To those who reside in the United States, I remind you of your own foundation

This is the best thing I have read on here in awhile and I wanted others in the NWO forums to read it and give a opinion.

I never knew your declaration stated this information.

original poster:johnsky
It has been a long time since fascism has taken root in the minds of a nation. Fascism, like a slowly heated kettle, takes time to be noticed. Small and seemingly innocent steps toward the security of the people, often end up to amount to the slave like ownership of the people by a select few; the government.

We spent a great number of resources and lives to combat fascism many decades ago. Who would have conceived it would be right here, in the free nations, that fascism would seek to infect a host?


When the people of a nation live in fear of being confused with the enemy of their government, those people are silenced from having a valid opinion. Neighbors will allow neighbors, family will allow family, and friends will allow friends, to be taken by their government in the dead of night, without hesitation, nor question as to why. The government need only declare them traitors or terrorists to justify their actions.

The next time you hear of someone being declared a traitor or a terrorist, ask those who declare them so, Why?
You will be surprised to find they haven't a single answer.

The United States are comprised of good people, like you and I. They do not deserve this fascist treatment any more than we do.
So why then, is it that we the people who reside out of the United States stand by and watch as their rights and freedoms are revoked? Do we seriously believe this infection cannot plant roots where we live?

We have all heard the drone like repetition of the governments wishes through the people of the United States. Suggestions that revoking the rights and freedoms of the people are done for security, and will be re-instated. Anyone who has even briefly read their history knows; those rights and freedoms will never be restored willingly.

And it is to those who reside in the United States, I remind you of your own foundation. A single paragraph, scribed through beauty, that once was used to define your nation. Lets pray you take heed once more.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

source declaration of independence

Thanks for posting this, but we need to keep something in mind. While The Declaration of Independence is a beautifully written document which provided justification to our split with England in 1776, The Constitution is the document by which our laws are derived...that was the founding fathers' intent anyhow. I just skimmed through The Bill of Rights, and subsequent ammendments again. I think you'll be hardpressed to find any statement in our constitution that provides for the right of the people to overthrow the government - with the exception of the right to vote.

[edit on 9-6-2008 by Hugues de Payens]

reply to post by Hugues de Payens


that's because the constitution was designed to protect those in power, not the ones ruled by said power. As my U.S. History Professor put it, "The United States is not a democracy, it's not ruled by the people. It's a republic made possible due to the laws stated in the Constitution."

in a way, i'm saddened to see that the words, "Give me liberty or give me death" have lost their meaning

reply to post by Daedalus24



That's not neccessarily true. We have the right to speak freely. We have the right to let our house and senate representatives know how we feel. They do, after all represent us and our wishes. With enough public pressure on its members, Congress can impeach. We have the right to petition. We have the right to peaceful protest. Martin Luther King Jr, for example, relative to civil rights. He and his movement acheived in a few years what should have been granted upon the adoption of the Declaration. There CAN be change based on grass roots opinion. If you feel strongly enough about something become an activist.

Nothing makes this country more great than the ability of its population to effect change in its government - peaceful change. Call me naive if you like but I honestly believe that.

"Give me liberty or give me death".....strong words, but I suspect most people in the US are too comfortable in their lives to make any real sacrifice like Mr. King did. Afterall is said and done, the government has gotten so bloated, one would have a hard time trying to figure out where to begin the fix.

in a way, i'm saddened to see that the words, "Give me liberty or give me death" have lost their meaning

These words haven't meant anything for a while, but everyday we get a little closer to breathing meaning back into this phrase.

On the day the government takes away the wrong Right, there will be war, and I, like others, will be fighting.

What I think is happening is that methods of protest like non-violence are losing their kick. We should move on to the next step if we want to make a difference. Maybe it's about time to throw some tea in the harbor.

reply to post by Hugues de Payens


Given the language of the time and terminology , how would or should one interpret " That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

I`m all for peaceful measures but I am also realistic. I can vote, write my congressmen, get a permit for a peaceful protest (provided I am approved for it) In fact every American can do these things and I still do not see it changing anything. If the government wants things to stay as are then they will. Our laws provide them with that security.
The day the Presidents life became more important than the lives of our Soldiers is the day we were shown that our Government does not work for us but rather we work for them. We have made them enough money that if we all quit tomorrow they would be fine...it would be us that suffer.

I was given some sage wisdom from a very decorated soldier..His statement was: " A tyrant is only a tyrant until he takes his last breath. I'm here to see that he does just that!" He also said that tyrants are bread both here and abroad and he realy didn't care which as long as the Constitution was still in place when it was over!

