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NOBama Nation: 1.7 Trillon required for Universal Healthcare AND Global Poverty Act

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posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by passenger
 


I agree, to some extent, with what you are saying

im curious if i may be able to pick your brain and see if you have any ideas as to what an answer would be to the problems we face in the country?




posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
im curious if i may be able to pick your brain and see if you have any ideas as to what an answer would be to the problems we face in the country?


My ideas are Libertarian ideas: You rise or fall on your own merit and the Government should do little to interfere with you either way.

This scares a lot of people today that are conditioned to screaming for the Federal Government to come save them at the first sign of trouble.

Libertarianism is somewhat Darwinist in outlook and a lot of people find that frightening. But that doesn’t mean you can’t get help when you need it – just don’t look for the Federal Government to solve all your woes. If you think about it, how much better could you be doing if you didn’t have all those burdens already placed upon you? If you are around thirty-something, you’re probably never going to see one dime of the money that the Government is taking off of you for Social Security. If you do see any return, it will be greatly diminished from what you potentially could have achieved on your own. Government Health Care will end the same way.

This country was not founded by people looking for Government to come in and solve their problems. Just the opposite, it was founded by people that wanted to get as far away from that kind of rule as possible because they had experienced it first hand. All those complaints in the Declaration of Independence and safeguards in the Constitution were put there by people that were fed up with their rulers imposing upon their lives. For example, the Third Amendment wasn’t just a good afterthought – it stemmed from people being fed up with the King, actually putting his troops into their homes without any ability for the owner to resist. We don’t have soldiers quartered in our homes today but think about how many other ways the Federal Government is there in various guises: Federal regulations on the food you eat, the water you drink, the bed you sleep on, the TV you watch, the radio you listen to, and so on.

Obama now wants to put them in the dentist chair with you and standing in the room while you get your bottom examined ( literally or metaphorically, I’m not sure yet).

What is your philosophy on this Mr. Wiggin?



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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I am seriously considering just saying f*** it, quit my job, stop paying taxes, maybe get me a shopping cart and a big old bottle of ripple and just being a bum. I mean, I am working 12-15 hour days now to survive and because of all of these damn taxes and the huge surges in cost of living it is all being taken away from me any how.


Seems like the smart thing to do would be to just stop trying all together and let the government and the rest of the working suckers out here pay for everything, and I can just get a free ride out of the deal like the rest of the low lifes out here who do nothing but wait for government hand outs.

I mean who is the REAL dummy here? The guy who spends his entire waking life working to pay taxes to support this socialist nightmare, or the degenerate who lives in government subsidized Section 8 housing that sits on his butt all day while racking up welfare checks and free health care?

I feel like I have been cheated. It is starting to seem like this is the only society in the free world where you are financially penalized for working hard and being responsible.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 

I hear what your saying. I've had plenty of people tell me the reason that they are against health care reform, is because of welfare. It is very common to think of welfare as a bunch of deadbeats spending our money, but it was reformed back in 1996. People that go on welfare, now have to be back to work in two years.


* Ending welfare as an entitlement program;
* Requiring recipients to begin working after 2 consecutive years of receiving benefits;
* Placing a lifetime limit of 5 years on benefits paid by federal funds;
* Aiming to encourage two-parent families and discouraging out-of-wedlock births.

Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act

The results were dramatic.


The consequences of welfare reform have been dramatic. As expected, welfare rolls (the number of people receiving payments) dropped significantly (57%) in the years since passage of the bill. Substantially larger declines in welfare rolls were posted by many states, and even big city-dominated Illinois achieved an 86% reduction in welfare recipients.

Welfare reform


People may still not believe in welfare, but it is not nearly as bad as it once was.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by Hal9000
 


Yes I can certainly appreciate the fact that the welfare programs have been reformed and now have a cap on the amount of time one can abuse its benefits. I even agree that there is a need for certain publically funded domestic aid programs that are designed to help people who are in dire straights and need help.

But any way you slice it, that money has to come from somewhere and it is usually taken from one persons pocket in order to support another who is in need. Basically you have to take from the haves in order to give to the have nots. I am not now nor have I ever been priveledged or well off.

The things I have now are a direct result of years of hard work and sacrifice, growing up my family had very little but never took a handout from anyone, government or otherwise, and I am openly resentful of able bodied people who abuse our system for their own gains.

