NOBama Nation: 1.7 Trillon required for Universal Healthcare AND Global Poverty Act

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posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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Reparations for slavery is just a rip off. In this world's history, all people have at one time or another lived in slavery. Slavery is still practised in Africa, by Africans against Africans.
The slaves who came here worked as hard as anyone to build this country and now their descendants are living here, enjoying the benefits of not only their enslaved ancestors but the whites, mexicans, chinese and others that had a hand in building this nation.
I would say yes to reparations if those who accept it move to Africa with no return. If we give them back pay as migrant laborers, they should go home when the job is done. It's done now and they have become a nuisance rather than an asset.




posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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Well I just heard on NPR that the $2.7 trillion is the actual TAX REVENUE that will not be there with Obama's plan.

Guess how much would be missing with McCain's? Something like $3.7 trillion. For anyone who doesn't know how to subtract, that is $1 trillion more than Obama!

Obama vs McCain: Taxing and Spending


Under McCain's proposals, by contrast -- including an extension of the Bush tax cuts for all taxpayers, a corporate tax cut, and a larger reduction in estate taxes than Obama would support -- far more of the benefits would go to the top. If his plans went into effect in 2009, married couples in the bottom fifth of the population would see aftertax income go up just 0.2%, while those in the next quintile would see a 0.7% hike. But those in the top quintile would see a bump up in aftertax income of 2.7%.

"It's just flat wrong" to say people would do worse under Obama, says Berman. "Most lower- and middle-class people would pay less taxes under Obama than they would under the proposals being put forth by McCain."


Ah tax cuts for the rich and higher taxes for the middle class and poor, the Republican way. Trickle down economics my ass!


All Depends How You Figure It
The two candidates' tax plans would change overall government tax revenues in vastly different ways. But by how much? That depends on how the impact is measured. Under current tax law, the Bush tax cuts are supposed to expire for all taxpayers at the end of 2010, so the current estimates by the Congressional Budget Office for tax revenues beyond those years assume that rates go back to the levels in effect before the tax cuts took effect. The top income tax rate, for example, is assumed to rise from today's 35% to the old top rate of 39.6%.

Using that assumption as a baseline, the Tax Policy Center looked at the impact of all the changes in tax law that each of the candidates has proposed. If McCain's proposed tax changes were put into effect, the Treasury would lose $3.7 trillion in revenue for the 10-year period between 2009 and 2018, compared with what it would take in under current law. If all of Barack Obama's tax plans were put into effect, the loss to the Treasury would be $2.7 trillion in revenues.


"McCain's Economist Supporters vs. Facts"

So next time you blindly support one candidate, why don't you actually look at what they plan on doing "for" (yeah that's a joke) the country?

McCain will end up costing us MORE than Obama, and all the McCain apologists claim he's a better choice.

Riiiight.

Read. It does a mind good.

Let me break it down for y'all. McCain will borrow from foreign investors/governments, while Obama will tax us so we actually pay for it ourselves. In layman's terms: our federal deficit goes up, and we end up owing more and more to countries like CHINA.

That sounds like somebody who wants us to stop relying on foreign support.

[edit on 6/12/2008 by biggie smalls]



posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 

That is some interesting information. Star for you.

I think that this is something that everyone is going to have to come to realize. The enormous deficit that we have now, is going to have to be dealt with. That means paying it off, or at least working on reducing it. I would actually like to hear more from both of the candidates on how we will deal with it. I would like to hear they plan on bringing government spending under control, with the exception of health care reform. I think it is an investment that is long overdue.



posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 09:47 PM
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The deficit don't mean jack .. it has been going up on average 1 to 2 Trillion a year per administration and this is not going to change.

Russia and dozens of other countries owe the US money that they'll never pay back.

The American Dollar won't be around too much longer, so any bonds in that currency will have to be switched or dropped.

Bottom line, Obama is going to tax you bigtime to pay for all this stuff in solving the world's problems. It isn't going to solve anything, your money will just get abused more than it ever has by the government.

These higher taxes aren't going to improve Africa's problems, nor is the US responsibility to do so. The ruling militias for governments in Africa just take the money and use as they wish, and it sure as hell isn't for the people. Your money went for a supposedly good cause, but got intercepted. It is always intercepted and redirected accordingly, out of your control.

You should want to keep your hard-earned money and support your family directly, not let the highly dsyfunctional government do it, especially with Obama at the reigns.