Zindo

Originally posted by Hugues de Payens
I think you'll be hardpressed to find any statement in our constitution that provides for the right of the people to overthrow the government - with the exception of the right to vote.

I think you're writing your post with little regard as to the intent & purpose for those Rights. The 1st Amendment describes the tools to peacefully steer the government back on the right track: Free Speech & Free Press are supposed to keep the populace well-informed, while the Right to Petition for Redress of Grievances is to directly confront the government with the declaration that "something's not right & needs corrected." These Rights came from the example set by the King's Nobles in England, when they confronted him with the Magna Carta.

If all of the peaceful methods come to naught, then comes the threat of force to set the government straight...This concept also comes from the Magna Carta, in which the King had to agree by its terms or face the threat of violence from the armies of the Nobles. This threat of force is also implied in the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence.

If the mere threat of force fails, then comes the exercise of our 2nd Amendment...The mere wording is such to imply the threat of force, whereas the People Bearing Arms is the force itself.

Originally posted by Daedalus24
that's because the constitution was designed to protect those in power, not the ones ruled by said power. As my U.S. History Professor put it, "The United States is not a democracy, it's not ruled by the people. It's a republic made possible due to the laws stated in the Constitution."

Yes, the Constitution was made for a Republic, but it had set specific limitations on the government in order to protect the People, not the government itself: The stealthy violations of the Supreme Law of the Land committed by those in various Offices have altered the system of government from being a Republic into being a Democracy, therefore it can no longer protect the People as the Republic was designed to do.

Someone asked Ben Franklin what was wrought, right after the Constitution was enacted...He replied, "A republic, if you can keep it." His admonition to watch & guard our government against unwanted change became a prophecy...We've lost the republic because of a corrupted government & now the People suffer because of it.

In this very realistic sense, your US History Professor had misinterpreted the difference between what the government was when it was made & what it has become since then...From what you say he told you, it sounds like he still thinks that the government of today constrains itself to Constitutional limitations, but in reality it isn't: The People are more ruled over by the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) & the Admiralty Court than we are by Constitutional Law. The USA does not operate like the Constitutional Republic that it should be...It resembles something much closer to Corporate Fascism. Today, very nearly all government Officers violate their legally binding Oaths to obey the Constitution on a regular & consistent basis.

The Founding Forefathers were learned men, highly educated: They abhorred Democracy as much as the Cold War Era Americans abhorred Communism, all for good reason. Democracy is nothing less than mob rule where one person with a good PR campaign can sway 51% of the population into voting away the Rights of the other 49%, just as Hitler did with a Democratic Germany & just as it's happening in America today.

The Constitution was written with the Laws of Nature in mind, designed to set limitations & a system of checks & balances upon government, just as Nature sets these very same systems upon all of the creatures living within an ecosystem. It was these very same checks, balances & limitations is what the corrupted Government Officers have violated, stealing powers from the sovereign People & violating the checks & balances between the three Branches that have upset the "ecosystem" of the nation & the People as a whole.

The Executive Branch have stolen powers of Legislation from Congress with its Executive Orders & Signing Statements...It has "stacked" the Judiciary in favor of decreasing accountability in the Executive. The Executive has abandoned its duty to enforce Immigration so that our nation becomes overpopulated beyond the ability of our "ecosystem" to bear the load.

Many, many more such violations against the Constitution, performed incrementally with stealth over a long period of time, add up to an extreme of violation of the very same Supreme Law that all government Officers are legally-bound by Oath to obey. These types of violations would cause similar suffering to any creature-species that violate the Laws of Nature.

In the example of the Executive Branch allowing extreme overpopulation by not enforcing the Immigration Laws, what happens to any animal species that overpopulates it's environment? The species begins to suffer as the environment fails to support the extra numbers...Natural Law kicks in to reduce that overpopulation through starvation & famine. As the USA becomes overpopulated, our social infrastructures break down, because they can no longer support the excessive numbers & the People suffer from deprivation of those very same needs...Economically, as the prices of food continue to rise, fewer People can afford to eat, then starvation & desperation motivates the survival instinct to kick in.

Originally posted by Hugues de Payens
Afterall is said and done, the government has gotten so bloated, one would have a hard time trying to figure out where to begin the fix.

Well, what do some people do when they get too bloated? In the case of a government grown bloated, the realistic "fix" would be to reduce the size of government, re-enforcing the limitations proscribed by the Constitution & also by consequence, reduce the cost of running it...The government has stolen too much power & must be reduced back to the levels it never should have grown out of. Some people get liposuction to remove bloat, so in effect, the government needs liposuction too!