Republicans block extra taxes on oil companies

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Just so you know, NO CORPORATION PAYS TAXES. They pass any and all expenses on to the customer, just like any other busness. Only citizens pay taxes. They make prices just enough to cover any regulations and taxes on the end product. Its basic economics!

Zindo

Well I don't know where you learned economics but...rarely can a corporation shift the whole tax to the consumer unless it is a monopoly and provides a service that is extremely inelastic (something where demand does not change for the product even if the price increases such as a life saving medicine).

Usually taxes cause "dead weight loss" meaning loss of business for the producer and loss of satisfaction for the consumer which leads to higher prices AND less profits.

EDIT: By the way, oil companies can and will shift the tax to the consumers though as their product is pretty inelastic, at least in the short term.


[edit on 10-6-2008 by RetinoidReceptor]

The Constitution doesn't give government the power to tax a certain industry simply because they make profits that retards in DC deem to be obscene.

Good on the republicraps for protecting big oil.

How do these taxes help me at the pump? They don't! This is just another BS ploy to blame a company for our woes. Why should the government get MORE money? Why does the government DESERVE more money? Again, HOW WILL TAXING "WINDFALL PROFITS" HELP THE PRICE OF GAS?

Originally posted by yellowcard

The Federal Reserve is a non-profit private bank...all of their profits are repaid to the treasury...so I guess you could say they are taxed 100%

How do you know? When was the last time the fed was Audited?

reply to post by dbates


Actually your about 40 years to late. Government IS already big and because we are not taxing enough we are going further and further into debt which is causing inflation. If you start taxing people it may wake them up to how big our government is and we might start to see people rioting in the streets but as long as the keep taxes low the sheeple will not understand that they are still paying for that big spending just in the form of interest and inflation. I agree though there should be no income tax but until government can curve its spending its almost necessary.

Originally posted by yellowcard

Originally posted by Solarskye
I say tax the Federal Reserve! They're the ones who are responsible for higher prises and the dollar going down the tubes.

Just where did that silver go that was in our coins and the gold? Monopoly money is what we have now days.

The Federal Reserve is a non-profit private bank...all of their profits are repaid to the treasury...so I guess you could say they are taxed 100%

"Not for profit"?? Where are you getting your information?

No, all of their 'profits' are NOT paid back into the treasury. You believe an illusion. Anyways, I'm not going to hold your hand on that one right now but you can start here:

www.fdrs.org...

Back to the issue:

While you guys are debating INSIDE the box, there is a whole world out there you need to learn about:

educate-yourself.org...

Long but accurate read.


These criminals that run the oil and gas industry DESERVE to be taxed into oblivion as far as I'm concerned. Why?

Their blatant and obvious antitrust and monopoly behavior along with their 'artificial scarcity' scam regarding both oil AND refining capacity.

Just do your homework people.. I'm tired of all the 'capitalism nicks' bleating that all this criminal behavior is ok because duh.... capitalism is better than socialism. Not that simple guys. I'm not into socialism but I HATE corruption and the idiots that refuse to pay any attention to it.

When the oil and gas industry has real competition and the corruption within is properly addressed THEN I will have sympathy and respect capitalism but until then.. they deserve all the taxes they get.

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
"Not for profit"?? Where are you getting your information?

No, all of their 'profits' are NOT paid back into the treasury. You believe an illusion. Anyways, I'm not going to hold your hand on that one right now but you can start here:

www.fdrs.org...

The Federal Reserve's income is derived primarily from the interest on U.S. government securities that it has acquired through open market operations. Other sources of income are the interest on foreign currency investments held by the System; fees received for services provided to depository institutions, such as check clearing, funds transfers, and automated clearinghouse operations; and interest on loans to depository institutions (the rate on which is the so-called discount rate). After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury.

Yellowcard

and interest on loans to depository institutions (the rate on which is the so-called discount rate). After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury.

So the rest of it's earnings go to the U.S. Treasury? Please detail this further and post links, I want to see numbers. How much of 'earnings' go back to the treasury.. I truly want to know.

I would also like more details on these "earnings".. in particular, interest that's paid on money printed out of thin air.

Let's talk about income taxes.. where do they really go?

In particular, taxes that are not actually deposited into the U.S Treasury but to a PRIVATE BANKING CORPORATION.


www.tax-freedom.com...


Justifyng this iniquity with intellectualized details and legalisms will not do you or anyone else any good. The federal reserve is what it is, regardless of the legalities of it. The devil is truly in the details if you truly look for them.

In fact, read all of this site, educate yourself.

www.tax-freedom.com...



[edit on 11-6-2008 by ViewFromTheStars]

reply to post by yellowcard


Without ever being audited how do you REALLY know where all that money goes? The billions and trillions of dollars. Hmmmm. Sorry the FED needs to be dropped like a bad habit.

It amazes me how stupid some people can be. Oil makes less profit than most businesses in the world.

