Michelle Obama - The TRUTH about her Thesis

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posted on Jun, 9 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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I would like to discuss Michelle Obama's college thesis and find out what people see as racist about it.



In Obama's thesis, she sought to quantify how the attitudes of black Princeton alumni changed after graduation in regard to race relations and social change. Obama was especially interested in the attitudes of Princeton alumni in regard to improving the lives of lower-income blacks.

To document the change in attitudes, Obama devised an 18-question survey and mailed it to black alumni. Her thesis is a discussion of her methodology and an analysis of the results. It contains a limited amount of personal opinion in the introduction.


There's an anti-Obama rumor going around in chain emails thundering across the country that, in her college thesis, Mrs. Obama stated the following phrase:



Obama's wife wrote a paper in college that said America was a nation founded on "crime and hatred" and that whites in America are "ineradicably racist."
...
We downloaded a copy, which appears to be complete with no numbered pages missing. We read it, but we did not find the phrases the e-mail describes.

We took the additional step of scanning the document through optical character recognition software so we could search its text electronically. An automated search did not find the words "crime," "hatred," "hate," "ineradicably," or "racist" in the document.

Source

The email also takes one phrase from the thesis and attributes it to be Michelle Obama's philosophy, when actually, she is speculating what others might feel.

From Snopes


Much scrutiny and discussion has been focused on a single phrase contained within the thesis, the statement that “blacks must join in solidarity to combat a white oppressor.” This phrase has repeatedly been quoted out of context and presented as if it reflected Michelle Obama’s own philosophy, but in its full context it is clearly her speculation about what she thought some of the respondents she surveyed for her thesis (i.e., students who had attended Princeton in earlier years) might have been feeling:

As discussed earlier, most respondents were attending Princeton during the 70s, at a time when the Black Power Movement was still influencing the attitudes of many Blacks.

It is possible that the Black individuals either chose to or felt pressure to come together with other Blacks on campus because of the belief that Blacks must join together to combat a White oppressor. As the few blacks in a white environment it is understandable that respondents might have felt a need to look out for one another.



Links to the thesis are made available here. And I challenge anyone to find anything in it that holds true to the chain email that made it out to be a racist rant. Please provide the section of the thesis (1-4) and the page on which the offending material is located.

Flyer's Fan, care to have a go? I would like to know exactly what part of this thesis is racist. Thank you.


[edit on 9-6-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]




posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:05 AM
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MODS – if I screw up the quoting .. please fix. I’m still not sure how to do it all.

So, BH, you are calling me out PERSONALLY?
I’m honored.

I’m sure certain folks have already given you an ‘atta girl’ for that!



Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I challenge anyone to find anything in it that holds true to the chain email that made it out to be a racist rant.

I can't speak to that chain email. I don't think I've gotten it.

As for the thesis that Obama released -
Do you think it’s the real thesis – a full and uncorrupted version?
(we are dealing with politicians … I don’t trust any of them!
)
To go over that thesis page by page - that would be a long discussion.
PDF version


Flyer's Fan, care to have a go? I would like to know exactly what part of this thesis is racist.

Honestly, It's 105 freak'n degrees today with a RED level pollution alert - and we are dealing with asthma issues .... I'm not in the mood. BUT .. for you 'sweetie' ... I'll make some brief comments. (see how you are loved?
) I’m sure you’ll disagree with what I say .. but what the heck.

Screw any (allegedly) doctored email.
The original thesis has plenty of psychological and sociological issues to discuss.

What I see on that thesis (because you asked) – lots of grammatical errors. I see spelling and syntax errors as well. Also, a whole lotta’ self esteem problems. Overall, I see a woman obsessed with her own skin color and deeply resentful that other people with black skin are happy being Americans instead of identifying themselves as Africans Diaspora. (IMHO) She seems judgmental in this regard as well. I see a woman who is self-segregating and who expects others with the same skin color to do the same. She is disappointed when other people with black skin don’t have the same self-segregating attitude that she does. She sees integration as a PROBLEM instead of a positive natural progression.

