The Mysterious Origins of Man, page 1

This award-winning documentary hosted by Charleton Heston first aired on primetime NBC in 1996. Almost 30 million viewers tuned in the first time it was broadcast despite strong competition from other networks on the same night. That's huge.

This documentary is so cool that if you lived in Britain where evolutionary dogma, big science, and darwinism is so powerful and so entrenched into people's mind's and thinking, it is unlikely this documetary would ever be allowed to be aired
video.google.com...


[edit on 9-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

reply to post by Hollywood11

---

Grow up. Seriously. Why is it you find fault with science only when it discovers evolution, yet not when it got you the computer you're looking at right now? Or when it got you your medication? Or when it got you cheap food? Or when it got you the internet? Doesn't that strike you as strange, that you can find fault with the exact same methodology - the scientific method only when it contradicts something you've been taught by people with no knowledge of science? Why do you use a computer if its very existence is down to atheistic science? Or is one of the ten commandments "Thou must be a hypocrite and let everyone know it"?

Charlton Heston was a christian fruitcake. He wouldn't know science if it came up and drew him a diagram. You can tell that because he, and those of his ilk, try to debunk science with flawed logic. It's a common thing to see people like that try to take down all of science (which they'd have to if they wanted to paint evolution as bunk, thanks to all the evidence it has supporting it). Pathetic.

Of course the video could be shown in the UK. Heck, you can show stuff on British TV you can only see on HBO or Showtime in the US. The problem is, though, that with most brits knowing about science (having been educated), the video would be (rightly) viewed as a comedy.

Enlightenment must suck for you - it means more and more people calling you out on your childish "logic" and perverted world-view. Too bad.

Your views are border-line crazy and unsubstantiated by reality.

Originally posted by dave420
Grow up. Seriously. Why is it you find fault with science only when it discovers evolution, yet not when it got you the computer you're looking at right now?

I'm sorry but binary math, which is what makes computers possible, is not "modern science". It's ancient wisdom and the ancients knew all of this long, long ago. They just didn't abuse their knowledge and destroy the planet like modern westerners of today do.

Computers are based in I ching principle and so is calculus

Gottfried Leibniz(1646 - 1716), discovered that the I Ching construct was universal. It was first introduced to him and the western world by his friend who went to the east

In 1697, a French Jesuit missionary in China, Joachim Bouvet, introduced the I Ching to German mathematician and philosopher, Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibnitz, who was amazed by the Book of Changes and its use of binary arithmetic, then unknown in Europe. Leibnitz spread the good word, and thus our civilization was first introduced to binary arithmetic, which is not only the cornerstone of the Book of Changes but also the language of all modern computers. Leibnitz was not the only great mind fascinated with the I Ching. Foremost among those who extolled its merit was no doubt psychologist Carl C. Jung, who saw in the Book of Changes the most perfect illustration of his own Theory of Archetypes and referred to the I Ching as "the most profound book ever to come from the East."

Books that relate the history of computers generally credit the digital theory that is the foundation of computer systems to Gottfried Leibniz, who is many times referred to as "the father of the digital revolution". The picture on the left is an illustration of the binary system that Leibniz created, and the picture below is an illustration of the 64 hexagrams of the I Ching. There is not much difference between the two illustrations as the picture on the left merely uses the numbers 0 and 1 rather than the symbols of Yin and Yang.

"In his article Explication de l'Arithmétique Binaire (1703) Gottfried Leibniz writes that he has found in the hexagrams a base for claiming the universality of the binary numeral system. He takes the layout of the combinatorial excercise found in the hexagrams to represent binary sequences, so that |||||| would correspond to the binary sequence 000000 and |||||: would be 000001, and so forth."

www.kerryr.net...

Originally posted by dave420
Or when it got you your medication?

Oh yeah, artificial un-natural medications are such a good thing

On the 28th of July, 2004, Reuters reported a study by HealthGrades, Inc., indicating that as many as 195,000 people a year could be dying in U.S. hospitals because of preventable errors. This number doubles previous figures from a 1999 study from the Institute of Medicine that said 98,000 people a year die from medical errors. Compared to various diseases, medical errors would be the sixth leading cause of death. I am not a medical professional, and to avoid quoting out of context, I attach below the original article in English for those interested readers.

