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UK society 'demonising' children

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posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by Anti-Tyrant
 

Cultural pride and identity is more important than you realise. It is the gel that binds individuals together to create a community. Sure, it'd be nice if being human were enough to help people see eye-to-eye but right now, in our day and age the cultural differences are too great. Why would you want to lose them anyway? The past holds the key to the future.




posted on Jun, 10 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by mlmijyd
I see from the above posts that the tradition of 'creating' problem children is secure with all those that promote beating-smacking or whatever word you care to use to justify what can only be called - violence towards another. If you can't teach without violence then don't have children, simple.

Discipline with violence only enforces the lesson that this it is OK to inflict violence thus the cycle has started and will continue with all the implications this has for society.

This view will not sit well with most because most participate in this form of discipline with violence and then wonder what has created violent people?


What utter doodars, when I was growing up at school you feared your teacher and even worse the headmaster, playing in the street you feared your neighbours or adults who knew your parents or the copper on patrol.

Why did you fear all these people, because if you did wrong and got found out your mom would either give you a clout or would say "wait till your father gets home", I always shivered when that phrase was said.

Giving a child a smack is not violence, it is doing what any parent would do with a unruly child, never watched wildlife progs were the lion gives the cub a "bite" just to pull them back into line ???

When I was a teenager I knew if I was doing something for a laugh and it was something wrong if I got found out I knew what was coming, that in itself made it more exciting, but if I got caught I took the punishment without any complaint.

The main problem as I see it today is that kids, teens are given so much leeway is that they themselves do not know what or where the boundaries are any longer.

Ask yourself this question, why should I a 42 year old bloke need to be carrying a form of defence when I walk around where I live, the answer because teens who have no fear of the law, their school or parents are carrying too.

Wolfie



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by mlmijyd
 


What an absolute load of liberal dross, and i'm sorry to not show respect for your views but they're essentially rubbish. I was raised very well, i've never commited any crime, i'm well behaved, liked and respected. When i was growing up people always commented on the good behavior of me and my brother. The reason for this is because when we knew that if we really misbehaved there would be a smack coming. Smacking works as long as it isn't overused.

The rest of your post i agree with, parents take no responsibility for their childrens behavior. If i'd misbehaved in such a way my parents would have felt like the whole neighborhood was judging them and made sure we acted right. It's abotu time we made parents accountable.

[edit on 10-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]


That's so funny me being called a liberal (if only you knew)


But, I see your response as a typically one of 'denial'. The only way you can justify your parents beating you is to make it some how fit a belief that violence is ok. Anyway good luck with that!



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by Wolfie_UK


Yet again another adult that needs to create a world where violence is ok to justify being beaten by his loving parents. Good luck with the denial there! You might want to pass that on to all those other victims of child abuse as that might help them understand why they are they way they are?



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 02:54 AM
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This is a prime example of what happens to a society that deviates from it's Constitution.

It's your fault, it's my fault - We let the Nanny State penetrate every orifice of our lives and now we get to deal with the by-products of our lack of political action.

We Banned things just because we could... now we have cameras in our Garbage bins and you can't even use a camera in London anymore... Filthy Terrorist!

Porch Heaters? Ban Them
Fire Pits? Banned
Smoking? Forget it!
Free Speech? Sure, but only in the "Free Speech Cage"
Unemployment? Banned - Boot Camp for you!
Styrofoam Cup? Banned!
Spray Deodorant? Banned!
Hate Speech? Banned - you better not say "Homosexual"
Child Dropping Bread Crumbs? Banned!
Booze? Ban coming soon...

Is it any wonder our Youths are rebelling.

They are being born into an enslaved society, where they are forced to Thumb-scan for Lunch at school and are drugged if they don't fit in.

They are told the cameras in their Potty Room are for their own good - even if it feels wrong. The teachers don't complain....

They are harassed by police for walking down the street - alone or in groups, it does not matter. Children clump together into groups. It is their way.

Sometimes they are beaten and arrested, even electrotortured for this vile act of existence.