From the thesis -

Just under 90 alums responded to the questionnaires (for a response rate of approximately 22 percent) and the conclusions were not what she expected. "I hoped that these findings would help me conclude that despite the high degree of identification with whites as a result of the educational and occupational path that black Princeton alumni follow, the alumni would still maintain a certain level of identification with the black community. However, these findings do not support this possibility."


She ‘hoped’ that people with black skin would be self-segregating as she was. She was obviously disappointed to find that they are getting along just fine in America without bitterly clinging (
) to where their ancestors were from hundreds of years ago.

Only 22 percent of the black population bothered to respond to the questionnaire? That’s rather low.
I have to wonder what the rest of the student population with black skin thought of the questionnaire. I’d like to see what was on that questionnaire that had people not bothering to answer it. I can’t find any copies of the questionnaire on the internet.

This site describes the questionnaire as having – these type of questions –


requesting the respondents define the amount of time and "comfort" level spent interacting with blacks and whites before they attended the school, as well as during and after their University years. Other questions dealt with their individual religious beliefs, living arrangements, careers, role models, economic status, and thoughts about lower class blacks. In addition, those surveyed were asked to choose whether they were more in line with a "separationist and/or pluralist" viewpoint or an "integrationist and/or assimilationist" ideology.


In her thesis, Michelle Obama states that she’s much influenced by the definition of black "separationism" as offered by Stokely Carmichael and Charles Hamilton in their 1967 Black Power: The Politics of Liberation in America.

Her quote – (she mentions Carmichael on page 7, then again on page 8)

“ Stokely Carmichael and Charles Hamilton’s (1967) developed the definition of separationism in their discussion of Black Power which guided me in the formulation and use of this concept in the study.


Stokely Carmichael eventually went to Africa and renamed himself Kwame Toure. He hung with two of West Africa's failed dictators before coming back to American and becoming a warm-up speaker for Louis Farrakhan in Madison Square Garden in 1985. I don’t know if she was already caught up in the so-called ‘black liberation theology’ cult at this time … (kinda sounds like it)

She said that Princeton was majority white and that everything was based upon white people. The white population now is ~ 62%. I don’t know what it was when she went in 1985. Somewhere in that thesis (I don’t remember where) she claims that blacks only started to be allowed to go there in the 1960’s. This is wrong. Blacks were at Princeton in 1942.

From the thesis -

“By actually working with the Black lower class or within their communities as a result of their ideologies, a separationist may better understand the desperation of their situation and feel more hopeless about a resolution as opposed to an integrationist who is ignorant to their plight.”

She’s slamming those who aren’t obsessed with their skin color. Those who understand that they are Americans instead of Africans Diaspora-ists are now supposedly ignorant and/or uncaring. Guess white people must be uncaring or at least ignorant because they are not black? This is bigotry and ignorance on her part. She’s lumping people all together based upon their life choices and their skin color. Anyways, that’s what I see.

From the thesis (page 2, I think)


Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the Black community I was somehow obligated to this community and would use all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost. My experiences at Princeton have made me more aware of my “Blackness” than ever before.


You asked what part of this is racist – well, there ya’ go. Black people come first. If I ran around saying I’d help white people first and foremost, then I’d be called a bigot and a racist for using my position/color to help whites first and foremost. For her to use her position/degree/color to help blacks ‘first and foremost’ … that’s bigotry and racism. As far as I’m concerned, she’s welcome to ‘help’ whoever she wants, whatever color skin they happen to have. I don’t care. But call it what it is … racism.

Thesis quote from page 54 –


Elements of Black culture which make it unique from White culture such as its music, its language, the struggles and a “consciousness” shared by its people may be attributed to the injustices and oppression suffered by this race of people which are not comparable to the experiences of any other race of people through this country’s history. However, with the increasing integration of Blacks into the mainstream society, many “integrated Blacks” have lost touch with the Black culture in their attempts to become adjusted and comfortable in their new culture–the White culture. Some of these Blacks are no longer able to enjoy the qualities which make Black culture so unique or are unable to share their culture openly with other Blacks because they have become so far removed from these experiences and, in some instances, ashamed of them because of their integration.


Yikes. This is so full of *cough* that it’s hard to know where to begin.