Originally posted by dave420
Or when it got you cheap food?

You mean chemicalized unhealthy food full of pesticides, sugar, dyes, and things like that?

Originally posted by dave420
Or when it got you the internet?

Again, computers are ancient wisdom.

Also, modern technolgy has been intorduced to earth not gradually developed, it's not even of the earth's nature.

Originally posted by dave420Doesn't that strike you as strange, that you can find fault with the exact same methodology - the scientific method only when it contradicts something you've been taught by people with no knowledge of science? Why do you use a computer if its very existence is down to atheistic science? Or is one of the ten commandments "Thou must be a hypocrite and let everyone know it"?

I don't know about the 10 commandments, but since computers exist, they should be used to promote good culture and wholesome ideas, not science propaganda or bad things.

Originally posted by dave420
Charlton Heston was a christian fruitcake. He wouldn't know science if it came up and drew him a diagram. You can tell that because he, and those of his ilk, try to debunk science with flawed logic. It's a common thing to see people like that try to take down all of science (which they'd have to if they wanted to paint evolution as bunk, thanks to all the evidence it has supporting it). Pathetic.

Charleton Heston is just the Narrator and host, the science was done by real scientists, and there are too few scientists out there willing to debunk the conventional notions, like evolution.

You don't need to attack Mr. Heston.

Of course the video could be shown in the UK. Heck, you can show stuff on British TV you can only see on HBO or Showtime in the US. The problem is, though, that with most brits knowing about science (having been educated), the video would be (rightly) viewed as a comedy.

Enlightenment must suck for you - it means more and more people calling you out on your childish "logic" and perverted world-view. Too bad.

Your views are border-line crazy and unsubstantiated by reality.

Sorry to make you cry

Anyways, you're just not really informed, you don't get that most modern technology has been introduced recently and it's not of the earth's nature. We haven't had this kind of technology since 12,000 years ago, and then all of a sudden in one century it all just appears, or was "Developed" by science or humans? No, it was introduced and is not of the earth.





[edit on 10-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

reply to post by Hollywood11

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That's the best you could manage? Dear oh dear.

1. Read about what a computer is. Binary mathematics does not a computer make. They rely on many, many scientific principles and manufacturing techniques. Saying they exist solely because of binary maths is, well, retarded.

2. Unnatural medications have saved countless lives over the years. Chances are, without them, one of your direct ancestors would have died, and you'd not be here.

3. No, I mean the study of plant biology that allows us to grow even healthier plants. Or entomology, which allows us to understand how to germinate plants effectively. And not to mention all the science that went in to producing the equipment that allows people to farm such large expanses of ground.

4. Computers are not ancient wisdom. Repeating it does not make it true. Did the ancients know how to manufacture a solid-state transistor? Because if they didn't, then they didn't have a modern, useable computer, that is Turing complete. Knowing about 1s and 0s is not a computer.

5. "Science propaganda" is known to non-fundies as "knowledge". Shun it if you want to, just don't stop other people learning. That's what the Taliban did, and we had to whoop their asses.

6. Show me the real science behind it. Go on - get me the names of the scientists and the studies they quote. It's strange how you defend science when you imagine it's helping your argument, and shun it when it does the opposite. I don't have that problem - I know science is benign. I want to learn, not to wrap myself up in convenient lies that keep me warm at night.

I am well informed about computers (having been working with them since the early 90s, and having parents who coded since the 70s). I know that binary mathematics are an integral part of computers, but then I also know that binary is just base-2 (as opposed to our base-10), and as much is not that difficult to conceive of. As I said before, however, the solid-state transistor and the microprosessor are what makes today's powerful computers, and they weren't farted out by God. Science developed them, from the very first idea, to the chips that power the PC you're looking at - science crafted them, and science alone.

You act surprised that all of a sudden something came into existence. Well, as you know, first things don't exist, then they do. The point in between is obviously a finite point somewhere in time. It has to land somewhere, and it landed where it did, in the 20th century. If that blows your mind, as it seems to, then you have bigger problems.

Learn history. Learn about computers. Learn about science. Learn just how wrong you are. Grow as a person.

Originally posted by dave420
That's the best you could manage? Dear oh dear.