Is it any wonder our Youths are Rebelling?
Perhaps we should heed their unwillingness to comply with the Police State.
These 'children' will be the ones to free us from it.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by mlmijyd
 


OK, you have multiple people telling you that the threat of smacking and the occasional smack kept them from misbehaving, kept them from commiting crime, gave thema respect for their elders and parents and you still say it doesn't work?

You're an idiot, i'm tired of this, i had parents who gave me the occasional smack when i was very badly behaved and i'm not in denial about it. I'm perfectly sane, never been in trouble and generally go about without causing trouble to anyone. Smacking works and that's a simple fact. We have here testimony from multiple people saying how it worked in their families, please provide some statistics saying it does'nt work to back up your stupid, unsubstantiated claims.

The only time it won't work is if it's used all the time, non stop whenever a child does something bad. Parents who slap their kids at every opportunity when they get slightly annoyed are a problem and not the people we need raising kids. That's different from the occasional smack as a last resort. Do you have kids? Are they well behaved? It's amazing how many of the liberal parents out there have kids who they never slapped and are so badly behaved when they're away from their parents it's shocking.

It worked for me, it seems to have worked for many others, that to me is a fact that can't be denied.

reply to post by doctormcauley
 



You're kidding right? Whilst i don't like the nany state the kids rebelling has nothing to do with it. The law isn't harsh enough for kids, they get off with pretty much everything and so they misbehave because they can. If most adults could get away with it i think we'd see adults causing trouble as well, fear of being arrested and sent to prison keeps most adults in line. Of course many adults keep in line because they're genuinly nice people which is of course better.

Kids aren't just rebelling against authority here, there are groups of kids kicking people to death in our streets, menacing people to buy them alcohol, vandalising property. that's nothing to do with rebellion agains tthe state, these kids don't even understand the state and how it works so i doubt they'd rebel against it.

[edit on 11-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 03:27 AM
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Kids assaulting you? Shoot them, Stab them.

Englishmen have a right to defend themselves.

Creating new laws only feeds the Nanny State - who is best friends with the Police State.... and they share



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 05:32 AM
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The problem is everywhere not just the UK. I've noticed a number of disturbing things in recent times.
1. Kids are not taught respect like I was in my youth. Kids just don't get up in busses or trains for ladies or even the elderly or disabled.
2. The laws make adults hesitate to discipline kids. Back in the day if any of my peers didn't get up for a lady any man nearby wouldn't hesitate to give that child a tongue-lashing or if necessary pull that child up by the ear. Nowadays you'll get a jail-sentence for that or the kids will fight back and their buddies will gang up on you.
3. Not too long ago I overheard a conversation between 2 young girls of around 12 or 13. The words coming out of their mouths were scary. Again, back in the day we didn't dare speak like that with adults around. It's not only that we didn't dare, it was that we didn't do it cos we respected adults.
4. Lately I've been thinking that girls are 'developing' earlier now than they did in my day. I have however realised that they might not be developing earlier (although they might be, I dont' know), rather that they are wearing more revealing clothing than girls dared to wear back then. Kids are 'growing up' way too fast. If I had teenage daughters they would have to walk over my dead body dressed like that. I ogle sexy babes as much as the next guy, but nowadays you have to be careful who you ogle or you could get yourself locked up


To me it all comes down to RESPECT. We were taught respect in school and at home. From the evidence I've seen I doubt it gets taught anywhere. I don't blame the kids, I blame the parents.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 06:21 AM
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In the last few years we have seen the rise of insidious PC, which has contributed greatly to the misbehaviour we are seeing now.

This article is another example of that misguided way of thinking.

The single biggest culprit is the myth of "inclusion"

Because of this, competetive sports are demonised, academic streaming is demonised, telling a child they are wrong is demonised.

It goes like this:
"Oh but what about the poor kids who are no good at sports - they'll feel left out, so let's ban sports"

"Oh that poor kid is no good at academic work, let's take competition out of the equation and lump all the kids together, so that the bright ones aren't seen to be better"

"Oh we can't tell a kid they got an answer wrong, that might make them feel bad"

So what we get is a generation of kids that think the world owes them a living, that they can do know wrong, and that blames society for not giving them everything they want.