1 – AOL blog about this paragraph and more. Rather interesting.

2 – White culture is somehow a lesser culture then black culture? She makes that insinuation.

3 – Blacks suffered more than any other group in this country? Go ask a Native American Indian and I think he/she will tell a different story. Go ask a Japanese prison camp survivor (if you can find any) and I think he/she will tell a different story.

4 – She calls the American melting pot – the “white culture”. That is wrong. There is no ‘dominant white culture’.

5 – She bemoans that black people have ‘lost touch’ with their black culture in an attempt to become adjusted to a ‘white culture’. So she’s whining that they aren’t ‘black enough’?? That’s just being b****y black. Newsflash to Michelle – the melting pot culture is a perfectly fine culture. If those people want to be part of it, that’s their right.

6 – She bemoans that those blacks who have successfully integrated. Frankly, IMHO, she just sounds like sour grapes. She self-segregated and now she feels like the kid who isn’t invited to the neighbors birthday party, through no fault but her own.

ALL IN ALL – what you have in that college thesis is a person who has self esteem issues. Self segregation. Obsessed with her own skin color. A chip on her shoulder and anger towards those who have her same skin color but who don’t think like she does. She’s got a very good life and two FREE Ivy League college degrees (paid for by ‘the man’ - US Tax Payers). Sour grapes.

BTW – my 12 year old daughter wants to know why Obama keeps capitalizing the ‘b’ and the ‘w’ in her thesis. Good question. Are they proper nouns? I don’t’ think so. Could be … but I don’t think so. She says they are adjectives. The dictionary is unclear on this.


Thank you.

You are welcome.
:



[edit on 6/10/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:08 AM
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(didn't fit in the above post)

More on the thesis –

CBS News
Pundits
Fox Election News
Slate.com
Yahoo Answers
Israpundit
Yahoo questions – errors in Michelle Obama’s thesis
National Review – Michelle Obama Thesis

Just adding this picture because it cracks me up. Trying to make her look like Mother Teresa or something …
What a hoot. Those in the MSM try to do this kind of thing all the time with different people who fit their agendas.


AGAIN - She has a great life. She got two Ivy League degrees ... FOR FREE - paid for by US tax payers - affirmative action style. Yet she whines ....


[edit on 6/10/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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Ladies you should be in the debate forum, two of our finest long standing members deserve a thread just for both of you.

Because this is interesting and a topic that will be used over and over during the presidential campaign.

I say Go for an official debate.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Ladies you should be in the debate forum, two of our finest long standing members deserve a thread just for both of you.


Awwwwwwwwe marg. You are so sweet! (as usual!!)


I dont' know what there is to debate though.
I kinda said all I can say on this. (I think)

BH thinks it's fine. I think it's a psychological mess full of bigotry.

Not much to debate. It's all perception based I think.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



“By actually working with the Black lower class or within their communities as a result of their ideologies, a separationist may better understand the desperation of their situation and feel more hopeless about a resolution as opposed to an integrationist who is ignorant to their plight.”


This is really a stunning example of condescension and elitism as well. This is the same intellectual elitism that we've seen time after time in the campaign.

Just like Barack's "bitter" armchair sociology lesson, Michelle takes it upon herself to decide that blacks who decided to integrate into "white" society were too stupid to know they shouldn't be happy about being integrated.

This wouldn't be a concern except that it seems that this attitude continues to this day. Bitter white voters are too stupid to even know why they cling to their guns and their religion, and why they can't see how obvious it is that they should be voting for Obama.

On a positive note, even if Obama is elected it might be a good thing in the long run. My guess is that there might not be another Ivy League "intellectual" elected for at least 40 or 50 years after the Obamas are done.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:27 AM
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FlyersFan trust me is going to be more to be debated about Obama than just his wife thesis.

We are going to see a wave of issues like there is not end.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:30 AM
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My husband and I have noticed something about Michelle Obama and we're wondering if anyone else has noticed.

This pertains to this thread.

Compare older photo's Obama.

Her skin appears much lighter now.

Seems to us that she talks out of both sides of her mouth.......lol

[edit on 10-6-2008 by MagicaRose]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by MagicaRose
Compare older photo's Obama.
Her skin appears much lighter now.