It's just all that was needed. Alot of your strawmen fallacies don't truly need to be addressed

1. Read about what a computer is. Binary mathematics does not a computer make. They rely on many, many scientific principles and manufacturing techniques. Saying they exist solely because of binary maths is, well, retarded.

I didn't say binary math was the "sole" reason for the existence of computers. Only you tried to say that I said that. What I said is that it is the only good part of computers, and it's the essense of computers.

Let me introduce you to my friend

2. Unnatural medications have saved countless lives over the years.

It may be possible that a drug caused a #ty life of suffering or boredom to be prolonged for a while, but what it really does is cause lives to be warped, changed, become something degenerated or lesser.

We can find a good example of this in the story of Star Wars and the fictional character of Anakin Skywalker. When he became Darth Vader, he no longer was what he once was, and was being kept alive by machines. He became more machine than man, twisted and evil.

Chances are, without them, one of your direct ancestors would have died, and you'd not be here.

I don't think I know anyone who would die because they didn't take drugs.

3. No, I mean the study of plant biology that allows us to grow even healthier plants. Or entomology, which allows us to understand how to germinate plants effectively. And not to mention all the science that went in to producing the equipment that allows people to farm such large expanses of ground.

Many ancient cultures were very skilled in agriculture and horticultur etc. But modern science has caused too many bad effects and only completely natural methods should ever be used on this planet.

The benefit does not outweigh the drawbacks when it comes to modern science.

4. Computers are not ancient wisdom. Repeating it does not make it true.

It seems you would deny ancient wisdom to your dying day due to a scientific worldview and/or atheism

Did the ancients know how to manufacture a solid-state transistor? Because if they didn't, then they didn't have a modern, useable computer, that is Turing complete. Knowing about 1s and 0s is not a computer.

You are not respecting the importance of this great mathematical and universal construct

Here watch this, they had computers over 2000 years ago, to navigate ships
video.google.com...

5. "Science propaganda" is known to non-fundies as "knowledge". Shun it if you want to, just don't stop other people learning. That's what the Taliban did, and we had to whoop their asses.

No, not eveyone who sees science for what it is is a "fundie" as you say. What's with the loaded terminology anyways?

If you don't understand that all science is truly about is money and power, you are deluded and a bit naive. It's not about finding great new technology for people's conveniece, better tv's, better computers, new drugs....it's simply about money and power in the end. Science is run by people who have never undergone an NDE, so it's run by selfish poeple who always corrupt it in the end. If you think science is a form of pure knowledge IMO that's a joke.

6. Show me the real science behind it. Go on - get me the names of the scientists and the studies they quote. It's strange how you defend science when you imagine it's helping your argument, and shun it when it does the opposite. I don't have that problem - I know science is benign. I want to learn, not to wrap myself up in convenient lies that keep me warm at night.

You expose yourself with your own words. Your scientific worldview is what gives you warm fuzzy feelings at night. Maybe you even really do buy into the propaganda that sicence can take the human race farther when it cannot.

Science can do nothing about people's hearts. Science cannot stomp out selfishness and corruption. What can? Only the Golden Rule, the NEW commandment given by Jesus Christ can save the world. Science can only destroy the world. This is the real hard truth.

I am well informed about computers (having been working with them since the early 90s, and having parents who coded since the 70s). I know that binary mathematics are an integral part of computers, but then I also know that binary is just base-2 (as opposed to our base-10), and as much is not that difficult to conceive of. As I said before, however, the solid-state transistor and the microprosessor are what makes today's powerful computers, and they weren't farted out by God.

If it's so easy to invent and figure out, why didn't western civilization discover it sooner?

You're trying to say "oh, base 10 is so superior"...no it's not. You couldn't have anything in this universe without base-2, because it's Yin and Yang. Everything is born of Yin and Yang, no matter how complex an equation, everything falls under Yin and Yang first.

Science developed them, from the very first idea, to the chips that power the PC you're looking at - science crafted them, and science alone.