[edit on 12-6-2008 by jetxnet]



posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 


so biggie smalls, maybe im just misunderstanding the information you posted. but after reading it, it sounds like the mccain plan will save taxpayers 3.7 trillion, while the obama will only save 2.7 trillion.

saving over a trillion dollars over another plan for the people of america sounds like the way to go to me.



posted on Jun, 12 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by tdubz
so biggie smalls, maybe im just misunderstanding the information you posted. but after reading it, it sounds like the mccain plan will save taxpayers 3.7 trillion, while the obama will only save 2.7 trillion.

saving over a trillion dollars over another plan for the people of america sounds like the way to go to me.


That is partially right. "Saving" taxpayers money is really a misnomer though. While Obama may raise taxes, (on the rich mainly) it appears he does not want to BORROW money from foreign countries as McCain does want to do.

This is a bait and switch deal. McCain's plan seems to save taxpayers a whopping $1 trillion, but it mentions nothing about the deficit. McCain would like Americans to think he is saving us all money, but in all actuality he is getting it from somewhere else, which HAS to be paid back at some point. And guess where it comes from? China. China now owns our national debt, which means it owns our currency.

You won't hear that on Faux News.

The money is not going to come out of thin air in either case. One plan involves somewhat higher taxes and the other involves borrowing more money.

How much money either candidate will spend/borrow/tax is yet to be decided as the executive branch does not make law; that's the legislative branch's job. So really no matter what either candidate says, it is up to those in the legislative branch to formulate the law.



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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This is unbelievable. jetxnet you are a riot. Here you are saying that you used Obama's website to come up with the 1.7 trillion dollars in cost...


Originally posted by jetxnet
The 1.7 million is derived from Obama's own Campaign site.

It is broken down policy by policy and tabulated across this policies on this site:

www.dontvoteobama.net...

This site has the breakdown and the cited sources going straight back to your favorite site, barackobama.com, on a policy by policy basis.


but then you criticize someone else for using it.


Originally posted by jetxnet
It's so funny when Obamatrons use Obama's personal Campaign site to site facts.

He has total control of this information (on his Campaign site)!

Give an unbiased source with credibility to show the details. The State Dept. website would be good.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

So according to you, your own website is based on a bunch of lies as well.

I couldn't make this stuff up.



posted on Jun, 13 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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Well I had the day off of work today, so I thought I would take some time and try to come up with this outrageous amount of 1.7 trillion dollars for Obama’s Universal Health Care and Global Poverty Act.

From the opening post jetxnet stated:


Yes, that is the cost so far (874 Billion) assessed for Obama's plans for Universal Healthcare and the Global Poverty Act.

OK, so $874b for both UHC and GPA, right? No…he later says:


That's just Healthcare, now move on to solving the World's Hunger problem with American Taxpayers' money (another 800 Billion+$).

Hmm.. so another $800b for World Hunger… as in the GPA? Now I am confused.

Regardless, if you add $874b and $800b you get the $1.674t or $1.7 trillion dollars as stated in the title of this thread. But is it real? Could Obama really want to spend half of what the government takes in every year in taxes? I didn’t think so, so I went to jetxnet’s website and started going through the list. The first one he lists is the Global Poverty Act. Here is the claim.


President Obama Signs $8500.00 Per Household Tax Into Law: Funds To Go To The United Nations To Combat Global Poverty!

He continues further to state the total cost of the GPA to be $845 billion, which is different than the $800b stated in the thread, but let’s not be too nit picky.


Some conservative leaders are already sounding the alarm and telling us that, if passed, Barack Hussein Obama's Global Poverty Act will commit us to a stealth United Nations-inspired global tax of $845 Billion dollars... that comes to approximately an $8500.00 tax burden for every household in the United States!

www.dontvoteobama.net...

To check his claim of $8,500 dollars per household, lets start with the number of households.


The number of households in the United States is projected to increase during the next 15 years, reaching 103 million by the turn of the century and almost 115 million by 2010.

Projections of the Number of Households and Families in the United States: 1995 to 2010

So I’m going to use the number 115 million for the number of households.

$845b / 115m = $7,347 per household

OK, $7,347 is not that far away from $8,500. That’s not too bad, except that just as in this thread, he fails to mention that this was the cost over 13 years. Also to make more sense, he should have used the number of taxpayers instead of households, which according to CNN there are 117 million taxpayers, but that is pretty close to 115 million households, so OK we don’t want to be too nit picky..