You want to talk about obscene profits look at hedge funds. Chelsea Clinton works for a hedge fund. John Edwards worked for a hedge fund. Al Gore works for a hedge fund, owns his own hedge fund. But here's their profit margin.

Their profit margin in hedge funds is 87%.


87% MARGIN.

That is printing money. So you want to talk about an obscene profit margin, there it is.

Oil's profit margin is about 8.5%.

How about healthcare facilities? 48%.
Publishing, periodicals, magazines is 34%.
Information delivery services, 23%.
Silver is 22%.
Application software industry is 22%.
Shipping, 21%.
Copper is 19%.
Tobacco products, 19%.
Drug manufacturers, 17%.
Insurance brokers, 16.
Beverages, wineries, distilleries, 15%.
Long distance carriers, 15.8%.
Railroads, 13.9%.
Steel and iron, 13.8.
Cigarettes, 13.7.
Integrated circuits, semiconductors, 13.6.
Money center banks, 10.8.
Hotel/motels, 10.6.
Asset management, 10.5.
Beverage, Brewers, 10.5.
Resorts and casinos, resorts and casinos are 10.5. Casinos are 10.5.

Oil is 8.5.


adapted from Glenn Beck radio program 6/11/08.
BTW, Glenn Beck is self educated, no college, can't stand REPUBLICANs as well as DEMOCRATs because they are ALL politicians.

THIS is our real problem, politicians, NOT companies. If it wasn't for the limpnoodled DEMs in the House right now, we would be drilling in ANWAR, Coal to Oil, and off the coast of our own country. Instead, CHINA and INDIA are drilling for oil 40 miles off OUR COASTLINE. But we don't want to hurt the polar bears and sea creatures. Did you know that the polar bears are in a population explosion due to abundant food sources? F the polar bears, if we had ANWAR we would be back to $1.50 gasoline. Wake up people, politicians WORK FOR US, not the other way around. It's about time we reminded them of this.

[edit on 11-6-2008 by Contagion2012]

reply to post by Contagion2012


LOL if you think ANWAR will get us back to $1.50 you my friend are quite misinformed. If you want to get the gas back to $1.50 get us back to a strong dollar policy and that will fix it. Its not gas going up its the dollar going down. Blame those same politicians for spending all sorts of money we dont have.

Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by Contagion2012

 

LOL if you think ANWAR will get us back to $1.50 you my friend are quite misinformed. If you want to get the gas back to $1.50 get us back to a strong dollar policy and that will fix it. Its not gas going up its the dollar going down. Blame those same politicians for spending all sorts of money we dont have.

Of course $1.50 is exaggerrated my friend. But yes, those politicians spending our money is the problem. Too bad the majority of the populous cannot see, or choose to ignore this. But don't worry, the same government that has been bankrupting us for 100 years will save us with the universal healthcare and baby bonds. Money grows on trees in Washington ya know.

Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by yellowcard

 

Without ever being audited how do you REALLY know where all that money goes? The billions and trillions of dollars. Hmmmm. Sorry the FED needs to be dropped like a bad habit.

The bank is audited often; The Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve Banks, and the Federal Reserve System as a whole are all subject to several levels of audit and review. Under the Federal Banking Agency Audit Act (enacted in 1978 as Public Law 95-320), which authorizes the Comptroller General of the United States to audit the Federal Reserve System, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) has conducted numerous reviews of Federal Reserve activities. In addition, the Board's Office of Inspector General (OIG) audits and investigates Board programs and operations as well as those Board functions delegated to the Reserve Banks. Completed and active GAO reviews and completed OIG audits, reviews, and assessments are listed in the Board’s Annual Report (before 2002, the reviews were listed in the Board's Annual Report: Budget Review).

The Board's financial statements, and its compliance with laws and regulations affecting those statements, are audited annually by an outside auditor retained by the OIG. The financial statements of the Reserve Banks are also audited annually by an independent outside auditor. In addition, the Reserve Banks are subject to annual examination by the Board. The Board's financial statements and the combined financial statements for the Reserve Banks are published in the Board's Annual Report.

www.federalreserve.gov...


You can read all of their annual reports right there...a lot of people that are against the Federal Reserve don't even know how the system works. It's a genius system...I personally don't agree with it, and believe the market should set the rates (which technically they do, the only rate the Fed actually controls is the "discount" rate and the target rate.) However, I'm not going to make things up and lie about the system simply because I don't agree with it...which some people here appear to love to do.

I'm a Milton Friedman libertarian, Austrian school economics are not very respectable.

[edit on 11-6-2008 by yellowcard]

reply to post by BlueTriangle


i guess you forgot that the 75% figure in taxes paid is not to the U.S. but a huge percentage portion is paid to foriegn governments. must have slipped your mind.

Personally, I am glad they blocked it.