No. Anything that exists today has existed in the past or been concieved of in the past. Radios, TVs, and Computers originally all came out of knowledge from far in the past about vibration and crystals that became re-discovered and re-introduced. Even electricity, it wasn't just discovered by Benjamin Fraklin, he actually knew about it because he had access to ancient knowledge that most people didn't. Think about the Baghdad Battery for example. They had batteries thousands of years ago

You act surprised that all of a sudden something came into existence. Well, as you know, first things don't exist, then they do. The point in between is obviously a finite point somewhere in time. It has to land somewhere, and it landed where it did, in the 20th century. If that blows your mind, as it seems to, then you have bigger problems.

No technology like today since 10,500 BC, then 12,000 years later it comes back


[edit on 10-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

I actually debunked that notion in a previous thread, maybe i'll bump it

Rest assured, you don't have "bacteria" DNA or "plant" DNA in you
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 10-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

reply to post by Hollywood11

---

"What I said is that it is the only good part of computers, and it's the essense of computers."

Then I challenge you to sequence a base pair of DNA on this "essence" of computers. The "ancients" didn't "know better" than to use computers and science - because they had no concept of them. To know better, they would have had to have known about them in the first place. There is NO evidence ANYWHERE that they had ANY sort of advanced knowledge or technology comparable to the computers we have today.

"It may be possible that a drug caused a #ty life of suffering or boredom to be prolonged for a while, but what it really does is cause lives to be warped, changed, become something degenerated or lesser."

Then I invite you to visit a nursing home or hospital and lead a campaign of euthenation too free those poor warped, bored, degerated souls of their misery. Lets see how far you get with that.

Life Expectancy around the world

Look at the above map. Note which countries have the longest lifespans, and which the shortest. Think you can spot the countries which rely on modern medicine?

"I don't think I know anyone who would die because they didn't take drugs."

Apparently you've never met a diabetic.

"The benefit does not outweigh the drawbacks when it comes to modern science."

Tell that to anyone who's ever relied on the Haber process to provide them the food they eat. I'm sure it won't be that hard, there's only a few billion of them.

"It seems you would deny ancient wisdom to your dying day due to a scientific worldview"

I can't speak for him, but yes. I would much prefer my scientific first world near paradise compared to a midevel bronze-age life of toil and suffering. "Ancient Knowledge" is just that - ancient. It was replaced by new ways of thinking and newly discovered knowledge because it produced better results.

Oh those foolish Iron Age simpletons who neglected the wisdom of their Stone Age ancestors!

"Here watch this, they had computers over 2000 years ago, to navigate ships"

Ok. Go sailing and use that to navigate. I'll get a boat too, but I'll use GPS navigation, detailed satellite maps, and radio communications to warn of storms. We'll see who gets to the destination first. Oh, and watch out for those wacky sea monsters which populate your maps.

"It's not about finding great new technology for people's conveniece, better tv's, better computers, new drugs."

If you think scientists get rich from their research, then you are sadly mistaken. It is about exploration, discovery, and making people's lives better. But knowledge is inert. It can be used for both good and evil purposes. For both free exchange, and for commercialism. Knowledge, and science, just is.

"Science is run by people who have never undergone an NDE"

From your insistence on NDE's, I'm going to go out on a limb and suppose that you had one yourself. You might want to go in for an MRI sometime to make sure there wasn't any permanent damage to your brain.

"Science can do nothing about people's hearts. Science cannot stomp out selfishness and corruption. What can? Only the Golden Rule, the NEW commandment given by Jesus Christ can save the world."

We've had 2,000 years of Jesus's "Golden Rule", much of it being well before modern science. It hasn't helped. Maybe it just needs another 2,000 years?

"Everything is born of Yin and Yang, no matter how complex an equation, everything falls under Yin and Yang first."

Explain Yin and Yang's role in Pi, please.

"No. Anything that exists today has existed in the past or been concieved of in the past."

You mean like plastics? (Rubber and plastic aren't the same thing, btw)

"No technology like today since 10,500 BC, then 12,000 years later it comes back"

lol wut?

Originally posted by Hollywood11
I actually debunked that notion in a previous thread, maybe i'll bump it

Rest assured, you don't have "bacteria" DNA or "plant" DNA in you
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 10-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

lol, u dun kno the difrenc batwen Bacteria und an Eukaryote!!111

Originally posted by Lasheic

Then I challenge you to sequence a base pair of DNA on this "essence" of computers. The "ancients" didn't "know better" than to use computers and science - because they had no concept of them. To know better, they would have had to have known about them in the first place. There is NO evidence ANYWHERE that they had ANY sort of advanced knowledge or technology comparable to the computers we have today.