Now I will use these numbers to come up with how much each taxpayer will pay per year if the Global Poverty Act were to pass as is.

$845b / 13 years = $65 billion per year

$65b / 117m taxpayers = $555.00 for each taxpayer per year for the GPA.

That is a far cry from the misleading $8,500 as claimed on the website.

Next item on the list after the cool graphic and the Obama Spend-o-meter was the claim:


OBAMA'S LIBERAL FISCAL AGENDA: OVER $850 BILLION IN NEW SPENDING

This is backed up with the following statement:


If Obama Could Enact All Of His Campaign Proposals, Taxpayers Would Be Faced With Financing Over $850 Billion In New Spending Over One White House Term:

www.dontvoteobama.net...


Now wait a minute… wasn’t the claim in this thread of $1.7 trillion dollars for only the UHC and GPA? You didn’t mention that there are all these other programs that are being included in this $850b. Well no wonder it is a staggering amount…or is it?

Part of this $850b was the now famous Universal Health Care (UHC). The claim:


Obama's Health Care Plan Will Cost Up To $65 Billion A Year; Equal To $260 Billion Over Four Years."

This is the same quote as in the opening post, which was quoted from Obama’s website (still chuckling about that).

Next was the Energy Plan:


Obama's Energy Plan Will Cost $150 Billion Over 10 Years, Equal To 15 Billion Annually And $60 Billion Over Four Years.

Then came the Tax Plan:


Obama's Tax Plan Will Cost Approximately $85 Billion A Year; Equal To $340 Billion Over Four Years.

Now wait a second… Obama’s Tax Plan is a tax CUT, not an expenditure, but that’s OK, we don’t want to be too nit picky.

Next was the Economic Stimulus Plan:


Obama's Economic Stimulus Package Will Cost $75 Billion.

Now the Education Plan:


Obama's Early Education And K-12 Package Will Cost $18 Billion A Year; Equal To $72 Billion Over Four Years.

The Service Plan:


Obama's National Service Plan Will Cost $3.5 Billion A Year; Equal To $14 Billion Over Four Years.

Foreign Assistance:


Obama Will Increase Our Foreign Assistance Funding By $25 Billion.

Now wait a minute…aren’t we already going to have a Global Poverty Plan? That is foreign assistance isn’t it? I would look into seeing if the GPA is replacing this other plan, but that is OK, we don’t want to be too nit picky.


Obama Will Provide $2 Billion To Aid Iraqi Refugees.

Oh! The horror! Spending 2 billion dollars for aid to refugees of the country that we destroyed. Blasphemy!


Obama Will Provide $1.5 Billion To Help States Adopt Paid-Leave Systems.

The shame. We wouldn’t want employers to pay women while they are on maternity leave, now do we?


Obama Will Provide $1 Billion Over 5 Years For Transitional Jobs And Career Pathway Programs, Equal To $200 Million A Year And $800Million Over Four Years.

Ahem… Is it four years or five? That’s OK, we don’t want to be too nit picky.


Obama Will Provide $50 Million To Jump-Start The Creation Of An IAEA-Controlled Nuclear Fuel Bank.

NO… We can’t have a bank to stop non-proliferation of nuclear weapons. We just blow up countries when they are close to getting them (at least when we think they are close).

That is a long list, so let’s see what this all adds up to.

UHC Plan $260b
Energy Plan $150b
Tax Plan $340b
Eco Stimulus Plan $75b
Education Plan $72b
Service Plan $14b
Foreign Assistance $25b
Iraqi Refugees $2b
Paid Leave $1.5b
Job Transition $1b
Nuclear Fuel Bank $0.5b

That comes up to $941 billion.

But that can’t be right because the claim is $850 billion. More confusion. Maybe jetxnet didn’t add that tax cut like I thought he might have.

Without the tax cut added in that comes to $601 billion dollars. Hmm.. that still doesn’t match the $850b, and is lower than his claim. I don’t know. I can’t figure it out.

That is still a lot of money, but you have to keep in mind that this total is what each program will cost over time, which I feel the author was leaving out on purpose in order to mislead everyone. That is something we don’t take kindly here at ATS. We prefer to have the facts and when making a claim the author should present it in a way that is easy to understand and is verifiable.