We are discussing plastic surgery vs makeover for Michelle Obama here

For the record - I dont' care if people have plastic surgery.
It's just a chat thread meaning nothing to the election.




[edit on 6/10/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 10:47 AM
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I believe this email is in error, but not the context, but what and where this was said by Ms. Obama. The actual quote is correct, but it was not in her thesis. It was in a speech she gave to some womans group on a college campus. In that speach she did say those words and referanced them as being proven 'IN HER THESIS' from Princton. I heard the speech replayed on a radio show or news show, can't remember which but she did say this and I'm sure she believes it. I may be wrong here and don't want to start an argument, but I did hear these words in that speech!

Zindo

dmned spelling errors,LOL

[edit on 6/10/2008 by ZindoDoone]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
As for the thesis that Obama released -
Do you think it’s the real thesis – a full and uncorrupted version?


I have no way of knowing that. And of course, I'm sure you couldn't make judgments about something you haven't seen. Right? So, what we are discussing is the released thesis.

As I said, I would like to know exactly what part of this thesis is racist, as you and others have asserted.



What I see on that thesis (because you asked) – lots of grammatical errors. I see spelling and syntax errors as well. Also, a whole lotta’ self esteem problems.


None of which indicates racist views.



Overall, I see a woman


Sorry, your personal judgment of the woman is not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for the specific parts of her thesis which are being touted as "racist".



She ‘hoped’ that people with black skin would be self-segregating as she was.


That is not at all what your quote indicates. She had hoped people would "still maintain a certain level of identification with the black community." You are drastically twisting her words, as I suspected.



She was obviously disappointed to find that they are getting along just fine in America without bitterly clinging (
) to where their ancestors were from hundreds of years ago.


That is YOUR opinion, not hers.



Only 22 percent of the black population bothered to respond to the questionnaire? That’s rather low.


Perhaps it's high. She may have been expecting 15%. We don't know. You're assuming.



In her thesis, Michelle Obama states that she’s much influenced by the definition of black "separationism" as offered by Stokely Carmichael and Charles Hamilton in their 1967 Black Power: The Politics of Liberation in America.


Many black people were. Still nothing in her thesis that's racist.


“ Stokely Carmichael and Charles Hamilton’s (1967) developed the definition of separationism in their discussion of Black Power which guided me in the formulation and use of this concept in the study.


Is that the racist part? That she used Carmichael's definition of separationism to formulate her concept?


Anyways, that’s what I see.


Yeah, I'm getting that. You're taking quotes from the thesis and making them out to be racially charged. For example, the word "ignorant" simply means unaware, but you have added the word "uncaring" as if she said that. She did not. I'm beginning to see where you're getting your views, and it's not from the thesis itself, it's your perception of what she surely meant. (Even though she didn't say it)



Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the Black community I was somehow obligated to this community and would use all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost. My experiences at Princeton have made me more aware of my “Blackness” than ever before.


You asked what part of this is racist – well, there ya’ go. Black people come first. If I ran around saying I’d help white people first and foremost, then I’d be called a bigot and a racist for using my position/color to help whites first and foremost. For her to use her position/degree/color to help blacks ‘first and foremost’ … that’s bigotry and racism. As far as I’m concerned, she’s welcome to ‘help’ whoever she wants, whatever color skin they happen to have. I don’t care. But call it what it is … racism.


It's not racism to want to help your own community. It's racism to think that people of your race are better than people of other races.


Elements of Black culture which make it unique from White culture such as its music, its language, the struggles and a “consciousness” shared by its people may be attributed to the injustices and oppression suffered by this race of people which are not comparable to the experiences of any other race of people through this country’s history. However, with the increasing integration of Blacks into the mainstream society, many “integrated Blacks” have lost touch with the Black culture in their attempts to become adjusted and comfortable in their new culture–the White culture. Some of these Blacks are no longer able to enjoy the qualities which make Black culture so unique or are unable to share their culture openly with other Blacks because they have become so far removed from these experiences and, in some instances, ashamed of them because of their integration.


That's just the truth. That's her observation.