I suppose what it boils down to is I am sick of being the one footing the bill, I am tired of being fleeced for 30% + of my income, being taxed at every turn and being sucked dry by a system that rewards failure and laziness by taking away my money in order to pay for all of this garbage.

Isn't it grand to be working/middle class? You get to be a work mule for both the wealthy AND the poor. If you are a younger person like myself with no kids and no dependants you may as well be working for damn near free once Uncle Sam gets through with you.

It is really getting old.

And you may hate me for being the one to say it, but when I think of free socialized health care in America only one image comes to mind. 20,000,000 illegal aliens running for our borders with a baby under each arm, looking for their pot of gold. It may sound insensitive or whatever, but I have no interest in paying for free health care for millions of foreign invaders who do not even pay taxes.

I can almost hear Neil Diamond's "Coming to America" playing in the back drop while hundreds of desperate illegals stampede across the border in slow motion. If you think we have issues on the border now, wait until the words FREE HEALTHCARE hit the wire.

One thing is certain, if I know anything about the federal government and the way they handle public services (DMV, IRS, ever been to a social security office?..blah) they will find a way to screw it up for everyone. People will be lining up to fly to second and third world Asian countries just to see a qualified M.D. by the time they are done. Look forward to a gigantic inefficient screw job.

NOTE: I generally try and stay positive, but today just isnt the day. Sorry for the rant.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 



*cough* Welcome to the real world. It has been like that in Europe for years.

I am sorry guys, but you in the US have no bloody idea what it is like to pay the prices and taxes we do in Europe. You have had it easy for too long IMO.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 

If they did extend the same health care benefits to illegal aliens with this reform, then I would also be against it. This has also been mentioned before, but I think that is a separate issue that also needs to be dealt with. As far as I know, they would not get it.

Just keep this in mind. If we do nothing, everything will remain the same.

And thanks for the graphic description of immigrants crossing our border. Now I've got that song stuck in my head.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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Mr. Obama would also now like to fund poor American's RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS.

WTF is all I can say... I am already packing my bags, this country is going down the s#er.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Hal9000
 




"Everywhere around the world.....they're comin' to American...duh duh..duh"


It would be funnier if it wasn't so freakin sad and true



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


They may be coming to America, but did you know EMIGRATION from the US is at the highest level ever recorded? It's the Middle Class. They are leaving. This country is great for the super rich, for the poor.. but if your a single male living on your own making GOOD money.. you would make it easier on your self to give it all up and head down to the food stamp office. I already pay more in taxes then 50 poor families combined, NOW I have to pay for THEIR health care, THEIR retirement and no doubt sooner or later some bleeding heart liberal will think they work to hard so I will have MY taxes raised to pay for THEIR trip to Disney World!

Like I said, I will take my business and my self else where, away from this God forsaken country..



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 




I can definately relate, we are certainly in the same boat when it comes to taxes and being robbed blind. I have seen the implosion coming here in America since back in the 90's. I have been seeing the trends developing for quite some time, it has come to a head and finally after years of wondering, we all see what path this country is heading in and it is not a good one.

Im sure there has been quite a bit of flight by middle class Americans who have decided to escape while they still had the chance, and I dont blame them. My only problem is, Where are you supposed to go? Seems like Europe is in it worse than we are, and I am seriously doubtful about moving to some third world developing nation. So where to next?

Eventually I could see all of the people who are leaving America and Europe will possibly find one country and move there in order to establish a new nation free from the tyranny that they were experiencing elsewhere. It will almost have to happen eventually. The US is no longer a melting pot, it is a powder keg that is set to errupt.

I love my country and I have serious issues with abandoning it and retreating to a foreign land. But it seems that ultimately it is almost inevitable and will likely be required in order to guarantee survival.

It is a real shame too, because I am old enough to still remember when this was a great country in which to live. Things sure have changed.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
NOW I have to pay for THEIR health care,


But you don't seem to have a problem paying for the uber rich's new jacuzzi, or set of golf clubs, or beemer.

Priorities homey, priorities.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Rasobasi420
 


Mmm.. and would you mind explaining how I helped the rich man buy his new golf clubs?



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


go.ucsusa.org...

Tax Benefits

Government directly subsidizes oil consumption through preferential treatment in tax codes. A multitude of federal corporate income tax credits and deductions results in an effective income tax rate of 11 percent for the oil industry, compared to the non-oil industry average of 18 percent. If the oil industry paid the industrywide average tax rate (including oil) of 17 percent, they would have paid an additional $2.0 billion in 1991.


