Reparations for slavery is just a rip off. In this world's history, all people have at one time or another lived in slavery. Slavery is still practised in Africa, by Africans against Africans.
The slaves who came here worked as hard as anyone to build this country and now their descendants are living here, enjoying the benefits of not only their enslaved ancestors but the whites, mexicans, chinese and others that had a hand in building this nation.
I would say yes to reparations if those who accept it move to Africa with no return. If we give them back pay as migrant laborers, they should go home when the job is done. It's done now and they have become a nuisance rather than an asset.

The deficit don't mean jack .. it has been going up on average 1 to 2 Trillion a year per administration and this is not going to change.

Russia and dozens of other countries owe the US money that they'll never pay back.

The American Dollar won't be around too much longer, so any bonds in that currency will have to be switched or dropped.

Bottom line, Obama is going to tax you bigtime to pay for all this stuff in solving the world's problems. It isn't going to solve anything, your money will just get abused more than it ever has by the government.

These higher taxes aren't going to improve Africa's problems, nor is the US responsibility to do so. The ruling militias for governments in Africa just take the money and use as they wish, and it sure as hell isn't for the people. Your money went for a supposedly good cause, but got intercepted. It is always intercepted and redirected accordingly, out of your control.

You should want to keep your hard-earned money and support your family directly, not let the highly dsyfunctional government do it, especially with Obama at the reigns.



[edit on 12-6-2008 by jetxnet]

Originally posted by tdubz
so biggie smalls, maybe im just misunderstanding the information you posted. but after reading it, it sounds like the mccain plan will save taxpayers 3.7 trillion, while the obama will only save 2.7 trillion.

saving over a trillion dollars over another plan for the people of america sounds like the way to go to me.

That is partially right. "Saving" taxpayers money is really a misnomer though. While Obama may raise taxes, (on the rich mainly) it appears he does not want to BORROW money from foreign countries as McCain does want to do.

This is a bait and switch deal. McCain's plan seems to save taxpayers a whopping $1 trillion, but it mentions nothing about the deficit. McCain would like Americans to think he is saving us all money, but in all actuality he is getting it from somewhere else, which HAS to be paid back at some point. And guess where it comes from? China. China now owns our national debt, which means it owns our currency.

You won't hear that on Faux News.

The money is not going to come out of thin air in either case. One plan involves somewhat higher taxes and the other involves borrowing more money.

How much money either candidate will spend/borrow/tax is yet to be decided as the executive branch does not make law; that's the legislative branch's job. So really no matter what either candidate says, it is up to those in the legislative branch to formulate the law.

Stop using Google because everyone else does. Use Yahoo, it is (or started) with the same engine and has nearly the same identical returns search for search, but has better features then Google.

Hal9000, you put together alot of BS, quit trying to twist the numbers.

Here is the correct analysis, amount for amount, plan for plan. Each plan with these amounts can be found on Obama's website.

So, in addition to the numbers below, add another 8 billion for the Global Poverty act spanning 8-10 years. Adding the two amounts together brings you to over 1.7 Trillion:

*************************************

Obama's Health Care Plan Will Cost Up To $65 Billion A Year; Equal To $260 Billion Over Four Years."[Obama] campaign officials estimated that the net cost of the plan to the federal government would be $50 billion to $65 billion a year, when fully phased in, and said the revenues from rolling back the tax cuts were enough to cover it." (Robin Toner and Patrick Healy, "Obama Calls For Wider And Less Costly Health Care Coverage," The New York Times, 5/30/07)


Obama's Energy Plan Will Cost $150 Billion Over 10 Years, Equal To 15 Billion Annually And $60 Billion Over Four Years."Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of bio fuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial-scale renewable energy, invest in low-emissions coal plants, and begin the transition to a new digital electricity grid." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 25)


Obama's Tax Plan Will Cost Approximately $85 Billion A Year; Equal To $340 Billion Over Four Years."[Obama's] proposed tax cuts and credits, aimed at workers earning$50,000 or less per year, would cost the Treasury an estimated $85billion annually." (Margaret Talev, "Obama Proposes Tax Code Overhaul To Help The Poor," McClatchy Newspapers, 9/19/07)

Obama's Plan Would Raise Taxes On Capital Gains And Dividends, And On Carried Interest. Obama's tax plan includes: "Increasing the highest bracket for capital gains and dividends and closing the carried interest loophole." (Obama For America, "Barack Obama: Tax Fairness For The Middle Class," Fact Sheet, www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/8/08)


Obama's Economic Stimulus Package Will Cost $75 Billion."Barack Obama's economic plan will inject $75 billion of stimulus into the economy by getting money in the form of tax cuts and direct spending directly to the people who need it most." (Obama For America, "Barack Obama's Plan To Stimulate The Economy," Fact Sheet, www.barackobama.com, 1/13/08)


Obama's Early Education And K-12 Package Will Cost $18 Billion A Year; Equal To $72 Billion Over Four Years."Barack Obama's early education and K-12 plan package costs about $18billion per year." (Obama For America, "Barack Obama's Plan For Lifetime Success Through Education," Fact Sheet, www.barackobama.com, 11/20/07, p. 15)