Furthermore, just because these programs are proposed, doesn’t mean that they will be accepted as is. Barak Obama will be the next president, but he will not be a dictator. Everything has to go through the legislative process.

The opening post in this thread is a good example of what not to do. If you are going to make a claim, back it up with reliable sources and present it in a clear manner. It also helps to use spell checking and good grammar. The more intelligent looking the presentation is the more others will respect it. I don’t mind some mistakes, after all we wouldn’t want to be too nit picky.

[edit on 6/13/2008 by Hal9000]



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by Hal9000
 


Bravo Hal9000.
Its amazing what google searching and education can bring to light. Starred



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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Stop using Google because everyone else does. Use Yahoo, it is (or started) with the same engine and has nearly the same identical returns search for search, but has better features then Google.

Hal9000, you put together alot of BS, quit trying to twist the numbers.

Here is the correct analysis, amount for amount, plan for plan. Each plan with these amounts can be found on Obama's website.

So, in addition to the numbers below, add another 8 billion for the Global Poverty act spanning 8-10 years. Adding the two amounts together brings you to over 1.7 Trillion:

*************************************

Obama's Health Care Plan Will Cost Up To $65 Billion A Year; Equal To $260 Billion Over Four Years."[Obama] campaign officials estimated that the net cost of the plan to the federal government would be $50 billion to $65 billion a year, when fully phased in, and said the revenues from rolling back the tax cuts were enough to cover it." (Robin Toner and Patrick Healy, "Obama Calls For Wider And Less Costly Health Care Coverage," The New York Times, 5/30/07)


Obama's Energy Plan Will Cost $150 Billion Over 10 Years, Equal To 15 Billion Annually And $60 Billion Over Four Years."Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of bio fuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial-scale renewable energy, invest in low-emissions coal plants, and begin the transition to a new digital electricity grid." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 25)


Obama's Tax Plan Will Cost Approximately $85 Billion A Year; Equal To $340 Billion Over Four Years."[Obama's] proposed tax cuts and credits, aimed at workers earning$50,000 or less per year, would cost the Treasury an estimated $85billion annually." (Margaret Talev, "Obama Proposes Tax Code Overhaul To Help The Poor," McClatchy Newspapers, 9/19/07)

Obama's Plan Would Raise Taxes On Capital Gains And Dividends, And On Carried Interest. Obama's tax plan includes: "Increasing the highest bracket for capital gains and dividends and closing the carried interest loophole." (Obama For America, "Barack Obama: Tax Fairness For The Middle Class," Fact Sheet, www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/8/08)


Obama's Economic Stimulus Package Will Cost $75 Billion."Barack Obama's economic plan will inject $75 billion of stimulus into the economy by getting money in the form of tax cuts and direct spending directly to the people who need it most." (Obama For America, "Barack Obama's Plan To Stimulate The Economy," Fact Sheet, www.barackobama.com, 1/13/08)


Obama's Early Education And K-12 Package Will Cost $18 Billion A Year; Equal To $72 Billion Over Four Years."Barack Obama's early education and K-12 plan package costs about $18billion per year." (Obama For America, "Barack Obama's Plan For Lifetime Success Through Education," Fact Sheet, www.barackobama.com, 11/20/07, p. 15)


Obama's National Service Plan Will Cost $3.5 Billion A Year; Equal To $14 Billion Over Four Years."Barack Obama's national service plan will cost about $3.5 billion per year when it is fully implemented." (Obama For America, "Helping All Americans Serve Their Country: Barack Obama's Plan For Universal Voluntary Citizen Service," Fact Sheet, www.barackobama.com, 12/5/07)


Obama Will Increase Our Foreign Assistance Funding By $25 Billion."Obama will embrace the Millennium Development Goal of cutting extreme poverty around the world in half by 2015, and he will double our foreign assistance to $50 billion to achieve that goal." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 53)


Obama Will Provide $2 Billion To Aid Iraqi Refugees."He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find a safe-haven." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 51)


Obama Will Provide $1.5 Billion To Help States Adopt Paid-Leave Systems."As president, Obama will initiate a strategy to encourage all 50states to adopt paid-leave systems. Obama will provide a $1.5 billion fund to assist states with start-up costs and to help states offset the costs for employees and employers." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 15)