I'll tell you right now that no matter how far microscopes have seen into the human body, the ancients in their meditations could see much farther and deeper

Even DNA is explained by the pre-heaven I Ching
www.kheper.net...

Many ancient people understod nature and lived in nature far better than modern science can enable people to. Modern science takes away people's natural abilities and seperates them from nature, making them dependant on modern science.

Then I invite you to visit a nursing home or hospital and lead a campaign of euthenation too free those poor warped, bored, degerated souls of their misery. Lets see how far you get with that.

Look at the above map. Note which countries have the longest lifespans, and which the shortest. Think you can spot the countries which rely on modern medicine?

Life expectancy increased mostly because of vaccinations. Then again, they increased Autism so alot people ended up like ghosts anyways.

Apparently you've never met a diabetic.

Diabetes is caused by unhealthy and un-natural living, refined sugar, and things like that, whether in one lifetime or over generations. It's a result of modern science.

Tell that to anyone who's ever relied on the Haber process to provide them the food they eat. I'm sure it won't be that hard, there's only a few billion of them.

modern science also has caused alot of problems in the world like cancer, extinction, global warming, and overpopulation though.

I can't speak for him, but yes. I would much prefer my scientific first world near paradise compared to a midevel bronze-age life of toil and suffering. "Ancient Knowledge" is just that - ancient. It was replaced by new ways of thinking and newly discovered knowledge because it produced better results.

Ok I'll tell you right now, how good a life humans will live is first and foremost determined by their morality. WIthout morality humans will be destroyed, with high moral standards they will live well.

While it's true that many ancient people were primitive and lived poorly, some were far beyond modern people.

The native americans lived in harmony with the earth for 12,000 years and then the white men with technology destroyed and polluted the lands because they don't know how to live in balance with nature.

Oh those foolish Iron Age simpletons who neglected the wisdom of their Stone Age ancestors!

Some poeple inherited teachings from advanced prehistoric civilizations

Ok. Go sailing and use that to navigate. I'll get a boat too, but I'll use GPS navigation, detailed satellite maps, and radio communications to warn of storms. We'll see who gets to the destination first. Oh, and watch out for those wacky sea monsters which populate your maps.

reply to post by Hollywood11

---

Even DNA is explained by the pre-heaven I Ching

That's lovely. Got anything peer reviewed? You can also make all kinds of predictions about the future by reading a special "code" from the bible - or from Moby Dick, or from really any sufficiently long document.

Dude, this holds even less water than Sumerians and Nibiru. At least they had (misinterpreted) tablets showing what they (supposedly) knew.

Oh, and by the way, the link to where he got the diagram is broken.

Life expectancy increased mostly because of vaccinations.

Actually, jumps in life expectancy can be contributed to technological developments in fields such as sanitation, medicine, agriculture, etc. Vaccines have been around since the late 1800's, but it was only in the last 50 years that life expectancies have nearly doubled. Tripled in some countries. Vaccinations did play a role though.

Ohhh, but you're right. An increase in a non-fatal condition like Altruism is a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE price to pay for the near/eradication of some of the deadliest diseases that man has known and saved hundreds of millions of lives. We should have taken a lesson from our ancestors ancient knowledge during the Plauge and just DIED rather than be subjected to the horrors of ALTRUISM!!! [/sarcasm]

Oh, and you might want to research a bit on what modern medicine has done to radically decrease both infant mortality. The ole' natural way of giving birth is actually quite painful and known to cause both the death of the child and the mother.

Diabetes is caused by unhealthy and un-natural living

Uh, that's Type II diabetes. Type I diabetes occurs in healthy patients as well, and usually develops during childhood. Try again.

modern science also has caused alot of problems in the world like cancer, extinction, global warming, and overpopulation though.

Cancer, Extinction, Global Warming (and cooling), and overpopulation all predate mankind and technology. Try again.

Ok I'll tell you right now, how good a life humans will live is first and foremost determined by their morality.