2 – White culture is somehow a lesser culture then black culture? She makes that insinuation.


She doesn't. Show me where. You have given me your opinion on her thesis. You have said what SHE meant and insinuated. But I'm sorry, you have failed to show me anything racist about her thesis.

[edit on 10-6-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by ZindoDoone
The actual quote is correct, but it was not in her thesis.


I'm sorry. I'm going to need a source. If you don't remember anything about where you heard it, no offense, but I'm sure you understand that I'm not going to just trust that you remember the exact quotes you heard. If she said that stuff, then surely it would be available in the Internet as a video, audio or transcript.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Sorry. Double post (below)

[edit on 10-6-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by jamie83
Michelle takes it upon herself to decide that blacks who decided to integrate into "white" society were too stupid to know they shouldn't be happy about being integrated.


Again, the word "ignorant" just means lacking knowledge. It does not mean "stupid". (Or "uncaring" as FF said)



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jamie83
Michelle takes it upon herself to decide that blacks who decided to integrate into "white" society were too stupid to know they shouldn't be happy about being integrated.


Again, the word "ignorant" just means lacking knowledge. It does not mean "stupid". (Or "uncaring" as FF said)


Yes, there is a huge world of difference between Michelle Obama thinking that integrated blacks are lacking in knowledge (knowledge which she conveniently has) and saying that they're too stupid to know they shouldn't be happy.

If it makes you feel any better that Michelle Obama used a more politically correct terminology by calling integrated blacks "ignorant" then you are really grasping at straws in your attempts to defend her.

Michelle Obama hit the trifecta with her "integrated blacks are too ignorant to understand their plight" comment.

1. First, she insults integrated blacks, accusing them of being too ignorant to know any better.

2. Second, she insults whites by implying that blacks who integrate with whites have some sort of "plight" that they don't recognize.

3. And third, she insults everybody with her condescending, elitist, "I know what's better for you than you do" attitude.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


ONLY because you asked me to.



I read most of her Thesis in the PDF format on the net..

I actually had a hard time figureing out exactly what her point was.. I believe there was a clandestine meaning behind her words.. and THIS is what I got out of.

She was doing a survery to see how blacks felt after graduating from Princton, a mostly white school.

She based her entire Thesis on a survey that only had a 22% responce rate. In the school I attended, which was no where near as prestigous as Princton, basing a Thesis on a survey with a 22% response ratio would have been disgarded entirely. I would have been made to start over with a new survey that would have been more compatable and had more responses. Also the method of surveying would have had to of been re-adjusted.

Her goal was, to me anyways, to see how Blacks where effected by attending a mostly white school. What I mean by this is that, if blacks spent time with Whites during education, would they be conditioned to be white themselves? And forsake their black haritage?

Her responses I believe, while she expresses disapointment, actually where as she predicted.

Blacks that where educated in an atmosphere that is mostly white, picked up "White" characteristics, and could identify with White culture more so then Black culture. I would full heartedly agree with this. Though it has nothing to do with the thread, when I attended Catholic schools where White's made 90% of the majority, we NEVER made reference to blacks as being black, because they where just like us. Watched the same shows, same music, same attitude. Not until public schools where the ratio was must closer between whites and blacks (60% white) did you see group or mob identification. Blacks that hung out with whites where outcasted as being white themselves.

Her basic point was that the blacks that went through Princton recieved education the vast majority of blacks would never have. Seeing as these blacks will go on to be the best in their respected fields, they would be the leaders of the Black Community. However her conclusion was that the Blacks intended to be the leaders of the racial community identified with whites, forsaken blacks and the Black Power movement. I believe her ultimate hope was that blacks would, even in a white enviroment, identify whites as an oppressor of their race, and use their position to work against whites. The problem being, people's attitudes are generally, for the most part, not effected by skin color or other petty differences.. but rather the differences of an upbringing. A black woman or man who made it to Princton and worked up from a poor life style to become a leader in their field.. well they will identify that they, like whites, worked to get where they are, and that blacks COULD make themselves better but opt not to. Obama I believe identified that she worked up through personal skill, and had to combat white oppression. And while I do not doubt she endured racism, the effects of hate against a person can sometimes morph into hatred it's self being emminated from that same person.