Obama Will Provide $1 Billion Over 5 Years For Transitional Jobs And Career Pathway Programs, Equal To $200 Million A Year And $800Million Over Four Years. "Obama will invest $1 billion over five years in transitional jobs and career pathway programs that implement proven methods of helping low-income Americans succeed in the workforce." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 42)

Obama Will Provide $50 Million To Jump-Start The Creation Of An IAEA-Controlled Nuclear Fuel Bank. Obama:"We must also stop the spread of nuclear weapons technology and ensure that countries cannot build -- or come to the brink of building -- a weapons program under the auspices of developing peaceful nuclear power. That is why my administration will immediately provide $50million to jump-start the creation of an International Atomic Energy Agency-controlled nuclear fuel bank and work to update the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty." (Sen. Barack Obama, "Renewing American Leadership," Foreign Affairs, 7-8/07)




[edit on 16-6-2008 by jetxnet]



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by jetxnet
 


google is better because i dont have to put up with 100,000,000 advertisements. The front page loads faster because its not full of crap i could care less about, and the search engine results pop up in a much more user friendly manner. If "everyone else is using it" its because its a good tool to use. Sorry you can't be of the same opnion.

Secondly - you already posted this non-sense in another page. And i say again "you complain that Obama wants to spend our money on UHC and global poverty (to name a few) which are things that help PEOPLE of this country and the world. What would you have him spend it on? More pork like your precious McCain?"

Give it a rest man.
I will give you credit, atleast you're using facts to support your claim, unlike other "anti-obama" robots in this forum. I agree that he's going to be spending a lot of money on these issues, but they're issues that have to be dealt with. its certainly better than giving some cattle farmer a bunch of money because he contributed to your campaign. *IMO*



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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First of all, why didn't you explain to everyone that the $1.7 trillion also included all these other programs?

Why didn't you explain to everyone that these plans were over time?



Originally posted by jetxnet
Hal9000, you put together alot of BS, quit trying to twist the numbers.

I did try twisting as well as standing on my head and no matter how I looked at it, it didn't add up. Why do you think I asked for more information?



Here is the correct analysis, amount for amount, plan for plan. Each plan with these amounts can be found on Obama's website.

Yes the same website you made fun of someone else using that I pointed out in a previous post.



So, in addition to the numbers below, add another 8 billion for the Global Poverty act spanning 8-10 years. Adding the two amounts together brings you to over 1.7 Trillion:

You do mean $800 billion, right? Or is it the $850 Billion?

I didn't have a problem adding those two to get $1.7 trillion, I could not see how you came up with the $800 billion. I came up with $601 billion unless you added more programs to your list.

Also how did you come up with the $8,500 per household, in this claim?


President Obama Signs $8500.00 Per Household Tax Into Law: Funds To Go To The United Nations To Combat Global Poverty!

Was that for everything? Did you forget that it was over 13 years?

You can accuse me of twisting numbers and call BS all you want, I don't care. What bothers me is I don't think you were being honest in your opening post by leaving out all this other information. You were clearly distorting the truth and directing people to your website, which is against T&C. Even if you can explain it clearly now, no one is going to believe you.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by jetxnet
 


another ~ 1 billion per year to fight global poverty


we spend more than that in this country on singular porkbarrel projects alone in one year.

1 billion dollars is a lot to you and me as individuals. For a government the size of the U.S. its not jack squat. And its certainly better than paying for some rich punk oil tycoon to have his swimmign pool lined with gold.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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All this talk about 1.7 trillion for this and only 999 bilizillion for that…

The simple truth is we cannot pay for what we are spending NOW. Social Security is going to go bankrupt. Medicare is going to go bankrupt. The whole Country is going bankrupt!

Spending MORE is not the solution. You don’t need to be a C.P.A. to understand the simple concept that if you continually spend more money than you bring in you will go broke.

So go ahead. Play with your little estimates and projections ( and we all know what THOSE are worth). The fact is we cannot continue to spend like this and both Obama and McCain are both selling you a bill of goods. Neither one has bothered to really explain where all this money is going to come from. Sure, they both propose getting it through taxes - but that’s like promising “I’ll pay you when I find gold in them thar hills!”

So go ahead. Crunch all the imaginary numbers you want and argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin while you're at it. We can’t afford what we already owe and certainly can’t afford this new burden.


[edit on 16-6-2008 by passenger]



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by passenger
 

I agree with you, but I also noticed that you didn't mention who is to blame for the current condition.

