It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Struggling US carriers slash fleets

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:55 AM
link   

Unprecedented fuel prices have created a crisis of historic proportions for the struggling US air transport industry, forcing legacy carriers to pull down hundreds of mainline aircraft - largely aged narrowbodies - and initiate thousands of layoffs in a fight to stay alive.


www.flightglobal.com...

ok , this isn`t your usual run-of-the-mill story , you must read between the lines;

AA are scrapping 45 aircraft - mostly MD-80`s , UA are removing 94 aircraft - nearly all 737`s , and continental are likewise removing 67 737`s - your looking at on average a 15% (up to 20%) fleet reduction , and if the price of oil hits $200 - like predicted by the end of the year you can see more aircraft going.




posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 06:11 PM
link   
All the aircraft being retired are birds that should have gone ages ago. The 737s are -300 to -500 series aircraft or older. It's good to see them going. Yes it's hurting the airlines, but in the long run it's going to be better for them to have younger more efficient aircraft in service.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 05:31 AM
link   
The price of oil is soon going to really slow up the global economy.


Everyone is already cutting back on their car use, this is evidence of airlines being hit.


Goods prices will also rise and soon the vicious circle will really kick in.


Alot of not good methinks.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 09:25 PM
link   
Well it's good that airlines are now removing their more inefficient aircraft and maybe in the long run this is actually very good.

This crisis is forcing people to search for new alternatives simply to stay in business and continue on.

So maybe a lot of those fuel-efficient concepts we've read about over the years may actually be coming to the market?

It'll definitely be tough at first for the airlines, but I'm sure for those that do survive, the benefits in the long run will out-weigh the loss.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 03:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
So maybe a lot of those fuel-efficient concepts we've read about over the years may actually be coming to the market?


What?


Propfans?


Too noisy at the moment without active cancellation.



As for everything else, its in the aircraft manufacturer's best interest to have the most fuel efficient aircraft in the market, so it is not as if a wholesale change can be made and a quick improvement in fuel consumptions achieved.



posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 08:39 AM
link   
Never said propfans.

And never said a change was going to happen immediately and with easily.

I recognize that this is a dire situation for the companies and with current losses some companies are facing economic rough waters.

But it's clear where this is all headed, change for the better.

The next 5-20 years should show us something. But for now, you can't get anywhere without making sacrifice.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 10:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Never said propfans.

And never said a change was going to happen immediately and with easily.


I'm just wondering what concepts you've read about incase there is something I'm unaware of.



posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 05:53 PM
link   
*sigh*

Alright Kilco, you're right again! Guess we're not all equals here.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 03:52 AM
link   


Why so defensive?


I'm not omipotent - I definitely don't know everything, in fact I know very little.



I wasn't asking a closed or rhetorical question when I said "what?"



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 05:21 AM
link   
im kinda baffled as well - was hoping for *some* idea of th up coming concepts you mentioned , would have been good to see what new technology they want to push - , i know geared turbo fans are coming along nicely.

but to say `you win`?



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 09:00 AM
link   
I suppose I can run through things that I'm aware of... and anyone can feel free to add to them.


Propulsion:

Geared turbofans - Pratt & Whitney have contracts for the Bombardier CSeries and the Mitsubishi Regional jet. Can expect to see this powering commericial aircraft in the 2015 timeframe. Incidentally, Rolls Royce have had a good alternative to this since the 1970s with their triple spool engines.

Ducted fans/UHBPR turbofans - A consideration for the 737RS and A320+/NSR replacements, with Boeing postponing the 737RS you can assume the technology isn't there yet. Also increasing the nacelle size induces more drag, the scope for improvement simply might not exist.

Unducted fans/Propfans - Used on AN-70, been tested by GE and NASA previously, well understood - does come with heavy penalties in terms of noise. Active cancellation may be needed before it can progress onto commericial aircraft. That (active noise) won't happen (commericially) before 2020 unless there is a paradigm shift.

Bleedless engines - Used on 787 and 350, offers significant improvement in fuel burn at descent stages and stacking.

Variable nozzle engines - Good for a small improvement of 2-4% thrust at take-off, will improve sfc by marginal amounts too. Won't be around for the CSeries or Mitsubishi, may make it onto the Boeing 737RS and Airbus NSR.

Distributed propulsion/Boundary layer ingestion - decades away - far side of 2020 to get to where geared turbofans are now IMO.



Airframe:

Laminar flow (both wing and nacelle) - Various projects ongoing, like EFE, two major problems being preventing surface contamination and manufacturing tolerances. With fuel becoming a larger proportion of the direct operating costs, expect to see aircraft manufacturers produce higher tolerance components (particularly the wing) capable of improved laminar flow. There has also been loads of work on wave drag, some of this will undoubtedly be levered onto the next generation of aircraft (737RS - A320+/NSR)

Winglets - further refinements, but no scope for anything major.

Thinner wings - lowering the wing thickness to chord ratio can lower drag dramatically, but imposes greater strain on the wing spars etc. With the improvement in composites, this is being pushed on aircraft like the 787, 350 and CSeries.

Warping wings - more efficient than conventional flaps, slats etc and should offer new ways to reduce wave drag, but don't expect to see this stuff before 2030.

Structural improvements: Composites allow for reduced aircraft weight, and hence reduced lift dependent drag, an ongoing process, but don't expect miracles. More likely to allow improvements in other areas, like wing thickness.




Can't think of anything else off the top of my head, if I do, will update.

[edit on 13/6/08 by kilcoo316]



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 09:47 AM
link   
EADS is starting to look into new wing design

www.flightglobal.com...

also the P&W GTF engine is ready to be tested on the A340 - for use on the present A320`s within 3 years - a big jump over boeing and the 737`s.

i do wish they would hurry up and order teh AN-70 , its actually a nice palne - and in teh high fuel price world a great alternative/



new topics

top topics



 
0

log in

join