Dumbing down educational standards and taking competition out of schools does nothing except create the problems we are seeing now.

Then along come the hand-wringers and blame everyone and everything but their own misguided policies.

Ban the bloody guardian and other trendy left wing liberal elites who spout this nonsense and get back to basics - and that includes teaching kids about the real world.

Not the fuzzy, huggy world some people have in their heads.

[edit on 11/6/2008 by budski]



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by mlmijyd
 


OK, you have multiple people telling you that the threat of smacking and the occasional smack kept them from misbehaving, kept them from commiting crime, gave thema respect for their elders and parents and you still say it doesn't work?

You're an idiot, i'm tired of this, i had parents who gave me the occasional smack when i was very badly behaved and i'm not in denial about it. I'm perfectly sane, never been in trouble and generally go about without causing trouble to anyone. Smacking works and that's a simple fact. We have here testimony from multiple people saying how it worked in their families, please provide some statistics saying it does'nt work to back up your stupid, unsubstantiated claims.

The only time it won't work is if it's used all the time, non stop whenever a child does something bad. Parents who slap their kids at every opportunity when they get slightly annoyed are a problem and not the people we need raising kids. That's different from the occasional smack as a last resort. Do you have kids? Are they well behaved? It's amazing how many of the liberal parents out there have kids who they never slapped and are so badly behaved when they're away from their parents it's shocking.

It worked for me, it seems to have worked for many others, that to me is a fact that can't be denied.

reply to post by doctormcauley
 


[edit on 11-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]


So I'm an idiot based on my not adhering to a recipe of violence to enforce discipline? Yes, I think it has worked for you as you are clearly in control of your emotions and have your non-idiot status to prove it. Well done!

"Do you have kids? Are they well behaved? It's amazing how many of the liberal parents out there have kids who they never slapped and are so badly behaved when they're away from their parents it's shocking."

Two boys 9 and 4 never laid a finger on either (that's both parents), never shouted or lost temper with either. I'm proud of their intellect and their innocence and ability to look at the world through child eyes. Of course they are model well behaved children becasue they are a product of true prenatal love.

Its a pity that they have to meet children that have been abused through prenatal violence because of these parents not having the ability to teach through love. I on the other hand had parents that bordered on Alcoholic and was beaten frequently and not for being a 'naughty' child. I would regard myself not as poor but in the UK if your getting charity clothes and catholic food boxes when things were very tight then it might be classed as poor? Went on my first holiday aged 11 to Butlins, was in the lowest classes i.e. remedial (I later found out that I wasn't an 'idiot but actually dyslexic) Oh, and was on the wrong side of the Irish troubles, we were forced out of Belfast at gunpoint, wrong religion apparently and used to have the British Army get us out of bed at 4am whilst they searched for guns?

So no silver spoon!



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by budski
 



Well said budski.

Luckily, not every part of the UK is infected in this manner, but the problems and issues are spreading.

I know and love Devon and Cornwall and the difference between them and a lot of other UK counties is quite amazing to be honest.

Some of the changes I've seen in Plymouth are quite sad though, but they are nothing in comparison to a few towns around the London area.



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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What amazes me when these issues are discussed is the enlightened callousness and benign tyranny. So someone comes from a broken home or lives on a rough estate, that makes it ok to brutalise the people they come into contact with, and if they do murder, it should be treated as something less because they're the victims as much as the dead father they kicked to death. In fact in a way the guy deserved it because he's a part of the society that 'created' this problem. Utter BS. It's almost Kafka-esque in it's bizzarre deniel and shows a shocking disregard for basic human values and exposes the lie of their compassion and social concern.

The fact is the parents who really are neglecting their kids, dragging them up and abusing them are the same kids from ten years ago that the bleeding hearts were also stridently defending...the cycle continues. So now we not only have the scum bags on the streets we have the scum bag parents living next door to you and making your life a misery. And middle aged men feel compelled to carry some form of weapon around with them because otherwise they are totally defenceless against the casual sadism of these 'poor misunderstood kids'.

Welcome to enlightened Britain.



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