only work on paper so far. Sure, a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, but magic is not acceptable in science, or science education. We have to get there the hard way, one step at a time.


and you think Darwinian evolution is science? HA HA HA


Graduate students are capable of doing just as good original science or research as Ph.D's and they don't cost as much. You only need a Ph.D. to be called a doctor, or become a tenured department head.
I jumped into solar energy before it was even taught at ASU, or before special materials were manufactured for it. I used a text book written by Dr. Meinel, head of the Optical Sciences dept. at U of A. He headed the design team for the Voyager cameras that have long since left the solar system, if that means anything.


Ok


I happened to be in the right place, at the right time, with the right skills. By the way, it was north of University Av., not College. It's been awhile, but we still had newspapers and legal records. I do know better than to give out personal information on the internet. "Dude" is obviously age appropriate for you, and the word has been around since I was your age.


I don't think you are my age

yet


You don't need my help to find out when the Christians took over the Republican party, or when Reagan eliminated the subsidies for alternative energy so they could no longer compete against the heavily subsidized fossil fuels.


The Christians didn't take over jack squat they merely vote for the party that best reflects their values. Many times they get lied to or manipulated by charlatans.




You do need a lot of help understanding what science is all about though.


Science hasn't even come up with a better office communications system than the coffee break.

I don't think either party is worth a damn anymore. You sound like you got this HUGE chip on your shoulder and it's all Christians fault.

I get pissed off at most of them too but I still love the lord

nevertheless

- Con




[edit on 26-6-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 03:04 AM
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Con,

You try too hard, care too much. Some people are not able to grasp certain concepts, we shouldn't confuse them anymore - especially with facts.

Facts like; Monsanto is a Company that makes a majority of its profits from Designs and Selling new forms of life. They are even patenting designer-genes for specific purposes.

Monsanto's primary income comes from Intelligently designing new life forms.

This has nothing to do with a god deity, this is just the way it is. Highly evolved primates are now manipulating the DNA of other lifeforms. We are using our intelligence to design them to fulfill a particular role...

Where is the god in that? That's right, intelligent design needs no god. It requires only highly evolved monkeys with advanced technology .

Got it? I.D. = No God+genetic manipulation



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


Why does God want children to die and bacteria to get stronger? Is drug resistance a fact? People misuse antibiotics and make bacteria stronger because the ones less susceptible to the drugs keep getting stronger and passing that ability on. We are running out of easy ways to kill bacteria. Ergo, bacteria evolve survival traits in much less than a human lifetime. Nothing in biology is static.

You are not college material. You just said to meet at the statistics faculty area so I would think you belonged there.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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The big question is how did something as relatively complex as a single-celled organism form itself out of random bits of chemicals and water? Yeah, yeah, amino acids. But it's a long way from amino acids to a little critter that floats around, eats stuff, poops, and divides to create more of itself. I don't even know how one would go about determining the odds of that happening, or not.

Then, after that, how does a happy single cell one sunny day suddenly decide to become a multi-celled organism, where the cells somehow decide amongst themselves which will do certain tasks and which will do other tasks? That sure would take one helluva mutation.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Eyemagistus
Why does God want children to die and bacteria to get stronger? Is drug resistance a fact? People misuse antibiotics and make bacteria stronger because the ones less susceptible to the drugs keep getting stronger and passing that ability on. We are running out of easy ways to kill bacteria. Ergo, bacteria evolve survival traits in much less than a human lifetime.


Fortunately for us, human beings don't need to evolve survival traits at the speed of bacteria, because we have transferable knowledge that evolves even faster. That's why bacteria might be getting tougher, but it's nowhere near killing off all the babies, as evidenced by our continued population growth. So as far as "God" is concerned, we were loved enough to be created with an intelligence that gives us dominion over all other life on the planet.

Or something like that.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 



Originally posted by Conspiriology
Science hasn't even come up with a better office communications system than the coffee break.


Then quit using the internet and go get my coffee!



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by Nohup
 


There is nothing to "decide." It just happens. What works, keeps on living. What doesn't, dies. Yes, the odds can seem "astronomical," because science is in the astronomical schoolyard and you aren't. You are still at home sleeping and missed the bus.

Amino acids are created in laboratory in 1953


Stanley Miller (b. 1930) was a doctoral student working with Urey at the University of Chicago, researching possible environments of early Earth. In 1953 he combined the ideas of Urey and Oparin in a short, simple experiment.

He reproduced the early atmosphere of Earth that Urey proposed by creating a chamber with only hydrogen, water, methane, and ammonia. To speed up "geologic time" in his experiment, he boiled the water and instead of exposing the mix to ultraviolet light he used an electric discharge something like lightning. After just a week, Miller had a residue of compounds settled in his system. He analyzed them and the results were electrifying: Organic compounds had been formed, most notably some of the "building blocks of life," amino acids.

Wow. It took a whole week way back in 1953. Amino acids are common throughout interstellar space.

Whoop, there it is!



“We basically have found what appears to be the requirements, the nutrients, to support life whether past, present or future,” said Samuel P. Kounaves of Tufts University, who is leading the chemical analysis, during a telephone news conference on Thursday. “The sort of soil you have there is the type of soil you’d probably have in your backyard.”

First damn planet we land on. Go figure.

The point is, science has already demonstrated the entire process of how and why bacteria evolve drug resistance. You can't. You can't even think of how to propose an experiment to test what you believe.
That is not science. That is dogma. You want to control the answers without bothering to understand the questions. Science evolved because it can keep people alive. Religion only knows how to kill people.

Science is already coming up with the next generation of antibiotics. You aren't. You don't have a clue where to begin. People are dying and we can't wait for your intelligence to evolve. This is where the rubber meets the road.

Game over. Now go play in traffic and help raise our collective intelligence. God will still love you.






[edit on 26-6-2008 by Eyemagistus]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by Eyemagistus

Why does God want children to die and bacteria to get stronger?


Oh get off it eyemaggot,

1) What the hell do you care.

2) Quit putting words in his mouth

3) I never argue with mind readers

4) quit plugging your alleged accomplishments

5) your darwininan evolution is Bunk, face it ok


You are not college material. You just said to meet at the statistics faculty area so I would think you belonged there


You ain't a pimple on my intellectual butt son, and YOU DID think I belonged there but that isn't my fault, you just can't admit to what a pompous presumptuous kind of person you are.

Scientist pffft yeah

riiight

- Con



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by redshirt0202
 


ok here is my theory. God created the world in his own time. how much time is a day for God there is no way to tell. plus you have to take into account that there was no sin in the world so there was no death for man until sin. so here is the billion dollar question. how much time elapsed from the creation of man till the fall of man when sin entered the world and death for man came into existance. there could have been thousands of years there. in all that time dinasours and other animals could have been living and dying. that is why you find all the fossils of animals and never man. from millions of years ago. i hope you were able to follow me,its hard to explain in a short paragraph



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


Sounds like you are on the verge of an aneurysm now because you still can't explain where Cain and Abel found wives, and didn't even have the basic animal instinct of avoiding incest.
How many magical conspiracy do-overs do you need anyways?
Personally, I would have advised Adam to work things out with Lilith, rather than running off and demanding to have a more submissive mate. But, that would open up another can of ugly worms you can't explain, and you obviously just aren't up to it.



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