She was undoubtedly then confused as to why her fellow blacks could forsake the black community, assuming they where traitors.

Now, I don't know if I would go as far as to say her thesis was racist in general.. I believe her ideologies where shrewed and misplaced, she obviously harbored hate. I think she had more resentment against the blacks she interviewed though. It's a common syndrom of those who hate, to classify people into groups. If you belong to a group everyone around you like you, must be in the group. Then through stereotypes you group others into groups. People who broke away such as blacks who no longer identified with blacks where "rouge" in nature as they did not fit into HER perception of who and what they are.

Her flaw was simply that she grouped people by color, not by upbringing, not by personality, not by belief and did not see people as an individual. She saw everything black and white and no inbetween.

This is my opinion, this is what I got out of what I read. I would hope though that like all of us here, as we get older we mature, our thoughts and our beliefs change. I would not judge a woman by what she believed while at college, because ideas and thoughts can change with the years. I also don't consider it fair to judge a man based on what his wife believed while attending university. Let's not all get fixed up into the same thought process as Mrs. Obama while she attended University.

EDIT: Spell checker on the fritz, keeps changing my words..

[edit on 6/10/2008 by Rockpuck]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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Oh my God! That's the problem with taking snips of the work out of context. You have totally changed the meaning of it!

Let's look at this quote in detail, shall we?

“By actually working with the Black lower class or within their communities as a result of their ideologies, a separationist may better understand the desperation of their situation and feel more hopeless about a resolution as opposed to an integrationist who is ignorant to their plight.”

"Their" (bolded) in this paragraph is a pronoun for the "lower class" in the poor, black communities, NOT the integrationists. Mrs. Obama is saying that black people who become successful should go back and help their own communities, because those who don't are ignorant of the plights of the community's and can't really help.


Originally posted by jamie83
1. First, she insults integrated blacks, accusing them of being too ignorant to know any better.


No... She's saying that integrated blacks are ignorant to the plight of the poor, black community that they "left behind". Read it again.



2. Second, she insults whites by implying that blacks who integrate with whites have some sort of "plight" that they don't recognize.


No... blacks who integrate with whites are ignorant of the plight of the poor black communities. (not their own plight!)


She's saying that a separationist (someone who stays within the black communities after they've "made it") is more likely to understand the desperation of their situation (the community's) and feel more hopeless about a resolution than the integrationist who is ignorant to the plight of the poor, black communities. Basically, she is saying that people who become successful should go back and help their own communities, because those who don't are ignorant of the plights of the community's.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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Good return FlyersFan. In fact, using a tennis metaphor, I'd say you returned BH's "serve" with such a hard shot that all she could do was hit back a little dribbler into the net.
You clearly have BH back on her heels and on the defensive in this thread - that BH started as kind of a personal challenge to you.

Now for those that will try to squirm out of this issue with comments like, "the wife doesn't matter", etc., I say look at Hillary. She mattered when Bill was president, and she matters even more now because that was a springboard to her own run for the presidency.

The spouse is very often the last person the president hears an opinion from before making a decision.

So Mrs. Obama's views do matter. In fact, they matter a lot.


And if there's something troubling there, it needs to be exposed for all to see before they make up their minds on a candidate.

[edit on 6/10/2008 by centurion1211]



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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Interesting but to tell the truth I don't see any more racist remarks in her Thesis that McCain calling the day light white and the nigh time black.


I feel sorry that in America the real issues that should be addressed when it comes to political candidates for president after the fiasco of Bush should be their plans for the American citizens and how andy of the candidates are going to get the money to support the military and war industry over the needs of American people in this nation..

Obama is been dissected like a frog on a petri dish and is going to get uglier.



posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Excellent post, Rockpuck! Very astute. I starred your post. I agree with the vast majority of what you said. So, FF asked you, huh? LOL

Centurian, I'm not defensive. I'm not Michelle Obama. I have nothing to defend. No one has shown where this thesis is racist. I do love a good debate, though! I agree with you that the spouse does matter. Not as much as the president, for sure, but yeah, she matters.





 
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