Who the hell do the Democrats think the gas companies are going to pass that tax off on to? And it sure the hell won't gas bring prices down.

And what defines "unreasonable" profits? There are already laws in place that fight against fraud and price gouging. If they are obtaining their profits legally, then more power to them. If not, then send them to the guillotine.

If anything, though, they need to stop subsidizing oil companies.

This is yet another example of Congressional Democrats performing the usual vaudeville routine for their knee-jerk, nutcase constituents who believe that taxation should be used as a form of punishment. MORE TAXES on the rich! MORE TAXES on the oil companies! Let's make 'em HURT!

Many, many of those foaming, shortsighted "kill the rich" fanatics live right here in ATS, which I think is a detriment to the site's credibility.

What this lynch mob doesn't (can't) seem to grasp is that higher taxes on the oil companies are immediately passed on to the consumer. Punish the oil companies and you're going to be paying $10 per gallon very quickly.

Look, OPEC has already said that the cost of gasoline has NOTHING to do with the price of crude oil, and they're right. OPEC thinks that current world gas prices are insane and are being driven up by petroleum speculators — those who invest heavily in petroleum with the expectation of a huge return on investment. THAT is what's escalating the price of gas, people.

We could cut the price of gasoline in half in America simply by opening up North American oil field drilling. Yes, that means offshore. Yes, that means Alaska. But our Democrat-controlled Congress will not allow such homeland drilling to take place, and they're dead-set against nuclear options, as well, which is going to keep us dependent on foreign oil for now and into the foreseeable future.

In brief, these shortsighted, quick-fix Congressional Democrats — these nutcase appeasers — are intent on punishing the American consumer one way or another. If you want to see "real change" rather than lip service, then contact your Democrat Representatives and Senators and tell them to stand down from their mindless opposition to energy independence for America.

Tell them, in no uncertain terms, that you will fire them from their jobs if they don't start working for America instead of against it.

[edit on 6/11/2008 by Doc Velocity]

Great now the Dem. block a bill to drill offshore. Some analyst predicted if this bill would pass (off shore drilling, Anwar) oil prices would immediatly drop. Eventhough we would not see any of the oil for years to come. I mean Imagine if we hit the motherload off our coast or in anwar. Can you imagine how much oil would drop. I mean one of the reasons oil is so high today is speculation anyway. Good job dems, really looking out for the people. LOL

Originally posted by yellowcard

Originally posted by Solarskye
I say tax the Federal Reserve! They're the ones who are responsible for higher prises and the dollar going down the tubes.

Just where did that silver go that was in our coins and the gold? Monopoly money is what we have now days.

The Federal Reserve is a non-profit private bank...all of their profits are repaid to the treasury...so I guess you could say they are taxed 100%

Oh Yeah mr/mrs smarty pants .... well what about all the money the FED accrues in interest through their fractional banking system - flush like tic sucking off America's "full faith and credit" and its insatiable desire to borrow?

(Edit) ..and that interest is loaned to you and you again and again at idiotically low rates, repackaged and sold eventually to busted freddie and Fannies which the Government 'cant afford' not to bail out. 100% FED tax paid my arse.

Face it folks - the OP Bill was the second 'silent' environmental filibuster to be 'tabled' in less than a week. And an all too common tool for this treasonous Congress - both sides.


[edit on 11-6-2008 by Pawnhaus]

Funny thing is that the U.S. oil companies have very little say in how much oil, gas, diesel, and other petroleum products cost. It's actually the commodities market that determines that. But then, who actually wants to face the real issue, and not just their own hatred and blindness?

I wonder how much we'd be paying now if the Socialists had allowed our own oil fields in Alaska to be tapped years ago? Guess that's not the REAL issue now, is it?

Originally posted by Pawnhaus

Originally posted by yellowcard

Originally posted by Solarskye
I say tax the Federal Reserve! They're the ones who are responsible for higher prises and the dollar going down the tubes.

Just where did that silver go that was in our coins and the gold? Monopoly money is what we have now days.

The Federal Reserve is a non-profit private bank...all of their profits are repaid to the treasury...so I guess you could say they are taxed 100%

Oh Yeah mr/mrs smarty pants .... well what about all the money the FED accrues in interest through their fractional banking system - flush like tic sucking off America's "full faith and credit" and its insatiable desire to borrow?

(Edit) ..and that interest is loaned to you and you again and again at idiotically low rates, repackaged and sold eventually to busted freddie and Fannies which the Government 'cant afford' not to bail out. 100% FED tax paid my arse.

Face it folks - the OP Bill was the second 'silent' environmental filibuster to be 'tabled' in less than a week. And an all too common tool for this treasonous Congress - both sides.


[edit on 11-6-2008 by Pawnhaus]

I'm pretty sure my other posts address this The problem with the Fed is that it's very Keynesian [ en.wikipedia.org... ] Not that they are robbing us... I don't think you actually understand how the Federal Reserve system operates...