Obama's National Service Plan Will Cost $3.5 Billion A Year; Equal To $14 Billion Over Four Years."Barack Obama's national service plan will cost about $3.5 billion per year when it is fully implemented." (Obama For America, "Helping All Americans Serve Their Country: Barack Obama's Plan For Universal Voluntary Citizen Service," Fact Sheet, www.barackobama.com, 12/5/07)


Obama Will Increase Our Foreign Assistance Funding By $25 Billion."Obama will embrace the Millennium Development Goal of cutting extreme poverty around the world in half by 2015, and he will double our foreign assistance to $50 billion to achieve that goal." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 53)


Obama Will Provide $2 Billion To Aid Iraqi Refugees."He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find a safe-haven." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 51)


Obama Will Provide $1.5 Billion To Help States Adopt Paid-Leave Systems."As president, Obama will initiate a strategy to encourage all 50states to adopt paid-leave systems. Obama will provide a $1.5 billion fund to assist states with start-up costs and to help states offset the costs for employees and employers." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 15)

Obama Will Provide $1 Billion Over 5 Years For Transitional Jobs And Career Pathway Programs, Equal To $200 Million A Year And $800Million Over Four Years. "Obama will invest $1 billion over five years in transitional jobs and career pathway programs that implement proven methods of helping low-income Americans succeed in the workforce." (Obama For America, "The Blueprint For Change," www.barackobama.com, Accessed 1/14/08, p. 42)

Obama Will Provide $50 Million To Jump-Start The Creation Of An IAEA-Controlled Nuclear Fuel Bank. Obama:"We must also stop the spread of nuclear weapons technology and ensure that countries cannot build -- or come to the brink of building -- a weapons program under the auspices of developing peaceful nuclear power. That is why my administration will immediately provide $50million to jump-start the creation of an International Atomic Energy Agency-controlled nuclear fuel bank and work to update the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty." (Sen. Barack Obama, "Renewing American Leadership," Foreign Affairs, 7-8/07)




[edit on 16-6-2008 by jetxnet]

All this talk about 1.7 trillion for this and only 999 bilizillion for that…

The simple truth is we cannot pay for what we are spending NOW. Social Security is going to go bankrupt. Medicare is going to go bankrupt. The whole Country is going bankrupt!

Spending MORE is not the solution. You don’t need to be a C.P.A. to understand the simple concept that if you continually spend more money than you bring in you will go broke.

So go ahead. Play with your little estimates and projections ( and we all know what THOSE are worth). The fact is we cannot continue to spend like this and both Obama and McCain are both selling you a bill of goods. Neither one has bothered to really explain where all this money is going to come from. Sure, they both propose getting it through taxes - but that’s like promising “I’ll pay you when I find gold in them thar hills!”

So go ahead. Crunch all the imaginary numbers you want and argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin while you're at it. We can’t afford what we already owe and certainly can’t afford this new burden.


[edit on 16-6-2008 by passenger]

Originally posted by Hal9000
If you all want to save money, then the largest expenditure we have is the Iraq war… I guess we can count on you voting for Obama, if you want to reduce spending.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, “Social Service” ( e.g. Medicare, Social Security, Food Stamps, etc) outlays are approximately $1.5 trillion for 2008. The War in Iraq/Afghanistan will cost about $600 billion. Both numbers are too high. I don’t want either one of these clowns taking more of my money for either of their pet projects. I want this war ended as soon as possible.

Sticking with the issue of Obama’s plan though; Social Services, with Medicare and Social Security being the two largest components, eat up half of our budget and they continue to increase, both as a gross amount and a percentage of spending. These programs are going insolvent. Now Obama wants to stack another ponderous expense on top of that rickety structure. All that will serve to do is to bring the existing programs crashing down even earlier.

The other dirty little secret is that, when you look at the budget projections, it assumes that there are going to be regular, steady increases in the amount of GNP and tax revenue available. That’s reaalllly bad planning, especially in view of the fact that we are/will be heading for a recession. A major turndown in the economy means that direct Federal revenue may actually shrink in the coming years - despite attempts to increase tax rates.
So again, basic economics: If you make less money and increase your spending you will CRASH. Obama’s plan is only going to make us crash harder and faster.

Originally posted by passenger
According to the Congressional Budget Office, “Social Service” ( e.g. Medicare, Social Security, Food Stamps, etc) outlays are approximately $1.5 trillion for 2008.

Is it really that much? The government takes in around $2.5 trillion last I checked. That would be 60% of the income. I'm at work, so don't have time to research. If you have a link, that would be great.

The War in Iraq/Afghanistan will cost about $600 billion. Both numbers are too high. I don’t want either one of these clowns taking more of my money for either of their pet projects. I want this war ended as soon as possible.

I agree.

So again, basic economics: If you make less money and increase your spending you will CRASH. Obama’s plan is only going to make us crash harder and faster.

I also agree with this, but what I keep trying to point out is that these are proposed plans, and IF they actually make it through the legislative process, he will not get even half of these proposals. That is why I am not worried about it.

I do think that we need health care reform though. I think that would be a wise investment and reduce health care costs for everyone. I don't think Obama has the perfect plan, but this is one campaign promise I would like to see him keep.