Hmmm......2 billion goes to (drumroll) Golf Clubs for company execs!!!

www.cato.org...

During fiscal year 1996 (the last year for which full statistics are available), the government spent more than $7.9 billion to help U.S. companies secure just over $12 billion in agreements for new international arms sales. The annual $7.9 billion in subsidies includes taxpayer-backed loans, grants, and government promotional activities that help U.S. weapons makers sell their products to foreign customers.


Just a couple quick examples.


[edit on 17-6-2008 by Rasobasi420]



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by BlackOps719

I am seriously considering just saying f*** it, …and just being a bum. I mean, I am working 12-15 hour days now to survive and …it is all being taken away from me any how.

I mean who is the REAL dummy here? The guy who spends his entire waking life working …or the degenerate who lives in government subsidized Section 8 housing that sits on his butt all day while racking up welfare checks and free health care?

I feel like I have been cheated.


Thank You! Thank You BlackOps719!
This post made me laugh ‘til I almost cried ( in a Thank God I‘m not alone in going crazy kind of way) . I felt just these exact same sentiments today while driving home from the rat-race today. While doing so, I passed this slug, about twenty-something, with her FIVE kids towing behind, and a sixth one apparently on the way. She was headed into her Section 8 government provided housing. “I (we) are working to pay for THIS??!!!” my brain shrieked. “I can’t afford to have six kids! Why should this waste-of-flesh? Why shouldn’t I just do that!? Sit around and drink ripple while pumping out the brats and let some sucker (like BlackOPs719 or passenger) pay for them! I'm a real jack@$$ for going to work!”

We let them take the dream away and then throw it back in our faces. Hard work in this country used to be a source of reward and gained pride. Now it’s a self-defeating effort, squandered on parasites.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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I’m still waiting for an Obamaphile to answer the basic question of: How are we going to pay for this?

Seems he and his supporters love to come up with ideas.But when practical questions are asked, the facts don’t come forth. I suppose the notion that wishes and kisses will make the world a better place is too firmly entrenched in our culture now.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by passenger
 

Calling people "Obamaphile" is going to get you about as much response as you've had till now.

I don't know about the rest, but UHC was to be paid for by rolling back GB tax cuts. As for the rest, I don't know, but you could check his website.

But that's not going to satisfy you anyway, so why bother?



[edit on 6/20/2008 by Hal9000]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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You could easily pay for Universal Health Care. How about cutting back on spending on Defence for a starter.

Look at Universal Health Care as a ''Peace Dividend''.

And as for the Declaration of blah blah and the Constitution wasnt designed for this blah blah ........ well i say its a load of B******s anyway.

No country on this planet was designed to do anything. These things just evolve over time as different political parties or systems take over and have their say and do what they think is right at the time for its people.

The proposed Universal Health Care is just another part of the US's evolution. Get over it.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Wotan
You could easily pay for Universal Health Care. How about cutting back on spending on Defence for a starter.


No, we can’t. I am of the understanding that you are not a U.S. citizen, so it is understandable that you wouldn’t be readily familiar with the various issues regarding our national financial health. That’s fine. But the truth here is we already have two gigantic programs, i.e. Social Security and Medicare, that are going bankrupt already. That’s a fact. And it was a fact long before this war started. The projections on the red-line crossing date differ, but no credible analysis can establish that it will survive – at least not without massive cutbacks and/or massive tax increases. That’s with or without the current spending on the war.


Originally posted by Wotan
Look at Universal Health Care as a ''Peace Dividend''.


That’s a great sentiment. Should the United States have said: “Ahhh, let’s not spend all that money on bombs to fight Hitler – let’s just buy health care. That’ll make the world a better place!” Perhaps if there is another war there will be a greater need for Universal Health Care, because we’ll all be casualties because we couldn’t defend ourselves.



Originally posted by Wotan
And as for the Declaration of blah blah and the Constitution wasnt designed for this blah blah ........ well i say its a load of B******s anyway…No country on this planet was designed to do anything.


Again, not having been taught the essentials of our history and therefore excusable, this is wrong. This country WAS designed to do something. Maybe other nations have just evolved as a free floating process, but ours wasn’t.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union..”
If you research our founding, you’ll see that our nation was intended to be different, to follow a new path. It was created to abolish tyranny and ensure the rights of the individual from interference from the government. Universal Health Care is the antithesis of those ideals.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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Ref: The constitution.

How many years ago was that? Move on, dont live in the past. We are now in a totally different world.



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