Now, which morality are you speaking of? The morality that lead Joshua to slaughter every last man woman and child in Jerihcho, or the morality that lead 13 men to slam commerical airliners into skyscrapers? (And even if you reject that, you have no further to look than facist Sharia law for example of some good ole' fashioned god given morals)

The native americans lived in harmony with the earth for 12,000 years and then the white men with technology destroyed and polluted the lands because they don't know how to live in balance with nature.

Wooooow, do you have a distorted view of the impact Native Americans had on the environment.

For example, did you know that Native Americans along the Californian coast used to burn vast acerages of brushland to promote certain game stocks?
www.californiachaparral.com...

Oh, and by the way, Native Americans often readily adopted white man's technology in exchanges. Guns for their tribal infighting, pots and pans, medicine, alcohol. Hell, the British and the French played tribes off of one another in exchange for protection and technology.

Some poeple inherited teachings from advanced prehistoric civilizations

And we still use some of those concepts today. My car has wheels. My lighter operates on flint and steel.

That's the point. You keep what works, and you discard what doesn't work once a new discovery is made that actually does work. That's called progress.

Real life is about power and money.

No, that's a part of life. That is not what life is about. It was a part of life in ancient cultures, and it's a part of life now. Human beings are more than two dimensional power mongers, and it's a real shame that cannot see beyond that.

reply to post by Hollywood11

---

Some things, like cloning humans for example, are obviously just wrong

Identical Twins must perish!!! Kill those un-natural freaks of nature!

Oh wait... they come from nature don't they... but... they are clones.... but they come from nature... but.....

Also, all theories and all research first come out of the ideas of the people and culture who think them up and will serve their wishes regardless of the price that has to be paid.

Including those made by ancient cultures, correct? I don't think you understand just how integrated technology is to the human animal. If you pick up a rock and smash a walnut - you're using technology.

NDE's are scientifically proven and we know the mind is not dependant on the physical body or brain.

PubMed.nih.gov
Find me one credible article on that site. Even if not on the site, where is the peer reviewed litterature? How has it been proven? What method? What measurements? And did they use that "evil godless techonolgy" you so vehemently despise to prove it, or did they drill a hole in your skull and peer into your brain to see if the soul left?

We CAN determine and prove brain damage occurs from asphyxiation commonly associated with patients that have been resuscitated after clinical death though.

The golden rule and goodness is responsible for eveything that is here today.

The Golden Rule of Jesus is responsible for all the "godless technology", evil money and power grubbing science, the pollution, cancer, Pop music?

This Golden Rule sounds horrible. They must not have had it in the guilded age of living in trees and communing with nature.

Goodness, love, and attraction is the nature of the entire universe.

So which combinations and in which amounts of those qualities creates the physical properties of the universe such as gravity? Wait... gravity can create black holes! There's a supermassive one at the center of our Galaxy! Is that a case of too much of a good thing?

The interactions of Yin and Yang is how the universe itself was formed.

That's not an answer. Can you DEMONSTRATE how Yin and Yang have an effect on Pi? Can you use Yin and Yang to solve for the 500 millionth place of Pi? Do you have any mathematical evidence for how Yin and Yang operate within the confines of solving for Pi?

I could say Gin and Tang are responsible for Yin and Yang because Yin and Yang cannot exist without Gin and Tang - it came before and makes up everything in our universe. It is the underpinnings for the underpinnings of how everything is formed!

Neither of which holds any weight or merit because they cannot be proven, nor do they have any useful, testable, repeatable, or demonstratable effect.

Wait, scratch that... Gin and Tang beats Yin and Yang. At least Gin and Tang can get you drunk. I'll bet I can do a cross study of 10 million random people and get near 100% positive results that the power of Gin and Tang has touched them all with it's divine debilitancy.

Do you want a head to head competition on the effectiveness of our conflicting ideas? If I can get more people divinely drunk than you can to feel the power of "I Chong", then I win.

Oh, and as for plastics, they saturate nearly every single aspect of your life - including your computer which also has some nasty chemicals in it. So get off my internet you hypocrite. If you had enough testicular fortititude to actually stand by your convictions you'd be living living like the Amish. At least THEY know how to practice what they preach.

[edit on 11-6-2008 by Lasheic]

[edit on 11-6-2008 by Lasheic]

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