If you all want to save money, then the largest expenditure we have is the Iraq war. Obama wants to end the war and bring our troops home, while McCain wants to keep them there indefinitely. Why doesn't anyone complain about that?

I guess we can count on you voting for Obama, if you want to reduce spending.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Hal9000
If you all want to save money, then the largest expenditure we have is the Iraq war… I guess we can count on you voting for Obama, if you want to reduce spending.


According to the Congressional Budget Office, “Social Service” ( e.g. Medicare, Social Security, Food Stamps, etc) outlays are approximately $1.5 trillion for 2008. The War in Iraq/Afghanistan will cost about $600 billion. Both numbers are too high. I don’t want either one of these clowns taking more of my money for either of their pet projects. I want this war ended as soon as possible.

Sticking with the issue of Obama’s plan though; Social Services, with Medicare and Social Security being the two largest components, eat up half of our budget and they continue to increase, both as a gross amount and a percentage of spending. These programs are going insolvent. Now Obama wants to stack another ponderous expense on top of that rickety structure. All that will serve to do is to bring the existing programs crashing down even earlier.

The other dirty little secret is that, when you look at the budget projections, it assumes that there are going to be regular, steady increases in the amount of GNP and tax revenue available. That’s reaalllly bad planning, especially in view of the fact that we are/will be heading for a recession. A major turndown in the economy means that direct Federal revenue may actually shrink in the coming years - despite attempts to increase tax rates.
So again, basic economics: If you make less money and increase your spending you will CRASH. Obama’s plan is only going to make us crash harder and faster.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by passenger
According to the Congressional Budget Office, “Social Service” ( e.g. Medicare, Social Security, Food Stamps, etc) outlays are approximately $1.5 trillion for 2008.

Is it really that much? The government takes in around $2.5 trillion last I checked. That would be 60% of the income. I'm at work, so don't have time to research. If you have a link, that would be great.



The War in Iraq/Afghanistan will cost about $600 billion. Both numbers are too high. I don’t want either one of these clowns taking more of my money for either of their pet projects. I want this war ended as soon as possible.

I agree.



So again, basic economics: If you make less money and increase your spending you will CRASH. Obama’s plan is only going to make us crash harder and faster.

I also agree with this, but what I keep trying to point out is that these are proposed plans, and IF they actually make it through the legislative process, he will not get even half of these proposals. That is why I am not worried about it.

I do think that we need health care reform though. I think that would be a wise investment and reduce health care costs for everyone. I don't think Obama has the perfect plan, but this is one campaign promise I would like to see him keep.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by Hal9000
Is it really that much? I'm at work, so don't have time to research. If you have a link, that would be great.


www.cbo.gov...
(Click on the PDF link to get the printout)

Also, please note the projection columns. As I stated, they project steady increases of wealth for the foreseeable future. That’s totally irresponsible financial planning. Oh wait! I forgot! The Government doesn’t have to plan responsibly. Unlike a private business, if they run out of cash they just make people give them more! No need to be fiscally responsible. It’s amazing how the Government considers it a serious issue to abuse fiduciary responsibilities for individuals. You can be held criminally and civilly liable for failure to do so. However, when it comes to them, they can be as profligate as they want with no penalties applicable. But sooner or later it will catch up with them, it has to. It will.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by passenger
 

Sweet. The Congressional Budget Office. Straight from the horses mouth.

Thanks, much.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by passenger
 

Sweet. The Congressional Budget Office. Straight from the horses mouth.

Thanks, much.



You’re welcome! But I have to say that I think these numbers came from the other end of the horse.

Like I said, they’re just projections a.k.a. imaginary numbers. And imaginary numbers with a rosy tint as well. I for one can’t think of a big Federal program that comes in under-budget, on-time and with minimal waste and corruption. The Health Care plan should follow that same blueprint.

I should say that I am not saying it wouldn’t be nice if we could all have free health care, schooling, etc. I’m just saying that there is no way we can pay for this forever. It’s like if you went out ( I’m assuming you’re of average means here) and bought a Rolls Royce and Rolexes and a gold toilet-seat. You may want them and you might even be able to get them for a time if you flanagle things. But sooner or later the bills will come due. Sooner or later you will have to pay. The Government can’t play this game forever. Obama is saying, “Hey, how about a diamond studded toothbrush to go with that toilet seat!”





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